Duggar Family - New season....and now a new courtship!

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by ilovepaydays, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    30,242
    Didn't the Duggars already have 16 or 17 kids by the time the show started? I don't doubt that they are interested in keeping in TLC's employment, but I don't think the show is the reason they have so many kids. I think they would have kept on having kids even without the show. Michelle may be addicted to being pregnant, but that is not a result of having a show.
     
  2. jenniferlyon

    jenniferlyon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2002
    Messages:
    2,351
    They had a couple of TV specials before the regular series began. The first one was called "14 Children and Pregnant Again." There were a couple more specials where they had sixteen kids. The first season of the regular series was "17 Kids and Counting."

    And yes, I think they would keep having kids even if there wasn't any TV show.
     
  3. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Messages:
    13,883
    The show has allowed them to complete their home, travel more extensively; and enjoy a better lifestyle than they would have had without TLC.
    Not to mention the "fame" and public attention it has given to their beliefs.
     
  4. merrywidow

    merrywidow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2001
    Messages:
    4,420
    I laughed at the reactions to Derrick & Jill's "frontal" hug & also "they're holding hands now". I tho't Ben looked about to kiss Jessa more than once so wonder if they do off camera & away from prying eyes (read Michelle, Jim Bob, etc.)
     
  5. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,183
    They are holding hands now because they are engaged. Different from courting.

    However, the Duggars have always said in interviews the kids set their own rules for their courting and engagement purity standards. Based on the reaction to the hug, that is so clearly not true. Michelle and Jim Bob set the rules.
     
  6. jenniferlyon

    jenniferlyon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2002
    Messages:
    2,351
    Yeah, sure. They set their own rules that just so happen to be the same rules that their parents want them to set for themselves. It's just like how none of the older girls "choose" to wear pants and none of the adult children of either gender "choose" to go to college, get a conventional job, or enlist in the military.
     
  7. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,183
    But obviously they didn't. Jill was perfectly happy hugging Derrick. It was Michelle who freaked out about that "mistake".
     
  8. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,540
    So far I really like Derrick. He seems very normal compared to the Duggars.
     
  9. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Messages:
    13,883
    I wonder how "normal" the Duggars will allow him to be.
     
  10. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,540
    Apparently Jill wants to have as many kids as God want her to, just like her mom. Oh Jill. I had hopes for you.
     
  11. ArtisticFan

    ArtisticFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,418
    That is well and good to say at this point, but who knows what she will say in the future. She has seen births in her studying to be a midwife and raised some of her brothers and sisters. But Derrick comes from a smaller family and is more than likely going to have the opportunity to open her eyes to a wider world or at least a more moderate view. With any luck they will be able to travel and experience life without caring for child after child.

    It is no wonder she thinks in those terms. She has been raised in a world where her mom is celebrated for fertility. The other families she has been around are the same. These ATI and Gothard following groups seem to only find value in a woman as a mom and birthing machine. I hope that Derrick and his family can show Jill that she has more to offer the world.
     
  12. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    17,656
    There's nothing wrong with having a lot of kids if that's what you value. As long as she's doing it because that really is what she values. And as long as she really means "as many as God wants her to," not "as many as she expects God to give her." As others have said, Michelle visiting a fertility doctor at her age, after 19 kids, and hoping to "catch a baby" appears to have everything to do with what she wants and nothing to do with what God might want.
     
  13. orientalplane

    orientalplane Mad for mangelwurzels

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    Messages:
    10,711
    Well, bearing in mind the damage overpopulation is doing to the world (which is not always very obvious in rich countries), it would be easy to make a case against it.
     
    halffull and (deleted member) like this.
  14. ArtisticFan

    ArtisticFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,418
    The problem I see is that for the Duggar children it isn't an educated or logically considered choice. As nuts as Michelle and Jim Bob are to me, they consciously decided to forego birth control in their spiritual exploration of their early 20s. They knew the risks, challenges, and consequences, as they both had semi-normal upbringings and education. Had Michelle chosen not to marry at 17, she could have gone to college and/or found a career. Maybe she would have still chosen to be a mom, but she had choices. Her parents were not limiting her choices in the name of modesty or religion.

    My sadness and fear for Jill and the other daughters is that they feel pressured or required. Even with Josh and Anna there was a horrible pressure to reproduce immediately. The number of pregnancy tests Anna went through in the four months after their wedding was insane.

    I hope that Jill and Derrick enjoy married life and getting to know each other sans chaperone before making a permanent decision about children and family size. Jill has said in the past that she would like to do missionary work. Derrick has already. Delaying children for a while would make that more possible. Although that being said, I think they will have several children. Jill seems to actually enjoy children and doesn't seem as bitter or passively resentful as some of her sisters.
     
  15. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,183
    If Jill and Derrick eschew birth control, but don't chart her cycle to make sure they can do everything they can to have a baby as often as possible (Michelle seems to use NFP, but opposite how must people do), they might have a more reasonable 8-10 kids.

