Evan Officially Announces His Comeback

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by sk9tingfan, Aug 10, 2012.

  1. Jemestone

    Jemestone New Member

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    To be fair, a team of Abbott and Rippon in 2012 didn't do any better than the rookies, at least both Dornbush and Miner managed to finish in the top 12 in 2011.

    I also don't believe a combo of Abbott and Weir will get us 3 spots back either. In fact, I'm all for leaving Abbott at home.
     
  2. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Weir skated his best and placed only 6th in Vancouver when the level of mens skating was like 40% what it is right now. How Weir on the team would increase the chances of 3 spots is beyond me. As for Weir being on the team over Abbott, Abbott would have to majorly bomb Nationals for that to happen and he doesnt usually do that of late. To be honest I think a bunch of people would have to bomb Nationals for Weir to make it, unless he comes out doing things he has never done in his career. I do think Lysacek is more likely to make the team but I dont think any combination of 2 men is safe to get 3 spots for Worlds. I dont believe any U.S man is likely to medal at the 2013 Worlds so the pressure will be on both to place in the top 7.
     
  3. Jemestone

    Jemestone New Member

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    Weir can stay at home too. I'm not a fan of Evan at all, but he's really clutch when he needs to be internationally, so I'm all for him going. But good luck on the US getting three spots back, no matter who they send, it's going to be tough.
     
  4. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    Agree. The international standard is very high now. It's more about the collective strength of the international men, than the strength/weakness of the US men.
     
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  5. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    In discussing who will give the US men the best chance to earn 3 spots for Sochi at '13 Worlds, it would probably be any combination of Evan, Johnny and Jeremy. I will say that Richard, IF he dramatically builds on what he showed us at Glacier Falls during the GP series, could accompany one of them and get 13 pts.

    Of Evan, Jeremy, and Johnny, I would like to see during the course of the season who puts it together best:

    -Will Johnny succeed technically with a Quad and transitions?

    -Will Evan bring back his A Game with a Quad?

    -Will Jeremy finally hold it together? Will the return of the other 2 inspire him or rattle him?

    Don't laugh, but I think Johnny has the best shot of the 3 to reach his goals.
     
  6. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    It's just speculation and guessing at this point, but hey what else we got?




    Both Dornbush and Miner will be a year older and have more experience, but I don't see the judges giving them both a "push". Now with more big names in the mix, forget about it! There's only room for one twinky on team USA. :p


    Assuming they all go on to skate well, I could totally see a Lysacek/Dornbush ticket with the best chance to get us three spots.

    Lysacek/Dornbush
    Lysacek/Miner

    Weir/Dornbush
    Weir/Miner

    Abbott/Dornbush
    Abbott/Miner

    It's a mix & match game. ;)
     
  7. legjumper

    legjumper Active Member

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl:

    No need to get all dramatic. If I had instead said Abbott and Mahbanoozadeh, or Abbott and Farris, would you have made the same accusation? :lol: My opinion is shaped by Lysacek's well-known training habits and competitive drive, and the two times I've seen Dornbush compete this summer in person, and the general competitive histories of the top U.S. men. They seem like pretty solid picks to me.

    Anyway, the Grand Prix will give us more insight as to where they all actually stand relative to each other, since there are so many head-to-head matchups.

    Abbott vs. Lysacek at Skate America
    Dornbush vs. Weir at Rostelecom Cup
    Abbott vs. Weir at Trophee Eric Bompard
    Dornbush vs. Miner vs. Rippon at NHK Trophy

    That last one should be a doozy for the young guns.
     
  8. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Examples: pretty much every single 3axel Lysacek has performed in competition (that does include the one from the Olympics SP and both ones from the Olympics FS) :p

    Olympics SP: http://youtu.be/ZqbQpiriYCU?t=3h49m15s

    Olympics FS: http://youtu.be/KmJgGHIoawU?t=6m26s
     
  9. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Evan's 3A in his Olympics SP was one of the best he has ever done. There wasn't any more pre-rotations on that jump than what you'd normally see in the other top skaters.
     
  10. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    All things considered I think Evan, if he makes the team, would have the best chance of any U.S man to finish as high as maybe 5th or 6th. However if we assume a finish like that for Evan then the other U.S man, whoever that is, would have to finish almost directly behind him. I dont think any of Abbott (usually bombs at Worlds, and even when he doesnt no great international rep at this point), Dorbush (not really established internationally, streaky last season), Miner (not enough ability barring major improvements), or Weir (what I already said) would be likely to finish as high as 7th, so with no combination are the U.S men likely to regain 3 spots IMO, let alone safe to.
     
