Discussion in 'Moves In The Field' started by babbyrabbit, Aug 29, 2012.
So I finally got my edea concertos. The front feels fine, but the area around my Achilles feels quite loose. It doesn't feel secure. I asked the rep if that was normal and he said it was and to maybe wear thick socks. Thick socks? I always thought we were supposed to wear thin socks or even no socks. Anyone ever have problems with the Achilles area feeling loose?
My heel feels a bit loose in my Harlicks, but not my Achilles area, specifically. I wouldn't do the thick sock thing, but I might try a Bunga ankle sleeve and see if that helps. I wear them to prevent the top edge of my skates from biting into my calves and giving me big ole scars that glow when I get a sunburn (overall, not an attractive look), but I'm thinking they may help with filling the Achilles area so you feel more secure there.
I have read a lot of people say there is "no break in time" with Edea. FWIW, my last pair of Riedells had no break in time either. It just depends on the brand and the stiffness. Many people purchase boots that are just too stiff for them.
I would disagree with the person who said you need to wear thick socks to make them fit? This person sounds like they don't know how to fit skates properly. You're supposed to wear either thin socks or no socks with skates.
No to thick socks - in any type of skate - your rep sounds like he doesn't know what the heck he is talking about. The beauty of Edeas is that they should be able to mold the skate around your problem areas so that things like that aren't happening. In fact, they molded mine so that the Achilles area was snugger. Sounds to me like you need to talk to an actual fitter experienced with them. Are you in the US?
Doesn't sound to me like a loose heel is something that can be fixed. Don't settle for socks or anything to fill up the fit. Seems to me like you need a new pair, fit to the heel. I would demand a replacement. Custom skates are supposed to be, well, CUSTOM.
Edeas aren't custom, they are customizable. Think stock boot that can be shaped and manipulated using a heat gun. As long as the basic fitting is correct (my first boots weren't but they replaced them) they can be adjusted.
I have friend with very narrow heels. She told me that every si months or so, she brings her Edeas to the Edea dealer to have the heels "squeezed." Apparently they reheat them and then clamp the sides of the heel areas to make them fit tighter.
Yep, I think I'm going to have to ask them squeezed. The heels are still a bit wide and same with the top of the front of my foot. In the meantime, a friend at the rink gave me some wet suit material to cut out and help fill in the gap at the top front part of the foot. That seemed to help quite a bit, but I'd rather have the boot fit well instead of using fillers.
I wouldn't say there is no break in period with the concertos. Sure--they don't feel like wooden shoes like my last pair of SP Teri's did when I got them. However, it took about three one hour sessions to feel like the boots felt like they had adjusted to my feet or vice versa. If it's your first time in an edea concerto, it might take a couple of sessions to get used to the higher heel and the boot as well. The flex is all in the tongue.
I had my phantom specials transferred from my old SP Teri's to my Edeas, and even skating backwards took some getting used to.
That being said, I'm starting to really like them.
I think most girls like them because they have a nifty silver sparkly design and have silver sparkly soles. Brilliant marketing. However, for the most part, they are way too stiff for the vast majority of skaters out there. Stiffness does not equal better. Skates that are too stiff are a major cause of injuries to the knees and hips.
Maybe the brand just isn't right for you. No matter what claims manufacturers make about heat molding, sometimes the last and the cut don't match your feet and ankles. But heavy socks? The guy has no clue what he's talking about. Do not buy skates from him again.
I have been in the skate business for 15 years. I few words about Edea.
As for the life span and the lacing problems... edea skates are made to forward flex only with the stretching of the laces, the boot itself is never supposed to crease or flex. They are totally different than a traditional leather boot. I do not like them and do not think they are better than traditional boots. The flaw in their system is that skaters will, with time, bend the carbon fiber shell that is not supposed to flex. once it bends and cracks, it is destroyed.
