Favorite US National Ladies champion in the post-Michelle Kwan era

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vash01, Jan 12, 2013.

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Your favorite US natonals ladies champion after Michelle Kwan's last US nationals?

Poll closed Mar 13, 2013.
  1. 2012 Ashley Wagner

    33 vote(s)
    22.9%
  2. 2011 Alissa Czisny

    18 vote(s)
    12.5%
  3. 2010 Rachael Flatt

    6 vote(s)
    4.2%
  4. 2009 Alissa Czisny

    5 vote(s)
    3.5%
  5. 2008 Mirai Nagasu

    24 vote(s)
    16.7%
  6. 2007 Kimmie Meisner

    5 vote(s)
    3.5%
  7. 2006 Sasha Cohen

    53 vote(s)
    36.8%
  1. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Michelle Kwan dominated the US nationals, winning straight 8 from 1998 to 2005 titles, plus th e1996 title.

    In post Michelle (also pre-Michelle) era no lady truly dominated the US natonals. Of these (2006-2012), who is your favorite US national champion?
    l'etoile and (deleted member) like this.
  2. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    For me it was a toss-up between Sasha and Alissa. I went with Sasha.
  3. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    I voted for Sasha, but I was surprised that I was even weighing between her and Ashley. I think Ashley will take the dominating place if she wins the title this year.
  4. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I think you should not have included Sasha in the poll because she is going to win overwhelmingly. She was really from the "Kwan era." The 2007 onward period has been more of its own era of national champs in my opinion.
  5. Katarzyna

    Katarzyna Well-Known Member

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    TheIronLady – I think you raised a good point here, but on the other hand Michelle’s era regarding Nats on paper ended in 2005, as she competed and won the last time then. The next year Sasha was the winner. I loved her classical, balletic skating, so I voted for her. :cheer:

    I always thought she was really unlucky having to skate in the "Kwan-era" for overwhelming part of her own eligible career. :(
  6. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I admit, I'm the one who voted for Rachael.
    I was so happy for her at this moment.
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  7. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    I like Rachael too. :)
  8. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily. Alissa and Ashley are very popular on this board. Also Sasha competed in 2006, when Michelle did not compete. So she is a post-Michelle Champion, IMO. If you look at the numbers, she is only slightly ahead of Ashley.
  9. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Sasha was in Michelle's era regardless if she never beat her at nationals so I wouldn't include her. Though it was nice to see her finally win.

    I think it's better to judge from this new crop of skaters. In that case I would vote for Ashley. She had the most dominant performance of all of the ladies listed, though Alissa's 2011 win was very convincing too...can't say the same thing about 2009 (that was a gift). Besides the next year she started to regress back into her old habits.

    Given the competition last year there was no doubt Ashley was the clear winner. I've said it a million times: she's the only champion who actually acts like a champion. None of the other ladies on this list have carried the title as well as she has this year. Her drive and determination along with her competitiveness makes her stand out...

    My vote goes with Miss S'Wagner. :respec:
  10. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Rachael was really good those days, and I too was happy for her. She was the most consistent jumper and she was working on her presentation. She seems to have lost it all, but at last year's US nationals she skated a great LP and I joined in the standing ovation. I was so happy for her just for skating well.
  11. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    The point here is she did not compete against Michelle in that competition. If she had, she might not have won the title.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2013
  12. Jot the Dot Dot

    Jot the Dot Dot Well-Known Member

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    I like Rachael myself, but I have to go with Sasha as being the one who really set the bar.
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  13. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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    Sasha Cohen - if only she had held it together in the FS at the 2006 Olympics, the Olympic title would have been hers.
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  14. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    Beatrisa Liang.
  15. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Did she win the US nationals? Not in my memory.

    I wanted so much for BeBe to skate well, but she always made mistakes. She had so much potential at age 12 or 13!
  16. mustafinabars

    mustafinabars Member

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    My favorite U.S lady skater since Kristi Yamaguchi is definitely Sasha Cohen. She may not have the medals but in pure skating ability she is better than both Kwan and Yamaguchi I think. My favorite since Cohen would be Czisny, Nagasu, and Wagner.
  17. mustafinabars

    mustafinabars Member

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    Even when she skated well she didnt always get great scores. She skated outstanding at the 2005 Nationals which was a weak competition was still placed 5th behind Kwan, Cohen, Meissner, and Jenny Kirk.
  18. DimaToe

    DimaToe Well-Known Member

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    I really like Ashley , but I had to go with Mirai :D...I can't believe it's almost 5 years since Nagasu won her U.S title, time goes by too fast :shuffle:
  19. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

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  20. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Sasha is really too good for this poll in my opinion. What would be more interesting to know would be what skater would be the second choice of the 30+ who have voted for Sasha so far. I suppose it would be between Ashley and Alissa, but I myself am a bigger fan of Mirai.
  21. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    I honestly love them all, but my heart goes to Rachael. :) Still, if I had to choose I couldn't, I would vote for each and every one because each brought something unique and special, and that's the truth.