  11. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    And this matters because.....? Authenticity isn't one of the CoP judging components.
     
  12. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    Errr...is not like the rest of the skaters are models of consistency either. One day you can be a bronze medal and the next not even be in the top Ten. For now Chan & Takahashi are the standard, but the rest are interchangeable. :blah:


    Let's get those three spots people!!! :kickass:
     
  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Look at the slo-mo I linked to in my last post.

    He clearly pre-rotates by 1/4, with his weight on the blade, generating lots of snow on the take-off.
     
  14. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Like Kozuka and Gachinski from 2011 to 2012!
     
  15. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    These match-ups are mouthwatering. :swoon:

    I don't care who makes the world team this year. I'll be happy to root for any of them. As long as we send the strongest team to get us those three spots, I'll be ok with it.

    If someone chokes at worlds again, I'll be so pissed! :mad: lol





    lol

    Exactly my point. ;)
     
  16. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I agree that we're all guessing and predicting, and it will ultimately come down to results of GPF circuit and Nationals. I also agree it will not be a slam dunk for any combination of 2 U.S. men to get 3 spots back, unless Johnny and Evan get selected for Worlds and are in great form and are able to consistently execute at least one quad or quad combo. The factor in their favor is their international experience, but the question mark will be do they still have endurance, fitness and skills that they can consistently execute. Another question will be whether or not Johnny will be given the credit he deserves if he performs well. Another factor will be if Dornbush, Miner, Abbott and even Rippon perform consistently well all season, which is not out of the realm of possibility. I'd rather U.S. judges be faced with making a very difficult decision with everyone performing well.

    At this point, Dornbush and Miner are a lot better known internationally than they were in 2011. Despite a lot of fans downplaying Miner's skills, he is a strong competitor and a proven consistent skater. The question is whether or not he will have a reliable quad. If Dornbush and Miner both perform well it may come down to who has the more reliable quad. If all the top guys perform well at Nationals, I do think that Johnny and Evan might be the ones to go to Worlds. However, if either falter in successfully and reliably completing quads, at least one spot may go to a younger skater who has the quad and who achieves success during the season and at Nationals.

    In order to gain back 3 spots, whichever two U.S. men get to go to Worlds, they must perform lights out there. The judging will have to be fair as well.

    BTW, to state the obvious, of course displaying "authenticity" is not exactly something skaters are scored on. As a fan, it is something that I feel can enhance skaters' performances as well as my enjoyment in watching them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2012
  17. made_in_canada

    made_in_canada INTJ

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    Youtube kept crashing on me so I couldn't look at your specific examples but I certainly wouldn't consider that pre-rotation based on your description. While an axel is said to take off forwards it really doesn't. Your body ends up being square to the take-off edge (hopefully that makes sense). Also, there are very few triple axels that don't have a skid and the ones that don't are usually inconsistent, like Sandhu.
     
  18. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I know all of that.

    Some skid/pre-rotation will always happen on the edge jumps. Such is their nature.

    In Lysacek's case, it was consistently more pronounced and apparent than what you usually see from other skaters.
     
  19. ks1227

    ks1227 Well-Known Member

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    I don't always agree with judgejudy but I have to agree with this assessment of Weir. I think there is almost no chance that Weir will be on the team.
     
  20. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    Now that they can judge the takeoff edge in slow motion, Evan might be in some trouble on his flip.
     
  21. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to add to my earlier post -

    Versus the 3 oldies, I think it may come down to just Dornbush and Miner on the young'uns side. Mahbanoozadeh's problem is that he doesn't seem to get a lot of love from either the USFSA or from international judges. He is handicapped in that he will not make an appearance on the GP circuit to bolster his credibility as a US top #2. Now, if he goes to a Senior B and gets a big score showing a consistent, workable Quad, that might change the equation but not sure by how much.

    I also did not know that the judges in this quadrennial were scrutinizing jump take-offs more? I never saw the problem with EL's axel take-off relative to any one else's but I guess we will find out soon enough.

    I want to reiterate I actually like JW's chances: He seems to have matured more (marriage?), made some peace with the USFSA, and of the 3 - Lysacek, Weir, Abbott - he was always a bit more 'authentic' with more natural ability than Lysacek (Weir's 3x was always a beauty), combined with not being nearly as head case-y as Abbott: A good balance might lift him to a spot. He is reportedly training the Quad w/ some success. I know. We must see it to believe it, but it sounds encouraging.
     
