Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by SamuraiK, Jun 26, 2012.
I am far from being a Kwan hater. I just defend Irina.
The last statement is true. I guess you are a big Michelle fan so you probably watched the whole performance with kiss and cry and everything. Then you should very well know about that: www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GkLbzBQitg#t=8m42s
Miuchelle's behaviour was totally understandable for me though. She felt heartbroken and didn't want to talk with journalists. Irina felt terrible after her loses at the Olympics and it's not surprising at all either.
The triple flip has been a problem for every bronze and silver medalist at the Olympics for the ladies since 1994 IMO.
For example: In 1994, Kerrigan doubled hers and Lulu put a hand down on hers.
In 1998, Kwan had an off landing on hers and Lulu stepped out of hers.
In 2002, Irina was way forward on hers and Kwan fell on it.
In 2006, Sasha stepped out of hers and Irina doubled hers.
In 2010, Mao underrotated hers and Joannie stepped out hers.
If Michelle declined an interview, then what was that link Triple Butz posted here?
Firstly she declined it but after calming down and catching a breath she agreed. Maybe she talked with her coach and/or family and they helped her calm down and suggested her being interviewed.
How do you know? Were you there? Maybe she was composing herself. Maybe she was taking a piss. Maybe she was blowing her nose. She did not decline an interview, she just wasn't ready to give one when the media wanted her to. For all you know, she fully intended to give one all along, just not at the moment Lesley Visser wanted.
What is it with that jump and the Olys? Not only the ladies, but that jump cost Kurt a lot in 94. Any other men?
Orser stepped out of his in Calgary FS, IIRC.
Lysacek doubled his short program flip in Turin, receiving just .7 for that element. By itself, full credit for a clean triple flip wouldn't close the gap between him and Jeffrey Buttle (7.46 points overall), but missing a jump element probably hurt his PCS slightly in that phase. In addition, missing the final group couldn't have helped his score in the free skate.
Maybe that's why Lepisto and Ando left it out of their free programs in 2010
^ Like Laura can even do a flip... Has anyone seen her do it before in practice?
Not to mention Slutskaya would probably have medalled in 1998 if she had landed her 3flip clean (she put her hand down and turned out of landing).
Interestingly, not even the OGMs had great 3flips. Baiul 2 footed hers in 1994, Hughes cheated hers in 2002, and Arakawa heavily lipped hers. Lipinski narrowly escaped fate in 1998 and fell on it first at Nationals 6 weeks earlier and Kim deferred her flip problems to Worlds 6 weeks later.
The good 3flips were all taken in 1992 when the top 5 in the free skate all landed great ones. The 2 year skip must have affected the 3flip karma.
I was thinking the same thing! If we want clean 3 flips in the top six, we have to move the olympics again to the "true" cycle.
In terms of the OGM, you are right, except that Tara's 3 flip was usually very good for her, including the one she did in Nagano in the LP. Sure, like you said, she fell on it at Nationals, but mostly it was a really great jump for her.
Here is an excellent one from the 1997-98 Champion Series (later Grand Prix) Final:
I have ever heard that 3F is a jump easy to make a mistake at a nervous situation.
Maybe a matter of the jump mechanism??
Wasn't Yagudin's 3F in 02 Oly non-perfect as well?
I've been saying for years that while the lutz might be harder to _learn_, the flip is probably harder to _do_ in high stakes competition.
A couple of years ago someone did some counting and concluded that the flip has a significantly higher failure rate in competition than does the lutz.
I think it's probably because the flip requires trickier timing and is less forgiving of mistakes than the lutz.
One might presume that the ISU have a stastician or two around to tweak the point values based on this kind of idea. But I'm afraid one would be terribly disappointed....
Losing one's cool because they did not peform as well as they wanted to after an important competition is totally understandable and that interview of Michelle is just heartbreaking. (Though of course, if that disappointment is turned to b****ing about other skaters, I do wonder about that person's integrity.)
For me, the kind of behavior that diminishes the skater as an athlete (as someone who is supposed to have sportsmanship) is when they e.g., glare at a rival throughout their official practice to unsettle them (like Katerina Witt was meant to have done) or purposefully get in their way during practice.
A far more reprehensible behavior is when a skater makes a false allegation that other skaters got in THEIR way during official practice. That's just totally out of order and fills me with disgust.
Yes... it was clean, but he had to will himself not to put a hand down.
Another example: Plushenko doubled his flip in Torino!
I'm not chiming in to pass judgment in any direction, but to point out a fact: Terry Gannon said on the ABC video that was linked: "And Michelle Kwan backstage... we tried to get her for an interview, she has declined..."