    For instance, to go down the line I would say the following:

    Ashley Wagner ~ brought fire & passion & FIGHT; her "Black Swan" ranks amongst my favorite of all-time.
    Alissa Czisny ~ lovely, lovely, lovely. "La Vie en Rose" is Alissa.
    Rachael Flatt ~ skated with heart & soul and fight as well. Her "EOE" & "Firebird" are her signature pieces imho.
    Mirai Nagasu ~ youngest female to ever win Nationals, says it all, and I've always said she's the only American woman that can honestly go head to head with Yuna Kim and win, BUT that means at Mirai's absolute best. 'nuff said.
    Kimmie Meissner ~ heart, soul, determination, kindness, beauty. Deserving World & National Champion, which she will always be known as, and rightfully so.
    Sasha Cohen ~ could've been the best ever, but it's not for trying, she DID! *cheers* Still, Olympic Silver Medalist is nothing to sneeze at. *cheers*


    Now I wonder what history has in store for us all, as she's always thrown us a loop when we least expect it. ;)
  22. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Sasha had more flexibility than Kwan and Yamaguchi, but no way she had better pure skating ability. Compare the edges on Kwan's spirals, for example, with Sasha's and Kwan wins hands down. I don't know if you have seen Michelle skate in person, but she is so much better than what you see on TV.

    Out of those three, Kwan had the best basic skating skills, and even Kristi had better basic skating skills, and both were more consistent jumpers (I know the latter does not count toward basic skating). If you take out the flexibility, Sasha was not a great skater. She was just more beautiful to watch.
  23. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Kristi was kind of inconsistent. She couldn't do a 3S. Her 3L was problematic. Kristi was a better competitor with more than enough talent, but she also had jumping inconsistencies. She was fortunate that she did not have anyone like Kwan, Hughes, or Arakawa around in her day.
  24. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Kristi was a very consistent jumper even as a pro. She could consistently land 3 lutzes and 3 flips even after she turned pro. The 3 sal was always her problem jump, but it does not make her an inconsistent jumper.

    Kwan is the only one that was a more consistent jumper than Kristi.

    Hughes consistently underrotated her jumps and was given the benefit of doubt by the judges. Plus she did not stick around very long. So I would not count her as a consistent jumper.

    Arakawa had two really good competitions in her entire career- the 2004 worlds and the 2006 Olympics. She had a long but very inconsistent career.

    Kristi's mistakes at the 1992 Olympics were uncharacteristic of her.
  25. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I know that Kristi grew as a pro, but during her eligible career the 3S she blew quite often, not just at the Olympics. It was also blown at the 1991 Worlds and 1992 Worlds.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  26. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Well, as a Sashafan I voted Sasha. :duh:

    After that I love Ashley and Alissa about the same, both bring such wonderful qualities to skating, different but awesome skaters. Mirai...like most of you, I expected so much more from her. She is somewhere in the middle. Kimmie who? Rachael...the less I say about this, the better.
  27. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    The inability to do one jump does not mean she is an inconsistent jumper overall. She was the most consistent jumper in all the other jumps that ladies were doing then, and even now. Now they just skip the jumps they have difficulty with, but Kristi went for all the jumps, except the 3A, and she just had difficulty with the 3S.
  28. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    You and I were comparing her to Sasha, and we both know Sasha also went for all the jumps.

    I agree somewhat with with your assessment of Cohen's rivals. I concur that Arakawa was not known for consistency until 03-04. She was an underachieving hot mess for many years, and even in 04-05.

    Hughes did get away with incomplete triples, but then so sometimes did Michelle Kwan. Kwan's just weren't quite as under-rotated as Sarah's abominable 3Lz, but this did not matter because Sarah and Michelle met the standards of the day. Both were fierce in the game competitors with good extension and spin elements.

