Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by SamuraiK, Jul 7, 2012.
I love Mao, but I love Irina more. I'll wait to vote.
NO SKATER, and I really mean NO skater, has gotten more hype then yuna kim, and if anyone hasn't live up to the hype it's her, having the judges, and a (flawed) system that totally boosted her scores, and still only delievering a few clean skates in her career (through not having half of the the difficulty or the risky programs that Asada had) That's not living up to the hype!
so if you are voting according to who hasn't lived up to the hype you'r vote should rather go to kim.[/QUOTE]
NO $KATER has gotten more hype then Mao Osada. ISU even changed rules for her that ppl called it 'Mao rule'. Her Olympic free program had UR and Poped jumps but she still got 131.72. Her fans always insisted her programs're the most difficult or risky in figure skating history but protocols revealed me they're not that different with other skaters. (i.e. Her TES at 2010 NHK trophy Free skating was mere 32.23.)
So if you are voting according to who hasn't lived up to the hype you'r vote should rather go to Asama.
Bye Mao! Sorry!
Let's see if she can get her act together and fix all her UR's and edge problems. I'm not expecting much, but she's still a beautiful skater. Just not at the same caliber as other champions.
Irina. I made my case a few rounds ago.
She had one season where she was skating as a complete skater (2000), and once she made it back to the top, she went back to the old boxy, hunchy, stiff, Irina.
Everyone is entitled to his opinion. Do you know actually there's a tacit agreement and understanding throughout Japanese figure skating world that the rules before Vancouber Olys were made to hamper Mao? Like edge calls rule (wrong edges had been ignored for a long time before) made right after 2007 Worlds, and insanely strict ur punishments that got more and more harsh toward Vancouber. Other ladies were just involved in them. They became more and more discouraged to challenge difficult things, and came to prefer playing it safe. Strangely enough, ISU immediately loosened the punishments right after Vancouber Olys finished, raised base values of 3A and 4, and finally allowed ladies to do 3A instead of 2A in SP. But it was too late as it was after Vancouber Oly was over. Again, everyone is entitled to his opinion. They can think whatever they want. You can't blame them to do that.
You raised Mao's score at 2010 NHK as an example, when she was relearning jumps from scratch and when all her jumps were in a total mess.
And you didn't even write her name correctly, like Osada and Asama.
All 4 of the Ladies remaining on the list have been recipients of exaggerated, at times annoying, hype. Since yuna is the only one of the 4 to pull off the ogm, I'd say she's probably the least of the 4 to not live up to the hype.
I voted for Asada.
We're getting down to the nitty-gritty now!
So, of the four left, Irina is my least favorite. I'm a fan who needs both sides of skating: the technical and the artistic. There should be a balance between the two. Irina was a very lopsided skater IMO. She had speed and harder combos for a stretch...but nothing else. No kind of grace, extension, line, posture, elegance or anything remotely similar to those. She did have energy and charisma, but that wasn't enough to gloss over the eyesore that was the rest of her sloppy, unattractive skating.
Having said that, given her longevity, consistency, competitiveness and her record, I can't vote for Irina this round. It's tough because I absolutely HATE her skating...but since she retired, I've gained a new level of respect and appreciation for her. So I can't vote for her.
On the technical side of things, Michelle is the weakest of the remaining skaters. However, her record speaks for itself. With nothing more than 3t-3t she dominated the national and world stage during her career. Complain about her lack of difficulty but the point is she didn't need it. She played to her strengths and it paid off...moving on, that leaves Yu-Na and Mao.
When it comes to preference, I'm on the fence. I really love both skaters. IMO, Yu-Na fully reached her potential as a figure skater...but I don't believe that Mao has. Switching to Tatiana Tarasova was the biggest mistake of Mao's career IMO. Tatiana took one of the most technically skilled, artistically capable skaters in the world and turned her into a one-trick Russian-diva pony. She set Mao back two years in terms of her development as a skater and Mao is still paying for it right now.
Mao's qualities are amazing: line, extension, posture, fluidity, gracefulness, flexibility and that incredible airy, ethereal quality that no other skater in the world has. She's an amazing and special kind of skater.
I figured with Yu-Na out these last few years that it would be Mao's time to reaffirm herself as the top skater in the world...she has not done that and in this weakened field of skaters, that's a problem. Mao is in a rebuilding phase but, competitively, you have to stay in the race and she hasn't done that on the world stage. I won't even go into things like her lutz technique or her lack of a salchow b/c IMO that doesn't even matter in the grand scheme of things...it's what she's done overall. She's accomplished a lot but for some reason her record doesn't stand out as much as it should. I think it's b/c of Mao's consistency in comparison to the other 3. The success rate of her all of her jumps (including her famed 3A) has suffered over these last few years and she's been very erratic in terms of her placements...she's missed the world podium the last two times in a row behind people who she should not be losing to.
