Duggar Family - New season....and now a new courtship!

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by ilovepaydays, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. ilovepaydays

    ilovepaydays Well-Known Member

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    People.com - Jessa Duggar Enters Courtship with Ben Seewald
    I didn't know this: Josh Duggar moving to D.C. for political job with Family Research Council

    I live in Arlington, VA and work in DC. It would be interesting to see Josh Duggar at a Metro Station.

    I'm guess there's going to be another wedding - I don't think they would put this "courtship" on the show if there wasn't. I am wondering what's going on with Jana, John-David, and Jill. They are older than Jessa is. I'm assuming they aren't going to school, so are they just waiting around for a courtship to get out of the house?
     
  2. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

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    the whole side hug thing has me so eye rolly i need a doctor
     
  3. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    I can't wait to read the comments at FreeJinger.com :popcorn:

    I'm glad one of the Duggar girls will be (hopefully) allowed to leave the compound...
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
  4. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Josh Duggar is a "fresh new face"? Age-wise, yes, but I suspect he has the same conservative viewpoints that have pretty much discredited the legitimacy of the "research" from the Family Research Council in the past.
     
  5. Whitneyskates

    Whitneyskates Well-Known Member

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    I just don't understand this family. All they talk about is how well they've raised their children, and what strong morals and beliefs they've instilled in them -- yet they apparently don't trust them as far as they can thrown them because they never allow them to be alone.
     
  6. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    ETA: Jessa is 20 and she's in a "courtship" with a guy who's 18? Cradle robber!! :lynch:
     
  7. Spareoom

    Spareoom Well-Known Member

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    I come from the same group/background as the Duggars so I'm very familiar with the courtship thing. I do feel for them, that it has to be so public. I knew a couple who had their courtship very much in the public eye and when it didn't work out, it was very embarrassing and awkward for everyone. I think privacy is underrated when it comes to personal relationships...

    Anyway, there's a lot I don't like about courtship as some people do it...if you're entering a relationship practically sure you plan to get married, you might as well put a ring on it. Because breaking off a courtship often feels very similar to breaking off an engagement in terms of how public it is.

    Anyway, much luck and happiness to Jessa and Ben. :)
     
  8. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Jessa's very pretty. And she has good hair! LOL. I though all the girls get the same home poodle perm that the mom has, but Jessa's hair looks good and healthy.
     
  9. Lilia A

    Lilia A Well-Known Member

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    I don't get the side hug thing. They say it's so there is no 'intimate' contact, but here's the problem. If they mean upper and lower body then I'm disqualified, because a "side-hug" from me would guarantee slight contact with one of my 32DD baby girls. If they only mean lower body then I'm not sure what their concept of "Regular hug" is. I mean, it is one thing to hug tightly when you're making out and another thing to give a quick hello or goodbye hug.
    Then again there are a lot of things about the Duggars I still don't understand and probably never will.
     
  10. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    "They are enjoying getting to know each other and are recommending sermons to one another."

    And rollicking good time was had by all.

    For girls raised like the Duggars, getting married is often the only way to take that first step out the door and away--or not. Whatever happens, I hope Jessa ends up having what she wants.
     
  11. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Rollicking good time indeed. Although there are some pretty fun scripture passages out there. And good sermons. But I can't imagine they're talking about how weird them Israelites were sacrificing a dove and running around the house 7 times and having a priest ritually cleanse their homes when mold was found.

    So, Jim Bob will let his daughter marry ONLY someone who's called to the ministry? Is there something wrong with being married to a mechanic, salesperson, doctor, backhoe operator, teacher, etc?
     
  12. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    I know very little about this family, but I do hope she has not decided to just pick someone her parents deem acceptable, just to get out of the house. 20 and 18 is very young, heck 22 and 20 is very young for marriage (assuming they do the courtship thing for 2 years.) When you factor in the fact that divorce is probably next to impossible, I just hope she chooses someone she loves rather than someone her father thinks she should love.
     
  13. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    In some fundamentalist groups, almost everyone claims to be a "minister." You could be a car mechanic by day, but you still purport to have a ministry. You don't necessarily have a building, or congregation, or even a tax-exempt designation.
     
  14. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how she could. They can only communicate with others around, how do you truly find out if you are in tune with someone when you always have to censor yourself? Their texts go like this Jessa- to Duggar parents. If approved Duggar parents to guy's parents. If approved they go to the boy. He replies through his parents, which go to her parents, and then to her. According to the article, they mostly text about scripture. In person, they always have a chaperone.

    Although it is clear that Jessa has a say in this, and can say no; it is more or less an arranged marriage, not a love match. It is expected that if he has all the right qualities, she'll learn to fall in love with him.