As for the size and customizing. It turns out that edea boots ARE available in multiple widths from the manufacturer in Italy and available in multiple widths everywhere in the world EXCEPT the US. I attempted to import narrower widths and was turned down (imagine how it would look on al the current dealers after all this time). Skates US, the exclusive US distributor is not interested in the expense of stocking the various widths. Instead they say they can be "customized", only that does not change the volume of the skate that a narrower boot would. This is why the heel is too wide for some, and why they break down easily. "Shaping" the boot by squeezing here and there does not take the extra volume out of the boot.
In my opinion, compared to every other option out there, Edea is overpriced, overhyped and over recommended ( i've seen 5 year olds with $ 500.00 edeas) . There are a few people who can use them successfully, but the vast majority of skaters would be better served with traditional leather or composite boots.
I have new Edea Ice Flies. I am 45 years young, and skated as a kid. I've skated in them for 4 sessions. I am taking it slow. I also have new blades, and they are completely different blades.
Good: They are light. I can get great extension in them. My Harlicks were almost 3 pounds per leg, and these are just over a pound less per leg. My old skates caused me to have some hip & back issues because of the weight. I could tap my heels in a waltz jump in my old skates, but it was harder.
The Edeas do feel different, in that they forward flex. They are just as strong on the side. I did a sit spin yesterday, and it was fine. My Harlicks had a double cutout in the ankle, so I could also flex alot in them too.
I absolutely love the thin sole under the balls of my feet. I can really feel & control the blade. That is a huge plus. I am not cold in my boot, but I am in Florida.
Bad: I have alot of foot issues, and my feet cramped in my Harlicks about 10 minutes into the skating. I have had ankle tendon surgery, plantar issues, and still have a bauer bump. In my Harlicks, I could work out the cramps in about 5 minutes of just barely stroking around. Almost every time I skated, I had foot cramps in my Harlicks.
In my Edeas, I am having mega cramping. I have to take alot of breaks. I do work out the cramps, but it takes about a full hour of skating, taking breaks, etc. The fitter said that the cramps are probably caused by my feet muscles getting used to the boot & blade. I read on skiing forums that the cramps in ski boots are caused by foot muscles over working or the skier tensing his feet up in a ski boot. In Harlicks, there was some padding, but it was alot firmer padding and alot of the boot wasn't padded (except for the heel huggers). What I think could be going on is that the memory foam on the inside the Edea allows my foot to not be slammed against firmer padding or hard elk leather. Perhaps this little bit extra padding is causing my foot muscles to work harder and/or tense up. It could also be the new blade that I am tensing my feet more. (But, my new blades ares awesome. My moves in the field, figures, and spins are super crisp.) I read another skater had the similar cramping in her Edeas, and it went away in 2 weeks. I am hoping. I am also going to tape my foot/arch with athletic tape and bought an insert. I may have to end up going to my podiatrist to make an orthodic. If these don't work out, then I'll go back to Harlick, but get their lighter version.
The truth is that they DON'T fit everyone. As someone else said, heat-moldable skates fit average feet best. That said, the skating boot industry is like any other industry when it comes to manufacturers wanting to increase market share for their products while reducing costs. Heat molding is a way to get a fit resembling a custom fit without actually paying for a custom boot. The materials, being plastic and synthetic, are less expensive than leather. And of course there will be lots of marketing and lots of giveaways to top skaters. Part of the marketing is the appearance of the boot; Edea struck gold when it made the Ice Fly shimmery and sparkly--perfect to appeal to pre-teen and teen girls. But is it the right boot? Probably not for every young skater who claims to love them. The Ice Fly is way, way too much boot for most skaters.
Cramping is caused by reduced circulation in the foot. Something about the boot is creating this, which suggests that Edea boots might not fit you despite what might seem like comfort. Maybe your old Harlicks were a bit off in the fit, also. I had a pair of custom Harlicks that were not quite right and I got dreadful cramping. (Another pair was perfect. They were fitted by different people.) You might be needing to tie the Edeas tighter, which might be part of the problem. That said, Edea does not work for me. After experimenting with several brands of heat-moldable boots and not liking any of them, I went to Klingbeil. (I'm still a fan of Harlick.) I've had Klingbeil ever since--and not one bit of cramping ever.
