Evan Lysacek News and Update - Determination to Win

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by aymkjb88, Jun 24, 2010.

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  1. Athena

    Athena New Member

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    A little more update from Hersh with Evan's own statement

    I don't know what's included in the athlete contract with USFS, but I think the issue is a LOT more complicated than Hersh's speculation.

    If it's all about money, why would Evan decline all the tour/show opportunities in the past five months (FOI was an exception because it's for charity), detach himself from the whole world, quietly train himself to death on a daily basis, and kept re-injuring himself? He's doing all of these for NOTHING?!!

    As the reigning Olympic champion, he can easily cash in his victory for another 2.5 years from skating shows and public appearances, and he can earn a lot MORE from skating shows than competition (look at Ryan Bradley, Joannie Rochette, Miki Ando, Sasha Cohen, Jeffery Buttle ...). But how many Disson shows he's in this year? ZERO!! That's his choice, simply because he loves training and competing.

    And now, after all the hardwork and sacrifices, when he's in the best form of his life, and his favorite GP event is finally hold on his home turf, he all of a sudden quit just because some damn money issue? Knowing how competitive Evan is, it just doesn't make any sense to me.

    Whatever the contract issue is, I hope it'll be resolved ASAP. The LAST thing he wants to do is to let a stupid contract ruin his career and path to his ultimate goal.

    In addition, whoever is/are his current agent(s), they're NOT doing ANYTHING good for their client. I didn't see any positive impact from them this year on Evan's career development.
  2. Athena

    Athena New Member

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    SOI cast list is out, pretty much the same as last year plus Ryan Bradley, but no Evan and Sasha (yet), kinda strange. I guess this means Evan is still serious about Nationals.

    No SOI, no Disson shows, no touring outside US, no competition. I'm not sure what's next for Evan, but this doesn't look good at all. He's living a high maintenance life style, hiring the most expensive coach, choreographer, custome designer in the world, training at elite level is never cheap. And he'll probably pay fine to ISU for withdrawing from GP for no medical reason. If, like Hersh and most people speculated, the dispute is all about money, what did he gain? Nothing. How much did he lose? A lot.

    Unless his agent has other big plan to back it up, I don't get the point.
  3. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    Maybe he should listen to Frank C and not his agent?
  4. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    None of us are privy to what Frank or CAA has advised Evan to do.
  5. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I'm less surprised about Cohen, who has phoned in almost every SOI performance I've seen her in after her first year.

    His past SOI or DWTS earnings should cover a year of elite training, and he does have endorsement money to cover a few expensive toys. I hardly see how a splurge on an expensive hotel -- for how many days? -- will bankrupt him.

    There are two monetary penalties/restrictions listed in the GP announcement:

    1. Seeded skaters who withdraw for other than medical reasons or bereavement from an event or GPF (3.4)
    2. Seeded skaters who choose three events and withdraw from any for any reason

    In addition to monetary penalties, any seeded skater/team that withdraws from GP events before the start of GP cannot appear in other shows, events, competitions.

    Lysacek is not a seeded skater: he didn't place 1-6 at last year's Worlds. These provisions don't apply to him.

    There's also a reference to Paragraph 136.6 of the ISU regulations:
    It's written to be a sanction of the Federation that gives permission for a skater to appear in other competitions and shows, and the money deducted from any prize money earned by skaters from that Federation or payment made by the Federation. (I assume dues.)

    There's no time limit listed in Paragraph 136. If it means any skater who every appeared in the top 10 of any ISU championship, then the paragraph could apply to Lysacek.

    However, "other justified reasons" could put the onus on USFS. If USFS offers contracts to its skaters to appear in events, and those contracts are usually issued before the initial GP assignments, then Lysacek could be perfectly justified in refusing to compete in GP, since he allegedly wasn't offered a contract before the draw, and his consent was provisional.

    Also, USFS has little incentive to back down from Skate America: they've already gotten their mileage out of advertising him. By making a deal of this now, he's saying they can't do the same for US Nationals.
  6. Athena

    Athena New Member

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    Thanks kwanfan1818 for the education on ISU regulation, since the contract has never been signed, I don't think Evan should get the penalty.

    Find a little more information regarding what's included in athlete contract from CBC's SA preview.

