ESPN docum on Tonya-Nancy: 20 Years After on Thurs, Jan 16

Discussion in 'TV ALERTS' started by Frau Muller, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. BaileyCatts

    BaileyCatts Well-Known Member

    5,986
    486
    83
    ^ I don't recall where I read it, but I think I read that a reporter had found Shane, but he declined to be interviewed and asked the reporter to not reveal his whereabouts because he has turned his life around, has a job, a family, and doesn't even look much like he did back in 1994, and the people in his circle of life now don't even know that about his past. He did not want the publicity to interfere with his job or family. I don't know why I would think this unless I read it somewhere in the past few months with all the 20 year articles, etc.
     
  2. Karina1974

    Karina1974 Well-Known Member

    2,666
    240
    63
    ^^^A note of that was made during the ESPN documentary. IMO that is the smartest thing anyone involved in that whole fiasco could do. Take responsiblity for and fully own your actions, and then move on and put it behind you and don't let anyone drag you back into the morass.
     
  3. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

    3,309
    1,213
    113
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
    Integrity and (deleted member) like this.
  4. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

    3,997
    194
    63
    Thanks for the link. I would also think that if Tonya really hadn't known about the attack beforehand, Stant would come out now and say so. I mean, what would he have to gain by continuing such a lie to this day?

    If that's true, that might be my only concern. It's one thing to distance yourself from your past--it's another thing to try to hide it. Hopefully he isn't trying to do that, because it never works in the long run. :) I like the fact that he's not trying to get any further publicity, though--lends more credibility to the idea that he's tried to turn his life around.
     
  5. BaileyCatts

    BaileyCatts Well-Known Member

    5,986
    486
    83
    ^^ Well, like I said, its just sort of in my mind that I think this and I don't recall where I read or heard it, or why I would think this unless I read it or heard it. :lol: Since Karina mentions the ESPN documentary said it, I think that's where I got the thought from.
     
  6. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

    17,077
    3,562
    113
    There was a bit in the ESPN documentary but I think you got it from an article that was linked in this thread. There were more details in the article than in the documentary which hardly talked about Stant at all.
     
  7. Muffin

    Muffin New Member

    451
    28
    0
    Gillooly was once asked whether he was mad that Tonya got away with it and he didn't. He replied that he was much better off admitting what he did, serving his time and getting on with his life, whereas Tonya was going to spend the rest of her life living the lie. He was right.

    This cracked me up from the Shane Stant article linked above:
    Nobody is ever fair to poor Tonya.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2014
  8. Fiero425

    Fiero425 Member

    261
    7
    18
    I had dropped figureskating as "must see tv" after 80 Olympics and Worlds! Was never a fan of Scott, Brian, Katarina, or Debbie for that matter so I pretty much dropped it until "The Whack Heard Around The World!" I latched onto Surya and Urmanov as my new faves and they didn't disappoint; well not too much! They were their own skaters and didn't care what the powers of FS thought and pretty much did their own thing; Alexei skating for the judges, while Bonaly thrilled the audiences! Tonya should have been cheered for bringing FS back to life! The likes of Hamilton and Boitano winning everything in the amateur ranks as well as pros didn't sit well with me and about ran me off again until Evgeni took over the scene! He's amazing and surpassed all expectations!
     
  9. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

    3,121
    634
    113
    Or, she could have taken a hybrid approach: denied prior knowledge in 1994 and then largely retreated from public life.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  10. cmk

    cmk New Member

    22
    1
    3
    In the article, Stant did admit he never met Tonya in person or spoke to her on the phone. The only one he communicated with was Jeff. He didn't know if Tonya was involved or not. If you would of actually read the article, you would have noticed where he said he never had any contact with Tonya at all.
     
  11. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

    3,997
    194
    63
    I went back to look at the article, and I can't find any of that. It's a long article, so I could have missed it. Could you please post the relevant quotes here?

    Again, please post the part you're referring to. Thanks.
     
  12. Muffin

    Muffin New Member

    451
    28
    0
    I think you just have to look at his description of his activities to see that Tonya wasn't there and didn't talk to him on the phone.