In a way it's unfair b/c she's still competing and her story is still being written but against these final skaters, I have to pick Mao to go.
Oh dear that was the sarcasm of Amy03's remark. Of course he knows Asada's correct name
3A instead of 2A in SP was allowed from 2009 - 2010 season. That's why Mao could do 3A+2T in SP at Vancouver. And raising base value of 3A after the Games also was not the first time ever. (IIRC: in 2008, from 7.5 to 8.2. in 2010, from 8.2 to 9.2.)
I think Asada should be out. When she won the title of World Champion, she slided out badly on the ice.
it was so disastrous that I thought she couldn't won the competition. but she won the first place, anyway.
when it comes to the suitability for the champion, Irina should be superior to Asada.
Not true. Miss Asada did her 3A-2T as a combination during 2009-2010 season. 3A was allowed as a required axel jump for ladies short program from the 2010-2011 season.
It was considered a gift to Miss Asada nonetheless, because she was the only lady attempting 3A in the short program. In conjunction with "giving 50% for cheated jumps rule" it opened the door for her to gain more points by doing her underrotated 3A instead of 2A in the sp.
I think if voting was hold after OG Mao had better results in this game
Since this round has a foregone conclusion, I'm going to vote for who I personally enjoy least in terms of aesthetics and what I appreciate in figure skating. Sorry Irina. That said, she was an amazing jumper and her 2005 season was absolutely inspiring to see.
I voted for Irina... as tactical move to try and saved Asada!
Still 46 votes to save Mao, lol.
You're right! It's my bad. 3A instead of 2A in SP was from 2010-2011. I'd like to pay for this. if you and galaxy wanna or , keep in touch with me. It's totally on me.
I vote for Michelle
I disagree that Kwan was the weakest technically of the 4. Girlfriend regularly laid down 7 triple programs while the others 3 mostly did only 6 triple programs. She's the most consistent on the list, and gave the most clean performances of the 4. Irina may have done a 3z/3r but how often and how cleanly?
I think many people may confuse technique and athleticism.
Michelle's jumping technique is definitely very good. But she is not the most athletic from the list.
Oh well... she is still a winner in my eyes!
You go girl! The best is yet to come!
I'm on but don't know about galaxy, though.
I don't really like any of them. I voted for Kwan because she held my interest the least. No cool spins, no voids, no 3a or difficult triple triple. Too vanilla for my tastes.
Technically they are all very good. But in terms of technical ABILITY, Michelle gets left behind.
Artistically Irina is slightly less behind
Because most of this poll ive based my vote about 70% technical and 30% artistic, im voting out Michelle
Her butchering of Bolero sticks in y mind today. I actually didn't like that many of her iconic programs. I didn't like dream of desdemona. I HATED song of the black swan.
I loved her Salome and lyra Angelica as well as Rachmaninoff and East of Eden.
I love this word !
Oh, come on. Remember her brilliant portrayal of Bullwinkle the moose (complete with antlers)?? I thought it was a pretty bold artistic statement.
Or her classic LP to "Where have all the chickens gone?"
When a skater brings their love for animals to the ice, it's no small thing. It's lovely to occasionally bring chickens into the spotlight. Those humble animals are served for lunch and dinner but do we ever step to think about them when we are not eating them?
So, in other words, you loved her 4 most iconic programs and didn't like two of her less iconic programs
I have no idea what this program has to do with chickens...
And I find her Tosca very expressive. Certainly better than Michelle's version where she just skates from one jump to anothe. It's like jump, jump, jump, jump with no choreography (otherwise she probably wouldn't have been able to land those triples) and then finally straight line footwork.
Yes, slightly, like a freight truck in a pack of sports cars.
And sometimes, less is more
How many skaters even have that many "iconic programs" to begin with?
I'm a fan, but have to agree her Bolero was a mess.
I also agree that 'slightly' isn't an accurate word in this case. There were a couple seasons were Slutskaya was artistically on par with the other skaters (2001-2003). But apart from that, I found her pretty sloppy and unfinished, even in 2005-2006 when she was dominating the rest of the field. She got highly inflated GOEs and PCS scores those years. Totentanz at 2005 Cup of China was most certainly not a 70+ performance.
One might say anyone's PCS were inflated but GOEs, you can check with the guidelines if they were right or not and in this case they were certainly right. Her jumps and spins had just good quality.
Separate names with a comma.