(Of course, Klingbeil might be done with skates for awhile now that Will--their best fitter/maker--has defected to Avanta. I think I might explore them for my next pair. They appear to be Klingbeil in everything be stitching and name.)
Update: I had good success on Friday skating. I was able to last 45 minutes on the ice with very minimal cramping. I retied the Edea skates from the toe, upwards. I tied the toe looser through the ball of the foot, arch tight, and top medium. I was alot happier camper. I think I had the toes too tight before.
I did adjust the boots with a hair drier for two bone issues over the weekend. Hope tomorrow at work, I am able to take a lunch break and skate.
I bought a pair of new-in-the-box Edea Ice Flies from a friend for half price, since her mother had bought them for her and she never ended up moving into them. They are the right length, but of course not the right width. Since I was told they could be stretched, that's what I had done to them in the ball of the foot. 3 times, in fact! They didn't feel too bad at first, but my arches would cramp after I'd skated in them for 10 minutes or so, and on the left side (my slightly bigger foot) my circulation to the toes would get cut off. They felt tight at the top of the instep, under the tongue, even if I loosened the lacing a little in that area (which Edea does not recommend). That's right where I've got a protruding bone and a vein right next to it that is probably getting pinched. I haven't had a chance to skate in them since the third stretching, but will report back if and when I do. I'm sticking to my SP Teri's for this season, though.
In my experience, cramping in the arch means the boot is too narrow in the front. It is not something that anyone should have to go through just because they are "breaking in" new boots. When I finally got custom SP Teri KT2's that were B+/C- width in the front instead of B width, they did not cramp like they did in my two previous pairs that were B width. Not even when they were brand new.
Update! I am now VERY HAPPY in my Edea boots. If anything hurts in them, then you have to do the punch out with the hairdryer and a screwdriver handle end. These are not leather boots and are not going to really stretch alot more. I did the final punch out over the weekend for an ankle bump and skated without pain or cramps.
Jeezus! Thick socks?!? Red flags should go up. He has lost all credibility.
That's the route I'm planning to go too, do you know if anybody here has gotten a pair to try out yet?
My (older) kids all skate in Edeas and love them. There is a bit of a learning curve on fitting and tying them. Neither the kids nor I work for or represent Edea, but being into double digits in the number of Edea skates purchased, we have some experience. Here a some comments and suggestions (some from experience, but many available on the SkatesUS website):
NEVER let the pro shop (or anyone) put Edeas in an oven to heat mold, it will ruin the skates. There is carbon fiber inside, which provides the actual support and it will melt at about 200 degrees (even a hot car can hurt them). To mold, use a hair dryer (NOT a heat gun) to get it to about 190 degrees and you will feel the sides get soft enough that you can mold them by hand to the exact shape you want. I have been seen at our local mall which has a rink in it, sitting by the boards with a hair drying fine-tuning a fit for the kids.
Learn to tie them as designed. The top hooks should be the same width or wider than the second and third hook. Many skaters find this uncomfortable/strange feeling at first because they tie their traditional leather skates as tight as possible at the top and are accustom to that snugness, which is also needed when the leather starts to soften and provide less support. Edeas get their support from the inner carbon fiber shell, so in theory will never have reduced support. Edeas are designed to have the top is a little looser to allow the lower leg to move forward without pulling the back of the skate forward while the tongue provides support and acts as a shock absorber (nice for getting low on spins and girls doing triple throws). What happens when you tie them too tight? Best case, they crease (which if caught early can be heated and worked out). Worst case, if you are bigger and doing lots of triples, the stress can pull the top hook out of the skate (we learned that one the hard way).