    I just absolutely hate their insistence that courting is better than dating. The whole "not giving away pieces of your heart" bull shit. Assuming you actually do give your heart away, doesn't courting make it worse? You go in expecting to get married. That is a HUGE disappointment if you break up. Dating you think 'hey, this guy might be the one', and breaking up sucks; but it has to be in really deep before your heart is so truly broken. I really think they think dating means crazy monkey sex.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
  15. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    Families in their tradition believe that courtship should very quickly lead to marriage. It is generally less than six months from the beginning of a "courtship" until a wedding takes place. I know one couple who met in June, officially began courting in late July, were engaged in mid-August and married in November. Another couple I know of met and married in about three and a half months. The Duggars may take a bit longer as Josh and Anna apparently began courting in January, 2008 and were married in September. But they absolutely will not allow it to be over a year, let alone two years.

    I also had a student who was supposed to marry someone she had not actually met. The courtship was phone based and mostly discussions between the boy's father and her uncle. She was 16. Her mother pulled her out of the Christian school to prepare for a wedding. Not sure what happened from there, but she ended up moving to another state to live with her father about a month after she was pulled out of school and per FB, now 15 years later, she is not married at all.
     
  16. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    Not for people like the Duggars. Josh and his wife got married in 2008 when they were both 20 and they now have three kids.

    Getting out of the house is pretty damn hard; marriage is just about the only way out. That doesn't mean that's why Jessa is courting; a lot of girls are quite happy to be part of this world and I think it's pretty paternatlistic to tell them they aren't, really, they're just brainwashed. But if you are a female who DOES want out of this situation, getting married is the most acceptable first step out. And a lot of young couples from this kind of background ease their way out even more once they have their own households and get to experience some independence.
     
  17. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I think Michelle was only 18 when she got married. If anything, 20 is kind of old (and Jessa isn't the oldest girl- Jana is 23 and has no independence from her parents at all) for a religious southern girl who didn't go to college. I am from a very liberal family and got married when I was 22 (after college).

    The thing I'm surprised at is that the parents are okay with a 'younger man'. I wonder how much money his windshield repair business makes; does Jim Bob insure this 18 year old can provide for his family?

    I wonder what Michelle and JB would think if Jessa and her possibly-husband decide to wait 4 years before trying to have kids like they did.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
  18. Susan1

    Susan1 Active Member

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    Just read the article and have a bunch of questions. So what would be his job to support his new wife and all the children they are going to have? At 18? A spin-off t.v. show? This "courtship" thing pretty much sounds like arranged marriages, except they actually got to meet each other at church (of course) first. How can you learn to love someone or even just have actual feelings for them this way? It's more like a business arrangement between the parents, and the kids will just go along with it for the rest of their lives. That's marriage? I know, romantic marriage does not always/usually work out - I'm divorced - but it just seems so cold and businesslike. She has to go from raising her siblings to raising her own kids without any kind of break. Even the mother had a real life before she married and started popping out kids every nine months. I'm sure they are really nice people, but it all seems so extreme.
     
  19. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    It is extreme. And the girls I knew whose parents were planning this for them felt powerless. Mind you, these were people that were LESS extreme than the Duggars because they actually sent their children to a school instead of homeschooling. At its root, it is based on a fear of seeing your children make mistakes. If the parents control everything, they think marriages will have a better chance of working. There is also a fear of premarital expressions of sexuality. A textbook at the school I taught at advocated early marriage--even for teens still in high school--on the grounds that marriage is the best way to prevent premarital sex. Rather than teaching kids your values and trusting them to live that out, you just shelter them completely. The Duggars demonstrate this very well here. Michelle talks about how she has talked with her children from day one about chaste relationships; but instead of trusting her daughter to follow the values she taught her, she's reading her text messages. And there is so much that is unhealthy due to the lack of boundaries between parents and adult children, the sometimes intense relationships between fathers and daughters that are encouraged that some who have left are terming "emotional incest", and the powerlessness of adult children to make their own choices not only in marriage but in many matters.
     
  20. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    The formula's easy on that one. On Sunday, you declare in church that God will provide. On Monday, you sign up for WIC.
     
  21. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    That would be part of Jim Bob's obligation as Jessa's father, yes.

    .

    It's all very Victorian: http://www.datehookup.com/content-an-online-dating-guide-to-courting-in-the-victorian-era.htm
     
  22. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    It sure should be the way they have this set up, but the kid is 18. I just don't believe it.
    He'll probably have to drop out of community college :( Heck, maybe instead he'll (the to-be husband once they are married, not the father) let Jessa attend too!
     