  22. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    There's a reason Plushenko's camp referred to Evan's 3A as a "triple salchow," and the reason isn't trash talking.

    As far as which skaters will be on the World team, considering that the season hasn't yet begun, it seems a bit premature to be speculating. I just hope that whoever they are, they don't end up having had their best performance of the season at Nationals, as has been the trend lately.
     
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  23. made_in_canada

    made_in_canada INTJ

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    Oh okay.
     
  24. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    There's a reason Plushenko's camp referred to Evan's 3A as a "triple salchow," and the reason isn't trash talking.

    As far as which skaters will be on the World team, considering that the season hasn't yet begun, it seems a bit premature to be speculating. I just hope that whoever they are, they don't end up having had their best performance of the season at Nationals, as has been the trend lately.
     
  25. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Yes, speculation is premature, BittyBug, I agree. But as fans we always seem to do it. Perhaps we do it out of anticipation and eagerness for the season to begin, as well as a bit of anxiety and fingers-crossing for our faves, not to mention just plain temptation to predict. Of course, predictions are a dime a dozen and can generally be thrown out the window when the season starts, since anything can happen and usually does. ;)

    Johnny's always had a gorgeous 3-axel (hopefully he will have success landing a quad too, but actual competition is necessary to find out). Miner is another U.S. guy with a consistent and beautifully executed 3-axel. Abbott generally has all around great jumping skills, when he's on. Abbott landed the quad extremely well I believe about 2 out of six or seven tries last season(?). Abbott's quad in fp at Nats was a gorgeous slam dunk. Richard was successful on quad too a few times last season, although he seemed to have trouble maintaining rhythm and execution on some of his triples. Someone indicated in the U.S. men's thread that RD had a bit of trouble with his skate blades last season too. I hope all the guys will be prepared with no equipment problems. RD seems to be on the right track with both of his programs this season. I can't wait to see what everyone has in store. It seems to me that even the middle rung of U.S. guys have stepped up their game and have improved a lot, and no wonder.

    It's definitely crucial for them all to pace themselves to do well throughout the season, in order to be primed at Nats, but to peak at Worlds. I don't know about poor Worlds performances being "a trend" necessarily among U.S. skaters, since the men acquitted themselves very well in 2011 (but were just undermarked, IMO). Alissa also did well in 2011 (but obviously in both 2011 and 2012, one U.S. lady suffered from injury-related problems). Yes, Abbott and Rippon did not perform up to their abilities as they had at Nats in 2012, but I don't accept that as a trend. Hopefully, it will turn out to be a lesson learned for everyone on the U.S. team. Pace yourselves, try to stay injury-free, learn how to let your nerves work for you, not against you. Bring your A game, and own the moment!

    Oh yes, this is the Evan comeback thread, not U.S. men's thread, but it's all connected. :) May it all play out fairly and may the best men win and bring back the 3-spot!
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2012
  26. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    That won't matter with him at US Nationals anyway. Judges at Nationals are renowned for batting a blind eye to a skater's technical problems on home country ice and then said skater doesn't make the required fixes to said issues and are hammered for it at Worlds. :wall:
     
  27. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    Weir´s past results show that as a Worlds competitor he has been a lot better than Abbott. Lysacek though did beat Weir in every Worlds he participated in. I hope that Weir´s transitions will be not "the Russian style transitions", but true transitions....

    Anyway this season with Lysacek´s comeback will become even more interesting that I thought.
     
  28. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

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    As far as "comebacks" are concerned, I look at it in a very democractic way -- even though figure skating can be far from democratic. If a skater (any skater) wants to make a comeback, wants to try again, wants to test their limits, whatever ... I say, "Go for it!"

    Some would like Evan to go away. But having Evan in the mix or even just trying to be will create tension -- tension for those who like Evan and tension for those who don't. That's interesting.

    Same for Johnny.

    Overall, however, if healthy, I think Evan will have a better comeback shot than Johnny -- just due to his training style and single-mindededness. Not a compliment to Evan and not a slam to Johnny. Just a difference in personality and approach.

    O-
     
  29. flipforsynchro

    flipforsynchro New Member

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    watching the same over emoting gets boring.
     
  30. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I think that Evan (and Johnny) being in the mix will also help spur the competitiveness of the other men. The competition level has been raised and thus, everyone will have to be even better just to get a shot