    I don't think they'll delay them. I don't remember the exact number, but Anna took like 11 pregnancy tests in the first 3 months of her marriage. You get married TO have kids. If they want to do missionary work though, Derrick may persuade her to space the kids out. I don't see them using any sort of birth control though. That's just not going to happen.

    At least Jill knows what she is getting into. She's been the primary caregiver to most of Michelle's children after the newborn stage.
     
  16. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,540
    At least Jill knows what she is getting herself in. I hope they move away as soon as they get married to they dont have the pressure from the Duggars and the show about the pregnancy tests and all the drama.
     
  17. skategal

    skategal Bunny slave

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,723
    Yes, I'm hoping they will go on the mission field right away. It will get them away from Jim Bob and Michelle and Jill will get to meet more moderate Christians and to help inform her own views of how she wants to live while being away from the pressure of mom and dad.
     
  18. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,183
    I just couldn't stop laughing reading about this. In how many worlds are missionaries "more moderate Christians"? Just to the Gothardites/Vision Forum families.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2014
  19. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,540
    Maybe just moderate in the amount of children they have?
     
  20. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,215
    What do you think would happen if one of the Duggars married someone with fertility problems, have they ever expressed their views on adoption?
     
  21. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,183
    The Duggars have said a few times they are "praying about adoption"- but other boards have always speculated that that is just a facade, that Jim Bob and Michelle would never adopt because ATI (the organization they are affiliated and heavily involved with)/Bill Gothard is against adoption- being that children carry the sins of their fathers.

    But "save the orphan" seems pretty common in Christianity right now, so depending on who the spouse is, some of them may end up adopting with the idea they were "called by God", even if not because they were infertile. Jill especially seems to be one of the girls who was incredibly moved when they visited foreign orphanages.

    They have hosted families on their show who have multiple adopted kids.

    I would worry that within the greater family an adopted child might be slightly discriminated against- the "I delivered everyone of them" is said with such a sense of importance in their show opening... but I don't have much to base that thought on.
     
  22. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,540
    I never understood the "children carry the sins of their fathers". Isnt christian god all about how each human is created in his image and how baptism erases the original sin? Even if you do carry sins from you father, what is the baptism for?
     
  23. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    17,656
    To clarify that, evangelical Christianity teaches that it's repentance and belief, not baptism, that cleanse from sin. Baptism is simply an outward sign of that repentance and belief.

    If Gothard teaches that children carry the sins of their fathers, that's some twisted teaching of his own. But then Gothard is pretty screwed up in general.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2014
  24. skategal

    skategal Bunny slave

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,723
    I know it's pretty funny. I know many extreme right wing fundamental Christians that are way more moderate than the Duggars. The women are allowed to work outside the home, choose a mate and use birth control. Imagine! :rofl:


    No. Most missionaries would have way more moderate views than the Duggars. That's saying a mouthful, isn't it?
     
  25. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    30,589
    they do seem to take an awful lot of pride in breeding as opposed to parenting
     
  26. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    10,626
    Gothard is a bit of a mess right now.
     
  27. ArtisticFan

    ArtisticFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,418
    I would doubt they would discuss fertility issues openly. It would probably be viewed as a result of some sinful action by the couple. They have supposedly blamed political losses on the side of sin in the camp so I would bet this would be another pray it away situation.

    I gather that the Duggars are very conflicted on the adoption issue. They put so much importance on the pregnancy/labor and delivery that I don't see Jim Bob and Michelle ever fully embracing adoption. In early episodes Michelle spoke of wanting a baby around. Now she talks about holding the baby and nursing the baby, clearly saying grandchildren and potentially adopted children would not satisfy her needs.
     
  28. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,300
    I thought the issue in "rich" countries was that people were not having enough children which means not as much is going back into the system to look after the much larger and continually-living-longer, elderly population of a country?

    Some European countries are even being given cash incentives to have a third child (I want to say that it's Germany that's done this but am blanking).
     
  29. zaphyre14

    zaphyre14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Messages:
    4,666
    I would rather see people like the Duggars having large families that they support themselves rather than the uncounted unmarried welfare moms having child after child after child that my tax dollars have to support. (The welfare claims office is just down the street from my office; I pass it every day and several times a week, our security guard has to shoo them out of our parking lot while they run down to put in another claim.)
     
  30. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,183
    If by "people like the Duggars" you mean millionaires, well, okay.

    If you mean ATI families, well, most of them aren't supporting themselves very well- if you read blogs from these families, many are living below the poverty line.
    The Bates (who have TV money) family has publicly stated they don't have insurance and use the emergency room when medical needs crop up. They are just as much a drain on the system: who do you think pays for the emergency care they recieve and reduced bills they negotiate for? Everyone else who carries insurance.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/bates-family-20-praying-children/story?id=14359053&page=2