    I do not think you can say Yamaguchi was as consistent as Hughes and Kwan. Yamaguchi fell on, doubled, or popped something--and always the 3S-- at 90 Worlds, 91 Worlds, 92 Olympics, and 92 Worlds. The rivals of her day were all unreliable performers. There was no one as consistent as Hughes or Kwan. There was arguably no one besides Kristi who was more consistent than Sasha in 90-92!
  29. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Well Kerrigan was on every major podium that Yamaguchi won gold at, and we all know Kerrigan was making atleast 3 major mistakes and never landing more than 4 triples before her fall of 93 newfound training regime, so if that is all Kristi had to beat, she indeed didnt have to face much or be super consistent to stay on top. That said I would say Kerrigan once she focused on singles was very consistent. The 92 Olympics is one of the only times she made 2 mistakes in a program (if doubling a triple salchow even counts as a mistake). She was only inconsistent when she was trying to do too much by focusing on both pairs and singles, while school figures were still around to boot.

    Why on earth would Yamaguchi she never faced someone like Arakawa. Shizuka was one of the most inconsistent top skaters EVER bare none. She basically was a glorified journeywomen who somehow happened to win a World and Olympics at the end of a decade plus long senior skating career, capatilizing on her rare good skates coming when the favorites fell apart, and despite no other finishes higher than 8th, lol!
  30. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Beautifully stated! Worthy US champions, all of them.
    Just one nitpick: Tara Lipinski is the youngest U.S. champion, not Mirai :)
    I picked Sasha, though I guess she technically was part of the MK era. She is one of only a few skaters who made me say "wow" at first sight!
  31. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    I want this poll re-done after Nationals this year :) I'm not going to call the winner...but I'm sure as hell that the winning performance this year will be one to be remembered.
  32. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    When Mirai wins, it will be fantastic.
  33. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the correction, I forgot to add since Tara Lipinski that is, the youngest ever Olympic Champion, as well as US National Champion. Mirai is in good company. :) :cool:
  34. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    That's kind of a sad commentary on the rest of the US ladies champs after Kwan.

    In terms of pure skating ability, I don't think Cohen was as technically sound as either Kwan or Yamaguchi, but she actually improved a lot over the years, even after leaving competition. I always thought Kristi was an eminently watchable skater too, but I can see why folks enjoy watching Sasha. She really does have a "can't take your eyes off her" quality. It really stood out in the SOI duet she did with Czisney, doing the same moves. Almost without fail, Sasha's position was just a little bit prettier, her movement just a little smoother.

    I voted for Cohen. My runner up favorite would be Nagasu, although it is kind of amazing how little she has accomplished with such a promising beginning. (I'm thinking more of her 2010 skates than her pre-pubescent National Title.)
  35. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Sasha won three World medals and an Olympic medal vs zero for the 2007-2012 gang. I don't think Sasha is anything to frown upon, and she brought new meaning and inspiration to skating between 2000-2006.
  36. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I did not say Yama was as consistent as Hughes & Kwan. I said she was more consistent than Hughes because Hughes did not even do triple jumps half the time. Kwan was more consistent than Kristi (read my post again). You are so convinced that Kristi was an inconsistent jumper that no logic is going to convince you.
  37. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Sasha's career is frowned upon since she blew the following opportunities to win major titles:

    2003 Nationals
    2004 Nationals
    2004 Worlds
    2005 Worlds
    2006 Olympics
    2006 Worlds

    She had a fine career but it was much less than it could have been or should have been. I could add 2000 Nationals and 2002 Olympics but I wouldnt as she was really too new in both cases to be expected to deliver perfectly and win with the unexpected opportunity, and she only had the opportunity to because of others mistakes anyway. Then again I often put her inconsistency and inability to skate clean programs down to her poor jump technique, derived from poor basic skating, which are her only two real weaknesses, but which made it hard to cleanly land all her jumps in a long program. I dont think it was as simple as a focus problem as many put it down to.
  38. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Sasha was so talented, and the expectations of her were very high. She did accomplish a lot in her career, but it was less than what she could have. That's why sometimes she is seen as somewhat of a disappointment. I don't believe she needed a perfect (jumpwise) program to win; something close would have been good enough. However, she competed in an era where a skater who was a model of consistency and competitiveness- Michelle Kwan. That was her misfortune; she could not rise to the level needed to beat Kwan.
  39. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Not just a question of consistency and competitiveness, IMO, if Sasha Cohen didn't beat Michelle Kwan that often. :)
  40. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    Sasha for sure out of this group, but I also think of her more as Kwan-era, or tail end of the 'Golden Age', rather than 'Lean Years'. I think of her as the last of the great US ladies, ending the incredible long run of World/Olympic medalists (and entering an unbearably long dry spell).

    I don't think there's another US skater of that caliber since then, but I loved Mirai's Olympic performance, and the great strides Ashley has made these last 2 seasons.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013