    It's been established in previous documentaries that Stant never had any direct contact with Tonya, so it would be big news if he suddenly said he talked to her on the phone or something.

    I think that's the main reason why the FBI couldn't prosecute Tonya - the co-conspirators all dealt with Jeff, and none of them could testify to anything specific about Tonya's activities, even though it was their understanding that she was in on it.
     
  13. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

    3,997
    194
    63
    That conclusion is a bit of a stretch just from reading that article. :) cmk stated emphatically that the article explicitly mentioned certain things, which I don't see. Maybe he or she is just getting creative and embellished his/her version of the article a bit. ;)

    I can agree with that. Yes, I've seen similar things in previous articles. However, I suspect he probably had some idea of whether Tonya was involved or not.

    There's some truth to that, but what about Tonya's bodyguard? :lol: Funny how 20 years ago he was her bodyguard, but apparently now he was just a "big, fat idiot." ;) Shawn Eckhardt always said that Tonya was involved, and he's someone who would've known. He obviously had some interaction with her. I doubt he would have continued saying that if he knew all along that she had never been involved.

    On a different note, it's interesting that Nancy is still implying she thought the judging was unfair. Specifically, she said that her program had "more content" than Oksana's. Well, I think she meant, "I had a triple-triple, but Oksana didn't." So, in terms of jumps, yes, she had more difficulty. But apart from the triple-triple, how else did that weak, insipid, front-loaded program have "more content"?? Inquiring minds want to know. ;)

    And as for Evy Scotvold, how do you throw a lamp "gently" (or whatever word he used) across the room? :D
     
  14. Muffin

    Muffin New Member

    451
    28
    0
    Perhaps Nancy was referring to standing mostly still at center ice and waving her arms. She did that three times, Oksana only did it two. Plus, Nancy's arm waving was done with a serious face; it showed maturity. ;) Since the tiebreaker was one-tenth of a point on artistry, I think it was Oksana's sassy faces and shaking her rear end like a bunny that put her over the top.

    Seriously though, Nancy's correct that she had more jump content. Each of them wound up with 5 triple jumps in their program; none of Oksana's triples were done in combination, whereas Nancy did a triple-triple and a triple-double. They each wound up with a stand-alone double axel and an unintentional stand-alone double jump - but Nancy's double jump, the flip, was more difficult than Oksana's double toe. Oksana did have an additional double axel that was done in combination, however she flutzed egregiously, her flip was landed solidly on two feet and that double toe at the very end wasn't even remotely rotated, so Nancy still has the edge.
     
  15. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

    3,997
    194
    63
    :lol:

    But she didn't say "more jump content." She just said "more content," which implies that she thinks jumping is all there is. Maybe that's why she front-loaded her program. ;)

    Good analysis. In terms of jumps overall, certainly Nancy had the edge. But as the following article points out:

    The technical merit of a skater's performance should be judged on more than a simple checklist of jumps, Lindgren said...."Most of the journalists, unfortunately, but also the judges [over]emphasize jumps. We want to see good programs...."

    http://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/27/s...udges-judge-says-baiul-deserves-the-gold.html

    Incidentally, I get so tired of this "Oksana won by one-tenth of a point from one judge!" nonsense we always hear. No, she won 5 judges to 4--any one of them could have gone the other way.
     
  16. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

    3,997
    194
    63
    Apparently the ESPN documentary is now up on YouTube as well:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUdW6x5rUEQ

    Speaking of YT, I watched Chen Lu's and Yuka Sato's LPs from Lillehammer. I think I would have placed Yuka first in the LP and Chen second. Nancy and Oksana would have been fighting for third. Yuka and Chen had better jumping than Oksana, better programs than both Oksana and Nancy, better non-jump content and speed than Nancy, and much better presentation than Nancy. In addition, Yuka landed a triple lutz, a triple flip, and *two* triple loops. She also landed a 6th triple, a salchow, which unfortunately wouldn't count, because it wasn't in combination.