    Evan didn't receive any financial support from USFS, so the dispute could be related to obligation or resposibilities on either or both sides.
  7. Athena

    Athena New Member

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    I totally missed the Skate America broadcasting, was there any Evan mention?
  8. skatemommy

    skatemommy Well-Known Member

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    ^ plenty. Check out the GSD forum thread about Evan not competing at SKam.
  9. Athena

    Athena New Member

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    Thanks, I just quickly read through it but didn't find much useful information. There's a comment about Tracy's speculation from CBC's broadcasting, plus a bit of Frank and Andrea's conversation from NBC's broadcasting, is that all?

    Glad to hear he's in great shape, he could easily win SA had he competed here. What a shame! Hope he'll :kickass: at Nationals (IF they can get the damn contract signed in time!!!)
  10. Athena

    Athena New Member

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    A nice Frank Carroll interview: "You can't worry about numbers, you have to skate"

    Evan mention:

    Question: Why some Evan fans would rather wasting your time and effort to argue with a few hard core anti-Evan ids in other threads than posting in his own thread?
  11. Athena

    Athena New Member

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    An interesting analysis of the dispute, which finally showed some meaningful data and facts.

    The bottom line: Lysacek, U.S. Skating both losing in dispute between them


  12. Athena

    Athena New Member

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    SOI announced cast list for 2012 tour, http://www.starsonice.com/?content=skaters, NO Evan. Does this mean he'll eventually compete at Nationals? Since USFSA pays neither prize money nor appearance fee for US Championships, the 'contract' discussion should be very simple: IN or OUT.

    Evan has set himself to 'mute' mode since May, other than the couple of articles from Phil Hersh and short quotes from Frank Carroll, we heard nothing from Evan himself. We don't know what's going on with him, how's the training going and what's his plan for the future. We can't see him in either competitions or shows. As an Evan fan, I truly hate this stituation.

    I just hope that after the long waiting, and his 6 months of intensive training, we're not doing all these for nothing.
  13. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    It is a possibility that he will participate at Nationals, because otherwise he surely would tour with SOI, wouldn´t he? And they definetely would need him there as the US reigning Olympic champion.
  14. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    From the Hersh article linked above:
    The 3 U.S. Sectional Championships (final qualification competition for 2012 Nationals, January 22-29) take place this coming week, and so the deadline for Lysacek will likely be by the week of November 21st.

    ETA: Remember that SOI is IMG-owned and Lysacek is no longer being represented by IMG -- I wonder if this could be a reason he's not included in the initial cast list? Guess we'll have to wait and see if he will do some guest spots on the tour (Ilia Kulik is not with IMG and he's participated in SOI full-time and as a guest over the years ).
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2011
  15. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    The deadline for Evan to notify USFSA if he plans to compete at nationals is November 23rd.
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Thanks for the info.
  17. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Unless Evan has something exciting to bring, I wish he would forego trying to come back this year, and let the focus be on the men who have been competing all season.
  18. Elkmaria

    Elkmaria New Member

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    I'll be excited if Evan comes back. No matter how deep the men's field already is, one more top class skater is always a good addition to the roster :) And if he comes back in good shape, I think he has a good shot at the US Nationals podium even without taking into account the inflated scores he's bound to receive as OGM. Making the podium at Worlds will be a much more challenging task though. Anyway, one more strong competitor will make the competition even more exciting.
    That said, by now I have grave doubts about his comeback. At the beginning of the season, I thought the chances were 50/50. Now I think it's 30/70. I hope I'm wrong :p
  19. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Well, what I have seen so far this season, many of the US men have been less than stellar. Many have put up scores that will not be competitive at worlds. During the SOI tour last year, Evan skated extremely well and his performance level was much better that during his Olympic season. It would be interesting to see how Evan does in competition given his better presentation skills. According to Frank Carroll, Evan is in great shape and skating great. If Frank is correct, then Evan gives team USA a better chance of earning back the third world spot for 2013.
  20. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, that is just before Thanksgiving! Since he is fighting with the USFSA, I would think that the chances of him competing at Nats or even coming back are pretty slim :(
  21. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Yes, SkateFan66, if you enjoy Evan's skating that is a good argument, especially with him being OGM. However, I think he's already hurt himself by not coming back at Skate America, and the other question of how competitive he will actually be now after taking a year off, has yet to be answered. Jeremy Abbott has two great programs this season, and perhaps he has the best chance of competing for a top three spot at Worlds. Of course, it won't be easy. But who thinks it will be easy for Evan either? IMO, Abbott being left off the 2011 Worlds team damaged U.S. chances to retain 3 spots. The guys who were sent did not perform horribly but were low-balled in the scoring, and unfortunately the judges were not buying Ryan's quads making him a Worlds challenger, plus he didn't perform to his best ability anyway.

