Figure Skating Champions SURVIVOR: Ladies ROUND 7

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by SamuraiK, Jun 26, 2012.

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Who is the weakest link among these past champions

Poll closed Jul 1, 2012.
  1. Lu Chen

    79 vote(s)
    27.6%
  2. Michelle Kwan

    18 vote(s)
    6.3%
  3. Irina Slutskaya

    25 vote(s)
    8.7%
  4. Shizuka Arakawa

    116 vote(s)
    40.6%
  5. Mao Asada

    35 vote(s)
    12.2%
  6. Yuna Kim

    13 vote(s)
    4.5%
  1. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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    Half the skaters that began the fight are gone now.. We move on the second half of the game. Only the really strong skaters reaming. But first we have to say goodbye to the youngest champion of all..

    7th PLACE: TARA LIPINSKI (37.15% of votes)

    The remaining contenders are:

    Some Grand Prix Final Links (except for Lulu) this time.
    01. Lu Chen - CHN - 1995 World Champion.
    02. Michelle Kwan - USA - 1996,1998,2000,2001 and 2003 World Champion.
    03. Irina Slutskaya - RUS - 2002 and 2005 World Champion.
    04. Shizuka Arakawa - JPN - 2004 World and 2006 Olympic Champion.
    05. Mao Asada - JPN - 2008 and 2010 World Champion.
    06. Yuna Kim - KOR - 2009 World and 2010 Olympic Champion.

    Already eliminated:
    08th Place - Carolina Kostner (41.39% votes)
    09th Place - Maria Butyrskaya (32.67% votes)
    10th Place - Miki Ando (24.90% votes)
    11th place - Sarah Hughes (53.06% votes)
    12th place - Kimmie Meissner (50.26% votes)

    Vote and discuss..;)
  2. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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    Torn between Lulu and Shiz. But voted for Chen. They're both preety equal but Arakawa has the OGM edge and really paved the way for skating boom in Japan while its been almost 20 years since a good chinese lady.
  3. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Li Zijun and Zhang Kexin are coming! :cheer:

    I definitely admit bias but I am open to consider voting for Slutskaya or even Asada before Chen. I just remember more memorable performances from Chen than from Slutskaya and Asada.
  4. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Chen and Arakawa both should not have outsurvived Lipinski, and neither are in the league of the other 4 women on this list.
  5. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    I would pick Arakawa or Asada.
    They both were very inconsistent, and made livings off of big tricks they rarely delivered cleanly, i.e. triple-triple for Arakawa and 3A for Asada.
    Another thing they had in common was getting inflated 2nd mark through their Tarasova choreographed shit programs despite being seriously lacking in artistry.
  6. gingercrush

    gingercrush New Member

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    Lu Chen to go. Asada has two World Championships, same for Slutskaya. Kim and Arakawa have World Championship and Olympic Gold and no matter how much I dislike her, Kwan isn't going anywhere. Chen is the odd one out even if she was fab.

    And Asada has pulled off Triple Axels numerous times and in combination. She has also performed Triple-triple combinations and have had them ratified under the tougher rule changes. And she has done numerous good choreographed and memorable performances. For me I loved Chopin's Nocturne No.2. I only wish she could have been clean in the SP at worlds. Claire De Lune at WTT was really good too. She always seemed to be a better SP skater than a LP skater. I really liked Fantasie Impromptu. The Nutcracker was good too. I've been really out of the loop post Olympics though.

    And o.o she is the only skater to have beaten Kim in Kim's peak years of 2008-2009 and 2009-2010 seasons.
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012
  7. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    You've got to be kidding. If she had been such a superb short program skater, why don't I remeber her being 1st after SP at the worlds?

    As for 3A, I don't remember her landing a clean one these several years. Sure, she had some of them ratified, but for me at least, rotations were questionable at best. Only clean attempts that I remeber are those done when she was a little girl circa 2005-2006. Miss Asada has been living off her past junior performances for too long. She shouldn't talk about or attempt 3A she just can't land.