    My scores would be something like:

    Yuka
    5.8
    5.9

    Chen
    5.8
    5.8 (she touched her hand to the ice on her final jump)

    Oksana
    5.6
    5.9

    Nancy
    5.8
    5.7
     
  17. canbelto

    canbelto Well-Known Member

    1,447
    168
    63
    The "big, fat idiot" part made me lose sympathy for Tonya. Shawn Eckhardt is dead -- he died of natural causes in 2008. But he changed his name, and led a quiet life away from the press. No matter what he was to Tonya in 1993, she shouldn't be calling him a "big, fat idiot" when he's no longer here to defend himself.

    It makes her sound unkind, spiteful, just mean.
     
  18. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

    14,606
    2,489
    113
    Thank you for confirming this. I had heard it earlier.

    Tonya really has no idea of civilized behavior.
    Just "beyond the pale".
     
  19. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

    3,997
    194
    63
    Well, he participated in another assault and was sentenced to 3 years' probation in 2001.

    I agree. I have sympathy for the "thugs" involved too. They obviously were very messed up, but at least Stant appears to be on the right track.

    Incidentally, one reason I don't think Tonya was the mastermind is that the crime had male written all over it IMO. Women don't commit crimes as often as men, but when they do, they're usually not violent ones. If a woman is going to kill someone, she's more likely to go for something like poison. Although Tonya is a tomboy, I still don't think she would've thought of attacking Nancy on her own. Instead of attacking Nancy physically, if Tonya were coming up with a plot, I think she'd have been more likely to go for attacking Nancy's reputation. You know, spreading vicious rumors about her or hiring a photographer to catch Nancy and Jerry together--or something like that. ;)
     
  20. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

    3,997
    194
    63
    If you think that's bad, wait till you read this:

    http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19940215&slug=1895374

    Sumners saw Harding's lack of compassion during Flowers' painful death from bone cancer.

    "Tonya has no regard for people," said Sumners, who considered Flowers her second mother. "She had no respect for Barbara's feelings. When Barbara was in all of that pain, Tonya never showed any feeling for her. She never showed any compassion.
     
  21. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

    3,121
    634
    113
    Eh, the women's prisons are full of unladylike criminals.
     
  22. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

    3,121
    634
    113
    Duplicate post, sorry.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  23. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

    3,121
    634
    113
    Duplicate post, sorry.
     
  24. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

    3,997
    194
    63
    That may be true, but it mostly just distracts from the main question:

    Of all violent crimes committed, what percent are committed by women?

    Besides, if the FBI never considered Tonya the mastermind (in spite of what Nancy said on NBC--she seems to have misspoken), I don't know why any of us would. ;)
     
  25. Morry Stillwell

    Morry Stillwell Well-Known Member

    1,326
    309
    83
    The FBI did consider Tonya to be the principle conspirator and presented that evidence to the Portland District Attorney. The District Attorney decided to go for the plea bargin and did not want to prosecute
     
  26. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

    3,997
    194
    63
    Can you please corroborate this with some links to articles? None of the newspaper accounts that I've read agree with this assertion. They pretty much all say that the FBI determined that Jeff Gillooly was the mastermind, something that even Jeff himself agrees with. Why would he cover for Tonya, even to this day? That makes no sense. Besides, if they had enough evidence to nail Tonya as the mastermind, why would they not have prosecuted? That also makes no sense. It even disagrees with Nancy's assertion that they didn't really have any hard evidence.
     
  27. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    7,139
    618
    113
    Some interesting tidbits I learned this year about Tonya Harding:

    Other skaters usually got out of her way at the rink, on an off the ice.

    She was usually friendly w/ skaters who were NOT a threat.

    The buzz in the ladies' locker room immediately post-whack at '94 Nationals was that Tonya was involved. I think Elaine Zayak said that in her TSL interview
     
  28. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

    31,363
    8,600
    113
    but she didnt commit, she may have planned it. if true, she wouldnt be the first female to hire a hitman to do something she couldnt get away with doing herself.
     
  29. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

    3,121
    634
    113
    Jeff Gillooly probably knew he was a pathetic girly-man, riding the coattails of a ladies figure skater who looked like a stripper working the afternoon shift next the airport. Do you really think he'd admit that he was so whipped by her that the hit was her idea?
     
  30. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

    3,997
    194
    63
    Fair enough--let's ask this question then:

    Of all violent crimes committed, what percent are planned by women? ;)