  23. Susan1

    Susan1 Active Member

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    I have seen most of the shows. I always wonder about cousin Amy, who wears jeans and seems to have a normal life. How do they condone her behavior and include her in everything, but their own daughters are not allowed to behave that way. And why don't the daughters want to be more like Amy?
     
  24. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    Homeschooled kids in general and very religious homeschooled kids in particular are far more likely to become entrepreneurs than go to college, and are also far more likely to be successful at entrepreneurship than "normal" kids.

    But whatever the kid is doing, Jim Bob would be derelict in his duty to Jessa if he allowed her to marry someone who could not support her.

    They say they do not judge Amy and she is free to do as she likes. However, if Amy were ever to be seen as influencing the kids to live as she does, she'd be outta there--as very likely would be any of the kids who might leave.

    "And if thy right eye offend thee,pluck it out, and cast it from thee; for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish,and not that thy whole body should be cast into Hell”
     
  25. Susan1

    Susan1 Active Member

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    Alrighty then!!! :)
     
  26. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    It's not uncommon for fundamentalist parents to keep a non-believing relative or neighbor on the periphery to use as a negative example. As soon as Amy has any type of misfortune, her "lifestyle" will be cited as the cause.
     
  27. zaphyre14

    zaphyre14 Well-Known Member

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    Arranged marriages aren't just Victorian. A friend of mine who grew up in India but moved to the US about 15 years ago for college and work has married the woman his family picked out for him. He flew to India about a month before the wedding to meet her, they married and then he brought her to the US. They seem to be very happy together and are expecting their first child. It's their culture and it seems to work for them. Who am I to criticize?

    As for the Duggers, I don't get the hostility they seem to engender here. To me, watching their show is like watching orangatangs at the zoo - they do some things I can relate to and some thing that I think are deinitely wierd but it's not as if it's something that I have to approve or disapprove; it's just a whole different culture and that's what makes it interesting. Would I want to live the way the Diggars do? Not particularly but then I don't particularly want to be an orangatang either. :)
     
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  28. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Do you think it's because there's a clear network that these new entrepreneurs have to work with? I'd think the population is still quite small comparatively to a recent college grad from a standard university with its own alumni pool. Therefore, there are more opportunities for resources, guidance, and assistance. I also don't know what sort of backgrounds people who get to be religiously homeschooled have, but it seems to suggest that the family can afford to take the time to homeschool their children or afford someone to homeschool their kids exclusively. That's sort of an advantage there as well.

    I'm not saying this to negate any sort of point, which is that religiously homeschooled kids are more likely to become entrepreneurs and be successful at it than a "normal" kid. I also know that it was brought up because someone questioned if this kid can provide for his future wife. I'm just curious as to why these homeschooled kids may be more successful in that aspect.
     
  29. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    On Television Without Pity there is a poster who has adopted nephews from a family member that followed Bill Gothard and for some reason could not support the children any longer (I don't know the story there). She talks a lot about the realities of trying to mainstream them, how little they know about functioning in the world, and recently she posted "For every 1 Jim Bob or Gil Bates, there are tens if not hundreds of families living in poverty". Anna has a sister who lives in a pop-up trailer with I think 5 children. The kids probably have enough food, but they don't have much else. Honestly, I'm not sure you can even say most of them have education. Homeschool can be done right, but it can also be done very very poorly. But no, I don't think any of these people are homeschooling because they can 'afford' to have a stay at home Mom, rather they make a lot of sacrifices. When the kids are all young, it is very very hard (evidenced by Michelle's breakdown and how she talks of how much help neighbors and the church had to give her)- then the oldest take over for the mother, and the Sister Moms are born. I have no problem with kids helping out around the house, but the youngest Duggars clearly look towards their older sisters as Mothers, not towards their actual mother. (Again- this can be done better- I think the Bates family has managed to have kids helping without losing track of who is the actual mother among the youngest.)

    Even the Duggars had the 'buy used and save the difference" motto for quite some time. They were packed to the rafters in their house before TLC came through and finished the build-their-own project. (I wonder if it would even be done by now at the rate they were working on it...) TLC also furnished it. Clearly now they have plenty of money- but how much of that money is being held in trust for their children? Will their kids have any nest egg to start with?

    Jim Bob is an astute business man- he also leases land out to cell phone towers, and has several real estate investments. I think Josh's car business was orignally his too. But with 20 kids- how many businesses can he hand down?


    I had a boyfriend in high school who was homeschooled until his sophomore year. He had a lawn mowing business and now he has a large landscape business. But it took him a long time to get there (he's 30 now). He had way more ideas that were flops than he did that were successes. His family supported him for a long time, but he was one of only 5.
     
  30. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I said "afford" I didn't mean just monetarily (though that's probably the biggest factor) but having the resources from many others who take the time to help you. How many people have that?