    Lastly, when was the last time she landed a clean triple-triple? After 2007 Worlds, ISU got tough on underrotations and that was pretty much end of receiving free points with underrotated jumps for her.
  8. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Been waiting for the next round. It is getting exciting now.
  9. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    Goodbye Lulu... about time
  10. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Really too difficult.
    I like Lu Chen and Shizuka Arakawa's skating.
    I don't like Irina Slutskaya's style, nor Mao's technique.
    But if I try to be objective, Shizuka is probably the weakest in competition. Even 2004 Worlds, her jumps were under-rotated.
  11. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    I haven't voted here yet. I will toss in my vote with the last two standing. I will vote fairly ;) but interesting to see which lady have more ubers and hatezzz dominating FSU. :p
  12. robinhood

    robinhood Active Member

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    from that list, the one I enjoyed the least is Kwan. She had wonderful choreography up to 98-99 but then she played it very safely IMO...every program looked kind-of the same, I feel. Anyway she's the most decorated skater, so I'll understand she wins this game. For me, even though she was very musical I never felt truly connected with her skating, and I can't point out what it was
    Anyway, probably it's between Chen and Arakawa if I'm objective. Arakawa is totally my fave skater, but her accomplishments and consistency are lacking in comparison. Chen was a gorgeous sublime skater, somewhat underscored in the beginning of her career and probably the most artistic skater left here.
    I'll have to wait and ponder this one...it's tough
  13. galaxy

    galaxy Active Member

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    So some people want to make Arakawa go before anyone else.:rolleyes:
    This is quite a poll, indeed.

    Maybe these people have personal bias against her (each in their own different ways) picking her on details , ignoring her great qualities and abilities that deserved her World title and OGM, and her great presence and magnificence on the ice as a champion. Is it because she is one of the two who have OGM among the list ? Or maybe I should refrain myself from saying this, but maybe because she is the first skater from Asia who won OGM?
    And I must add that I think people who say Arakawa is boring and not so great are ones who have had almost no opportunities to see her skating live or ones who only saw her when she was in a very bad shape.
    Remember in Dortmund, where she won her World title (It was under 6.0), the audience gave her enthusiasitic standing ovasion already in the preliminary round. No need to say about the free skate, from the moment she started skating and as she continued, the heat and excitement of the arena grew up, up and up, and it nearly blew off the roof. The moment she finished, everyone jumped up on his feet from joy and applause. The people gave her the hugest and most enthusiasitic standing ovasion of the day.
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012
  14. gingercrush

    gingercrush New Member

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    o.o

    I haven't been the most active on the figure skating board as I have previously but I have never seen such a reference to Arakawa whatsoever. In fact I don't ever recall racism being displayed here. At the most we've had a bit too much patriotism. Mostly explained due to the history between Japan and Korea. But even then it boils down to ubering.

    We're down to six skaters all of which have legitimate claims to staying around. Someone has to go.
  15. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    Are you serious in writing this stuff? :lol:
    So, people who vote for Arakawa to be booted out are crooked racists and ones who vote for any other Asian lady is not?
    Please, get real.

    BTW, Arakawa had her moment in Dortmund. But so did all other ladies when they won their own world title or two. Even Kimmie Meissner, who were voted out the first, had her wonderful moment in Calgary.
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  16. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    If it's between Shizuka and Lulu, I'd vote off Shizuka. Lulu had 3 great Olympic performances, an amazing span of years. She didn't medal in Lillehammer, but she was the cleanest skater there. For me her body of work through her career may be second to Kwan, even if she didn't win as much. I also think there needs to be more separation in scores on the artistic (not presentation) side, and Lulu as one of the most ably interpretive skaters would benefit more from this.

    I've seen Shizuka live. I think she is a magnificent skater, I was wowed by her smooth edges, soft knees and regal carriage. I just don't think she gave enough medal worthy performances over the years, although the OGM and WGM are impressive.

    I'll hold out on voting, too. I'd rather see Irina go than either of these two (or Tara), but I want my vote to count.
  17. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

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    Arakawa was so smooth, and IMO was one of the most smooth, polished, and effortless skaters out there. I still find her skating very under rated even though she didn't necessarily knock you over the head with excitement. Even her 3/3's had an effortless quality to the way she did them that I often had to remind myself what she just landed (especially that 3-3-3 she made look easy in Torino practice).