Tip on sizes, especially for narrower or wider feet. Edea measures sizes in millimeters (260, 265, 270, etc.). The soles on the sizes ending in '5' are the same size as the next size up (eg. the soles on 265 is the same size as 270). The difference is there is more upper material over the toe in the size ending in '0'. You will not be able to get any more length out of them, but you get get a little extra width from the extra material. So if you are between sizes (most are) then go with the '5's for narrower feet and the '0's for wider feet and heat pinch/stretch as needed.
Socks - My kids tried no socks (the boys because that is how Patrick Chan skates), but the material inside the Ice Flys is different and it is not recommended (side note on Patrick Chan, purely through the rumor mill. Patrick skates in Concertos, presumably because he can skate barefoot. However, they look like Ice Flys, which have a different, shinier shell material than the other Edea skates. I am told he gets these custom made with that material on the exterior, which must be a perk of being a three time world champion). Wal-Mart sells socks that are hose/nylons material and are packaged in little plastic bubbles (like in gumball machines). They are 3 for a $1, so I just stock up every few weeks and dump them in skate bags.
Break in - The Edeas should have a much shorter break-in period because of the design. Traditional leather skates need to bend some with the skater's leg, so the leather needs to be worked some to get broken in. The Edeas should not bend with the skater (other than some flexing of the tongue) so the break-in should be quick.
I hope this is helpful to anyone interested.
These posts are extremely helpful to me. I am an adult skater that heavily skated in my twenties. Now, at ~40, I'm just looking to get back on the ice while my boys practice hockey. I purchased a new pair of Edea Chorus skates 2 1/2 years ago because I could no longer fit into my Harlicks. I've now still only worn them a handful of times and even had the blade adjusted and had orthotics added in due to the pain. I never had pain like this formerly in Riedell or Harlicks, but every pair of skates I tried on in the store was two tight by the toes and Edea felt comfortable.
While I'm not in pain by the toes, based on these posts, I wonder if it is still a bit too tight by the front of the boot. The heel is definitely not too tight and I even wonder if it's tight enough. My pain is all in the arch/heel area and this occurs every time after only ten minutes of stroking. SkaterDad & SkatingIsFun1...if I try and use a hair dryer on the front of the boot...how do I go about doing this? I heat from the inside and use pressure from my hands/screwdriver handle?
I'd like to get back on the ice (especially with winter coming), but at the moment I am still in the 'I hate EDEA' group. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Try watching this video. How they are tied can make a big difference for foot pain. Also, make sure they are laced correctly.
I've watched two videos on tying Edeas properly and believe I'm doing it correctly. Like others on this thread however, the pain on the heel is immense.
Haven't had heel pain, so no ideas for you there.
The pain may have nothing to do with the skates. Are your orthotics designed for figure skates? Regular running shoe orthotics have too high a heel bed to fit skates properly. The other thing to check is your metatarsal arch. It could be that you need a metatarsal pad added to your orthotics. It might be worth going back to whoever made the orthotics, or seeing a physiotherapist who specializes in sports and / or feet.
I can only speak for myself, but, as I posted earlier, I have always gotten cramping in the arches of my feet when the boots are too narrow in the ball (front) of the foot. Do you have a wide ball and narrow heel?
Sounds like a pair of custom skates would be better than trying to customize skates. Big difference.
Actually custom orthotics are quite different from custom skates. If there are structural problems with your feet having some like http://www.kintec.net with trained foot specialists asses foot, ankle and stride issues, take of mold of the feet and the make orthotic specifically designed for skates can make the difference between skating and not. It is also a lot less expensive as orthotics, once your feet are fully grown, can be moved from one pair of stock boots to another. Finally, if you need orthotic support in your skaters, you usually need it in your off ice training shoes as well as your regular footwear. Running shoe orthotics and dress shoe orthotics can be made from the same foot mold and generally there is a discount for additional sets.
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