    I think Evan and his coach worked CoP strategy very effectively, and Evan has been the ultimate hard worker b/c as he admitted in a DWTS segment, he realized early on as a skater that some of his competitors may have had more natural talent, and that it was harder for him being a tall skater. Frank was successful in helping Evan use his height to advantage, but IMHO, Evan does not excel at presentation and artistry, despite being highly rewarded on PCS by the judges. It's not for nothing that Jeremy Abbott won Nationals twice ahead of Evan, who was the favorite (and the defending Nats champ too in 2009, when Abbott won his first U.S. title).
  22. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Different strokes for different folks and all that ;) but I think Evan's presentation is pretty good - for sure, he's not an artiste like Jeremy or Dai (my faves), but he's fast and confident across the ice, and for me, his enthusiasm is infectious. In person, he looks great and skates "big," and I think the judges like that a lot.

    That said, I don't think USFS will gift Evan any National titles; as you pointed out Jeremy has soundly beaten him at Nationals twice.

    I'm a big fan of "going out while on top" but I wouldn't mind if Evan came back because (1) having a top guy pushes the other guys to greater heights, just like Kwan did for a generation of US ladies, (2) I think a team of Evan and Jeremy could regain the three Worlds spots and (3) I'd be curious to see how the DWTS experience might have influenced his skating.
  23. Athena

    Athena New Member

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    I like Evan's skating very much, especially the power, passion and command he presented on ice. I watched him skating in this year's SOI, and I was very impressed, it was much better than what I've seen on TV. Yes, artistry wise, he DID IMPROVE A LOT after DWTS.

    As for PCS, I checked the protocols of 2009 and 2010 U.S. Nationals, and Evan was NOT highly rewarded on PCS, inspite of the fact that in both years, he entered the competition as the highest ranking US man in the world.

    PCS in 2009 US Championships,

    Evan: SP: 38.29; LP: 73.78
    Jeremy: SP: 39.61; LP: 80.00

    PCS in 2010 US Championships,

    Evan: SP: 39.46; LP: 81.66
    Jeremy: SP: 40.30; LP: 86.06

    Even in 2007 US Championships, where Evan delievered (so far) his best LP performance at US Nationals (with the perfect quad-triple) and brought the house down, his PCS was only 78+.

    So I don't think USFS will treat him differently than any of the competitors, he won't be gifted with PCS or rank, he HAS to FIGHT and EARN the title as anybody else (if he IS going to compete).
  24. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your takes Athena and Cheylana. BTW, what is Evan's PCS vs Johnny's in those years, let's say from 2007 - 2010? :D
  25. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    I'd have to wager a guess that Evan was consistently out-scoring Johnny on the PCS during that time period. From 2009-10 the USFS saw Evan and Jeremy as the top two guys, and Johnny became the #3 guy.
  26. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Yes, of course, not surprising, so that's where I'd say Evan is over-scored on PCS, and also when he was scored higher than Matt Savoie too.

    Jeremy's PCS should probably have been even higher in the sps mentioned above.
  27. Athena

    Athena New Member

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    I respectfully disagree. If you dislike a skater, you'll always feel that he/she's overscored; if you like a skater, you'll always feel that he/she's underscored; that's why we're called "fans", not "judges" :). Evan vs Johnny was already history, let's not initiate the same old debate all over again; it's time to move on.