    It will so be Kwan vs Kim :EVILLE: and it will be ugly. :watch:

    While artistically the best I think Lulu is far inferior to the rest of the list technically and doesn't have the hardware these other ladies have.

    Personally while a favorite of mine I think that Slutskaya is the least polished skater on the list, but one of the best technically.

    Voted Lulu, though her 96 LP be my favorite out of every program any of these ladies have performed.
  18. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I remember so well when I first watched this program. I was impressed. It was a beautiful moment for me. And I loved this costume too.
    It's so hard to vote for her !
  19. Amy03

    Amy03 New Member

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    what the hell, have you even been following skating, pretty much everything you say about mao is bullshit. Mao attempted, landed, and rotated countless of beautiful 3A, i will show you what amazing stuff you have missed:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ8LXKlFjUI
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWdY5uHROoI&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKxgKLUVB1I&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwgyJz-le1w
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=327n8Gue9Ic............ and many many more

    and to give you just a few videoes where she landed amazing 3-3 combinations:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp5aoeVYcHg&feature=relmfu
    here she landed two 3-3 and a 3A a layout that not even your queen couldn't dream of doing.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz-AktwtDfs another gourges 3-3

    and unlike your queen she has done all kind of tripples in her splended career, and pushed her layout always be her absolut maximum and thereby always pushing herself, and taking risks like one should in a a sport, and not go safe with the fricken same layout year after year...
  20. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    I would say its because she was never truly dominated the sport and while she did win the OGM and was a very worthy winner-that Olympics was totally lackluster and she really only won because Irina and Sasha made huge errors in their programs. I would not catagorize her a someone like Sarah Hughes who was just totally lucky because, as you said, she had an amazing quality to her skating. She was just sooooo inconsistant- I mean one year you are world champion, the next year...9th?

    No one is racist. seriously...Pu-LEEZE with the Asian stuff. With the exception of Irina, everyone left on the poll is Asian.

    Anywhoo-I have no idea who to pick!
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  21. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Agreed 110%. Took words out of my mouth/keyboard. But to me, this is a poll to determine the most popular champion on FSU, NOT the strongest.

    As far as I'm concerned, Chen is weakest, with Arakawa not being too far behind (despite her OGM).
  22. Amy03

    Amy03 New Member

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    i voted for irina compared to all the other ladies she really was the least polished artistically....
  23. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    Don't be so emotional. No point in crying over a fsu poll. :D

    I just watched your 1st video to confirm whether I had been wrong.
    What you have elaborated as fully rotated beautiful 3A turned out to be a two-footed landing. As for rest, I gave up watching.

    I'm afraid you and I seem to have a difference in opinion as to what a fully rotated beautiful jump is. My definition of a beautiful jump is one that has a clean take-off, fully rotated in the air, landed on one foot, and a nice running edge on exit.

    Miss Asada never had a clean jump technique.
    Otherwise, why would she bother completely revamping her jump technique so late in her career had it been so wonderful?
    Get over it.
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012
  24. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Posting from Round 6 (in respone to another poster)!

    Those 3-3 by Shiz mean zip when most of them were pretty clearly underrotated. Lu did 3-3 in her practices and had landed a 3-3 in competition before.

    The other big thing you are forgetting is consistency. Shiz is getting a lot of votes because she lacked any form of it. Lu skated clean LPs multiple times in her career, which can't exactly be said of Shiz. Shiz was on the senior international scene for 8 years and Lu was on it for about 6 (excluding '97) and Lu had a lot more to show for her shorter career than Shiz does.

    And if you call a 2 time Olympics bronze medalist (one of which should have been a silver), 1 World gold, 1 World silver, and 2 World bronzes a "not so amazing medal record," then I don't know what is an amazing medal record. Lu medaled at almost every worlds she was at and won a medal at 2 of the 3 Olympics she attended. Sure, Lu doesn't have that elusive Olympic gold, but her medal count is pretty darn impressive for someone coming from a nation who had absolutely no idea how to politick and fully back its skaters.
  25. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    Chen Lu is the ultimate skating godess for me. The most artistic lady skater ever.