What's all this criticism on Irina for showing privately how she really felt. How can anyone truly criticize someone for being emotionally honest and invested in what they do. If I had worked so hard for so long and for something I so wanted and failed, I'd reserve the right to bawling my eyes out and even throw a tantrum or two in my private locker room without judgement. There's nothing right or wrong about it. Nobody can truly understand it unless they have walked in their shoes (or skates in this case). I am curious of those who are s readily handing out criticisms, have they ever worked so hard for something so long and failed before? If so, maybe a little understanding and empathy are in order.
I personally think it is a cultural indifference. Some Russians to my mind are very emotionally honest and passionate people. They feel everything and they are unafraid to externalize it. Certain people however really are too obsessed with the appearance of political correctness. These self-appointed guardian of good behaviour/good sportsmanship which are just nicer kinder words for false pretences. It doesn't mean the feelings are not there. They are just better at self-anethesia it.
Like it or not, competitive figure skating are not always about niceties and fairness, that is a fact. These skaters trains for years busting their blood, guts, suffering for a sport that is constantly marked by certain political trickery and influences that are far too hush hush. One does not survive by being nice and sweet about it whatever the media say. That is another reason of my appreciation of Johhny Weir and understand why he feel Russian at times. He is one of the few skaters unafraid to show how he feel, speak up for himself and being unafraid of being un-pc about it. No wonder it made him very unpopular with certain people.
My vote goes to Shizuka on the other hand. I think she is a beautiful skater with insane ina bauer, but I watch skating for fully realized programs and performances more than individual skills and (maybe) even medals. Lulu provided me with unforgettable programs that lasts to an eternity, so she get to stay.
Go back and read the thread.
She isn't being criticized for what she did privately. She's being criticized for what she did in public, including, in some instances, inside the arena itself.
I guess we have a different definition. I consider off the ice and KnC would be her private time. These days with cameras everywhere, people on mobile/twitter, there doesn't appear to be any privacy anymore, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist in theory. In anycase, I still don't think it is anything unsports man like. She is just being angry to herself. I seem to recall she and Michelle remained good friends. Maybe they relate to each other with the ups and downs they went through.
Really? I just got a chill. lol
Unsportsmanlike wherever there are other athletes, coaches, officials, or the like is not, and should not be considered private, regardless of whether the general public is also privy to the event. In Slutskaya's case, some of the instances were reportedly in full-view of the audience or in media interviews, so your point about "private time" is moot in any event.
And left it out completely in Vancouver. If he had subbed his 2a with a 3f instead, it may have helped him edge Lysacek...
Plushenko skated stupid as heck in Vancouver. I wish he had lost before the Olympics, I think he needed a wake up call. I wasnt rooting for either Plushenko or Lysacek to win in Vancouver, but Plushenko would have been the lesser of the two evils.
Or he might have stumbled. Either way the result might have been less ... contentious.
They should have just given three silver medals or three bronze medals anyway. Nobody deserved the gold. Takahashi was the only great skater that night, but had glaring mistakes, but was still way underscored compared to Plushenko and Lysacek. Takahashi cant beat subpar Plushenko or quadless boring Evan with one fall, and in fact loses by over 10 points, but good Takahashi cant beat Chan with 3 or 4 falls. No wonder almost nobody over here watches figure skating anymore.
so... we've gone from Lepisto attempting a flutz, to the history of flips at the Olys, to Evan's quadless victory... is there any more proof needed that 5 days is still too long for the next round in these polls?
The polls go on way too long. It was evident 4 days ago Shizuka was gone, Chen would survive.
Yeah, make the polls only 3 days long.
If Plushy just did a three jump combo in Vancouver, he would have won gold. His cockiness combined with his watered downed content (even in the footwork sequences and his spins) really hurt him in Vancouver.
It is a fact that Terry said that, but not a fact that she declined an interview, because she gave one to Lesley Visser a few minutes later. She may have declined to give one at the moment they first asked her, maybe because she was busy doing other things, but when she was ready, she gave the requested interview.
Right. The interview happened, so the "delayed" would be the appropriate word. Not declined.
But isn't it pretty standard for the team to be interviewed together? I seem to recall that set up after other Nationals.
So unless Terry Gannon is a liar / mistaken, she declined to be on camera with Tara and Nicole while Leslie interviewed them. I got the impression that was what she declined.
It looks like her interview with Leslie was subsequent to the interview with Tara and Nicole. In that interview, Michelle still seems to be very emotional, so I think that group interview was declined because she didn't feel physically able to keep it together?
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