    As for Evan vs Jeremy (IF they're going to compete H2H at Nationals), the latter clearly got the edge on PCS according to their recent records at Nationals. Although I'm an Evan fan, I do think Jeremy will be the favorite going into U.S. Nationals. If he skates cleanly, Evan will have a hard time to beat him. After all, he hasn't been skating competitively for almost two years. So I just wish that Evan could stay healthy and skate to his best potential. I'll be proud of him no matter what the result will be.
  28. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    I thought Evan's PCS were mostly ok, but that Johnny's and Matt's were frequently too low. Sorry for contributing to thread drift....
  29. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    You're a great fan of Evan, Athena, and that's very admirable. So, I suppose you also "like" Jeremy (according to your logic) since you can be so objective regarding his chances at Nationals. Whatever happens it should be exciting. Even though, I too have favorites, I am able to be objective when I assess skaters' talents, believe it or not. It is definitely a subjective sport, however, filled with drama, suspense and irony.

    I'm not eager to see either Evan or Johnny return at this point. I thought that if Evan was returning it would have been to his advantage to show up at SA. Whatever happens, Nationals is always exciting, and if Evan comes back, there will be that extra dollop of excitement and competitiveness to :watch:
  30. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    Evan does not need to beat Jeremy at the Nationals, USA has two spots. In Worlds Evan has always beaten Jeremy, would it change now? Anyway, I´m a fan of both Evan and Jeremy....
  31. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    Actually, if Evan competes and if he beats Jeremy at Nats, it will be Jeremy who has the better shot at the World podium. It has been over a decade since he US men's champ was also the medalist at Worlds or Olys. I hope that Evan does compete, but I am not sure that he actually will do so.
  32. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Eys, it's the darndest thing, isn't it?!?
  33. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, there has been many interesting "statistics":

    - no man since Button has won the Olympic gold metal at his first try (Kulik did in 1998)

    - no reigning men´s World champion has won the Olympics since Scott Hamilton (Lysacek did in 2010)

    - all reigning male US World champions have won the gold medal at the Olympics
  34. Athena

    Athena New Member

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    From SOI's official twitter:

    :respec::cheer::cheer2::swoon::kickass:

    According to reliable resources, I knew that other than SOI tour, Evan was also invited by multiple Disson shows and last year's "Skating with the stars" (where he was offered multiple options), but he declined all of them :respec:. So I'm pretty sure that his dispute with USFSA was NOT about money, what they can offer is much less than what he declined from the tours and shows.

    aftershocks, thank you for the kind words, yes, I like Jeremy, but I like Evan more :D. I've watched both skating live, Jeremy looks better on TV while Evan's skating is much more impressive in person. They're both great skaters, with very different styles, I just prefer Evan's more.

    jaana, I too, wish both will make the world team. jeremy seems to lock a spot already (with the COC gold), I'll pray for Evan to win the other spot.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2011
  35. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    I like, Evan, too, always have. If the dispute with the USFSA wasn't about money, then what was it?

    In October, U.S. Figure Skating announced that he would not compete at the 2011 Skate America due to a financial disagreement, and Lysacek confirmed that he would not take part in the Grand Prix series, explaining on his twitter that "a suitable agreement could not be reached between US Figure Skating and myself by the event entry deadline".
  36. Athena

    Athena New Member

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    So far, all the speculation came from one comment from one USFS officer (which was not the official answer provided by USFSA). Knowing how much Evan has sacrificed to come back to competition, none of the "money" rumor makes sense to me. So, I too was puzzled about the real reason. But if Evan wants to keep everything low key, I'll respect his decision.

    Now the only thing that matters to his fans is that he'll be back, and we'll be there cheering for him again. :)
  37. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    We'll know soon enough.
  38. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    Well, then, what do you think Evan's tweet means? What kind of agreement between USFSA and "himself"..?

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/keyword/evan-lysacek
  39. Athena

    Athena New Member

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    I wish I knew, but I don't ;). "Contract" is a very complicated legal document, fortunately, it's none of our business :lol:. If he competes at U.S. Championships, it'll confirm that the dispute was not about money, because, as USFSA said, there'll be neither award money nor appearance fee. :rolleyes:

    Missing SOI is a good sign, I hope Evan's ready for the return. It's been a long waiting for his fans, and we finally see the light from the end of the tunnel. :swoon:
  40. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    Or, if he competes because he really wants to, he will have come to the realization that there is no money..While, in truth, nothing is "our business' once it hit the media people speculated and discussed it. Plus, Evan made the news by saying he would return. Hey, we're on a forum, we discuss pretty much everything..Evan is afterall an OGM, he's news.
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