    She would have won so many more medals had she been from a skating powerhouse.
    Craptacular programs she skated to during her early career held her back also in my opinion. Her 95 and 96 programs were so much better than her Albertville and Lillehammer programs.
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012
  26. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    Midori and Yuka paved the way for lady skaters in Japan waay before Shizuka. Shizuka's coaches had been to the most elite competitions, her country already had a taste of supporting great champion skaters. For me Lu is the true pioneer, in her country no one had acheived success at her level before...the coaching expertise, facility, fan support...indeed, China's enitre presence on the skating scene.. all came after she made her success. Only YuNa can compare in this respect.
  27. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Well.... yeah. There's no mathematical formula to determine the strongest, and people's criteria would legitimately differ even when removing the subjective "I like her more than her" aspect.
  28. DaiKozOda

    DaiKozOda Active Member

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    Bye Bye Lu Chen.
  29. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    What were Arakawa's best performances other than at 2004 Worlds and the 2006 Olympics?

    To me, she seems like figure skating's answer to The Cyrcle or Kim Wilde -- a two-hit wonder.
  30. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Since Kwan is not in the running yet I'll go for Arakawa. I actually love Arakawa, but not as much as Chen.

    Artistically, Chen had more beautiful and memorable signature programs, especially the Last Emperor and Rach. Arawaka's greatest moments were all skating to Turandot, which is a piece of music that really carries you. The program wasn't even new in 2004 (she had used it in 2001-02 previously) and the choreography, while ok, is not brilliant. People get on S&P's case for recycling a 4 year old program, but Arakawa doesn't get as much criticism for that.

    On the technical side it's Arakawa for her 3-3s, edges, and being one of the few women to get a 6.0 for tech (granted it was at 2004 Worlds aka the 6.0 free for all).

    I have to give the edge to Chen because she was a trailblazer for her country who really had to earn the respect from the judges, and she stayed in medal contention for 5 years all on her own merits. I'm not counting her failing to quality in 1997 since she was injured. Arakawa was never consistently at the top. She failed to make the World team for 4 years in a row, and that was during the Suguri/Onda years, not the more challenging Asada/Ando era. After winning Worlds, she dropped to 9th the next year... in fact her Worlds results are crazy.... 1st, 8th, 9th, 22nd.

    She wasn't even that memorable during the Olympic winning season. She didn't qualify for GPF and barely made the Japanese team (bronze medal, 4th in the LP). In fact, fair or not, the 2006 Olympics has a giant asterisk for me because Asada wasn't there and she beat every Olympic medalist in senior competition during that season. Unlike Chen, who was the only top skater from her country, I think Arakawa benefited from being considered the top Japanese female at the Olympics due to her world title 2 years prior and the fact that Asada wasn't there. The judges kept the scores artificially close to Slutskaya and Cohen in the SP, and Arakawa benefited from skating after Cohen and knowing she didn't need her triple-triples to at least lock in silver. I always thought she won Torino mostly on the practice ice.
  31. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    Voting for Chen Lu... Yes artistically she was great, but compared to the other skaters on this poll, her technical ability is way low.
  32. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    I voted for Shizuka. While her performances to "Turandot" were magical (esp Worlds 2004), she couldn't skate well to anything else ... Chen Lu (and all the others) could not only skate well to more than one piece of music, but actually medal! I also treat Chen Lu as having two World golds, since (IMO) 1996 should have been a tie, with duplicate golds.
  33. duane

    duane New Member

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    I'm no longer voting in any of these SURVIVOR polls in protest. But I'll continue reading/posting. ;)

    The above is my sentiment exactly, but I can understand the rationale for voting Lulu off. Since becoming a FS fan in 94 after the famous WACK, I don't recall Chen Lu ever skating a clean (as in, all planned elements landed) long program other than 96 Worlds. I think her Olympics 94 LP was the best of the night and was undermarked, but wonder the outcome if she had landed her planned 3lz/3t and/or didn't have the hand down on the 3f. A doubled 3lz nearly cost her World gold. She barely squeezed out the win in 95 (if I remember correctly, she and Surya received 3 1st place ordinals, and either Michelle also received 3, or she received 2 and Nicole received one). And as happy as I was for her winning a 2nd bronze at 98 Olympics, I don't think it was deserved.
  34. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    Arakawa overwhelming won the LP and therefore the competition, given the way Cohen and Slute skated. I don't think it had anything to do with her impressive practices, she was the clear cut winner in competition. But I agree with you, she skated with conservative content to assure she'd get a medal of any color, not necessarily gold. Japan had not won a single Winter Olympic medal in any sport at that point, and Arakawa, sitting in 3rd after the SP, was the last hope. She was totally shocked when Irina faltered and she won the biggest prize in the Winter Olympic games.
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012
  35. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Re-posting what I posted last round:

    I'll add to that by saying in comparison to Chen, Shizuka's record is less impressive. Yes, Shiz has an OGM but that's one competition and one result. As we get to the end of the poll we need curve the myopia and look at the bigger picture when it comes to the skater as a whole, which means pointing to one accomplishment isn't going to cut it anymore.

    IMO Chen's body of work over the course of her career is more consistent. She's also regarded as one of the most artistic skaters of her era. Additionally, she was a pioneer for figure skating in her country (a la Yu-Na in Korea).

    I think Shizuka was a skater with great edges, technique and jumping ability. Artistically I found her to be a one-note skater and that note was always something by Puccini. She was a middle of the pack skater who had the skate of her life in Dortmund (2004 worlds) and managed to hold it together in Torino while others fell apart.

    When comparing her traits and accomplishments to the remaining skaters on this list, her body of work doesn't hold up IMO.
  36. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    For me it was a tough choice between Shizuka and Chen Lu. I love them both. I voted for Shizuka based on the fact that in all her years of competing she won medals at world/Olympic level just twice. They were both golds which raises her overall value a lot, but I would give more credit to Chen Lu's sustained success over the years. She missed the cut in 1997 worlds due to personal problems, but otherwise she has been very competitive and at least a medal contender (plus a world champion) rest of the way. Her 1996 LP performance at worlds, which got her two 6.0s (but did not win the gold) was one of the most artistic performance by a lady I have ever seen.
  37. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    Chen Lu was undermarked at major events so many times.

    In 92 Albertville, she skated the best freeskate but didn't get acknowledged because she had made a silly mistake in the SP and hence didn't make the final flight.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c19Hk1g0qrE

    Like you said, she skated the best freeskate in 94 Lillehammer but was undermarked.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfAo4rfrSn0

    In 95 Worlds, she won the competition convincingly, yet she barely eaked out enough ordinals.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARd8UsQj_Ag
    The Last Emperor has been one of my favorite programs. I just can't get enough of how she does her steps starting from 3m10s. Although I am an Asian, I had never realized before how effervescent Asian music can be.

    At 96 Edmonton, she really should have won the gold with Rachmaninoff. There was a difference in level of maturity between her and young Michelle Kwan that one more triple jump just couldn't make up for.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHEMyp_QFYo

    I agree that her bronze medal at 98 Nagano was a gift. I'm usually not for judges giving out medals for life time acheivements, but if I had to choose one skater who deserved one, it would have been Chen Lu at Nagano. She had been through so much, and yet given so many beautiful performances over the years.

    I just saw this clip of her and her husband Denis Petrov. It seems she is doing so well having her own rink in China. I hope she does just as well in coaching as she did in skating, and showcase her students in major competitions soon.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEnpb3pW-xM
  38. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I voted for Arakawa instead of Chen.. same reasons as last time.
  39. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    That's the problem with Mao. And that's why I don't consider her as one of very best. Her jumping technique is questionnable, IMO, and her landings are not really on a clean edge. :cold:
  40. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I went with Lu Chen but after reading your post I wish I had gone with Shizuka.

    The thing about them is neither had the capacity to be dominant skaters. Both won all their major titles through others mistakes. That is why the 96 Worlds would have been the crowning glory of Chen's career, she would have defended her title over a clean 7 triple Kwan who had developed great artistry and dominated that season, but 2 more people had to feel a certain way for her to have that moment. Arakawa could have had that moment in Turin if she did her practice programs, nobody would dare say that a clean Cohen or Slutskaya had beaten her if she her program with the content she had planned as she probably would have scored around 140 based on what she got for what she did, but she didnt.