Downton Abbey - Season 4 on PBS

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by Artemis@BC, Dec 31, 2013.

  1. nubka

    nubka Well-Known Member

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    Well I hope poor Anna doesn't get preggers, but I won't be surprised if that's the direction her story line takes... :(
     
  2. Jubak

    Jubak Well-Known Member

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    So Anna gets raped while Kiri te Kanawa aka Nellie Melba sings opera at the top of her lungs, drowning out Anna's screams. I hate this episode. This isn't what I expected when Dame Kiri was slated for an appearance.
     
  3. zee703

    zee703 New Member

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    I had no idea it was going to happen to Anna - sheesh. Hasn't this character had enough misery (husband arrested and sent to prison)? Hope Bates figures it out and somehow, w/o jeopardizing himself, figures out a way to take out that creep on his next return to Downton Abbey. Am sick of Edna and Jimmy but enjoying Edith and her savvy card-playing suitor.
     
  4. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    Statistically, it's unlikely. I forgot what exactly the chances are of getting pregnant if you have sex once while ovulating but they are more like 80% rather than a 100%, believe it or not. The egg lives for about 24 hours at most, or for one day. So the chances of her ovulating on that particular day of the month are what, 1/30 x 80%, you do the math. No Plan B around at the time.
    Sorry, I went off on this obstetrical tangent, TMI. But the writers may have totally not cared about these numbers where there is major drama to be had. If she does, it would some really bad luck on top of really bad luck.

    I will stop now. :slinkaway
     
  5. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

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    since episode 1 established mrs hughes is a busybody now, i wonder if she will tell someone
     
  6. Artemis@BC

    Artemis@BC Well-Known Member

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    If you've watched TV, like, ever, you'll know that real-life conception stats have absolutely nothing to do with TV-land conception rates. The only math that matters here is the potential for dramatic conflict. :rolleyes:
     
  7. Artemis@BC

    Artemis@BC Well-Known Member

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    That's how I think the info will come out. Especially since she's a well-meaning busybody. Perhaps something along the lines of Bates notices Anna's change in behaviour → Bates asking Mrs Hughes if she knows what the problem is (since Anna won't talk about it) → Mrs Hughes telling him.
     
  8. zaphyre14

    zaphyre14 Well-Known Member

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    I could see Mrs. Hughes telling Carson and Carson telling Bates. Everything must go through the proper channel, you know. :)

    Can someone clarify exactly who raped Anna for me? I kept getting confused between the references to "Lord Gillingham" and "Mr. Gillingham" and the dark-haired younger guys all look alike to me.
     
  9. pollyanna

    pollyanna playing the Glad Game

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    Lord Gillingham's valet whose name is Green, but who is known below-stairs as Mr. Gillingham.
     
  10. znachki

    znachki Active Member

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    Lord Gillingham's valet, Mr. Green (/) who is referred to by Downton staff as "Mister Gillingham" is the rapist. Common practice at house parties was for the valets and maids who traveled with their employers to be called by the employers last name. Simplified things.

    So, if Bates and Anna traveld with the family, they'd be Mr. Grantham & Mrs. Crawley, Edna would be Miss Grantham
     
  11. Artemis@BC

    Artemis@BC Well-Known Member

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    As was they case when they went to the Highlands at the end of last season.

    It must be a factoid about life in service that Fellowes particularly likes, though, as he's used (and provided opportunity for it to be commented on by the characters) it at least twice now in Downton and also throughout Gosford Park. Whether or not it "simplified things" is debatable, though ... :D
     
  12. zaphyre14

    zaphyre14 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I suspected that was the case, but I had company during the broadcast and got a tad distracted.
     
  13. mikemba

    mikemba Active Member

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    I'm late discovering this thread so I'll comment on both episodes at once.

    What I liked:

    Edith's wardrobe. The writer may hate her, but she must be the stylist's favorite. I've thought since Season 1 that she has had the best wardrobe -- particularly her day dresses.

    To my surprise, I am really liking Rose! I like that her character is being given more substance, particularly that she is such a fan of music and dance. She has danced in every episode in which she has appeared. And speaking of wardrobe, I loved her PJs in the season premier.

    Another good thing about Rose that I just realized on this episode: there is finally another ("spinster") woman to join Edith at breakfast with the men.

    I'm so glad Mary apologized to Mr. Carson. She treated him terribly.

    Isobel breaks my heart and is being portrayed beautifully by Penelope Wilton. Those tear-filled eyes of hers are heartbreaking.



    Some not so good things:

    Matthew's absence is a huge gap. He was everything: the male romantic lead, the heir, the one who financially saved Downton. In fact, the mystery surrounding who he was and what he would be like was the driving force to the whole series. I realize that there was a gap to fill and it must have been difficult for the writers, but I found too many "people interfering in other people's lives" themes in the premier. I found epsiode 2 much more believable.

    If they're trying to make Edna a replacement for Miss O'Brien, they are severely missing the mark. No one can out-O'Brien Miss O'Brien. Edna is not even a shadow. She doesn't even have curly bangs.

    Even though John Bates was ultimately right in being suspicious of Mr. Green, the way he kept barking at Anna and bossing her around in front of others was terrible.

    I am tired of them making Mr. Molesley a fool. They had a beautiful scene of him and his father talking about his woes under a lovely star-lit sky. They seemed to be going in a direction of giving a sensitive treatment of the difficulties of someone like him who was suddenly unemployed.

    Yet they ruined it by making him a fool at Violet's luncheon (through the butler's sabotage.)
    They have twice made him a foolish drunk, they have made him someone who grossly overestimates his talent at cricket, and now made him a bumbling fool at serving a small luncheon. I could see giving him one flaw, but they're making him a buffoon.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
  14. mikemba

    mikemba Active Member

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    The biggest weakness for me is that they seem to be pushing Mary too quickly into a romance. I am glad to see her dealing with her grief, but I think that priority one should have been bonding with little George -- then when she was ready, get involved in the business. But it's much too early for romance.

    Even though Anthony Gillingham seemed very nice, and she did not seem to be actively looking for love, I just can't believe that Mary would be interested in any type of romance less than a year after Matthew's death. I thought that gleeful laugh at dinner was too much in the opposite extreme of her earlier grief.
     
  15. Artemis@BC

    Artemis@BC Well-Known Member

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    I actually thought that whole interaction was one of the best parts of last Sunday's episode. I didn't detect any "pushing" -- by either the family or the writers -- into romance, just pushing Mary to continue to come out of her shell of grief. The whole thing played very realistically for me, as a "hmm, if the timing had been better this might have gone somewhere, but for now at least we'll just be friends" kind of thing.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Gillingham return in a later episode, though.

    As for bonding with little George ... I don't foresee much of that happening. The aristocracy of that era simply didn't "bond" with their young children. The scene from the previous week when the fed & dressed Sybie and George were brought by the nanny into the drawing room for a half hour of show&tell was pretty much typical of parental interactions in that time and place.
     
  16. zee703

    zee703 New Member

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  17. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that Lord Gillingham will be Mary's only suitor. ;)
     
  18. mikemba

    mikemba Active Member

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    I did, too. I thought there was a nice ease to the interaction between Anthony and Mary, and I don't think that he pushed it at all. However, I do feel that both Cora (by inviting a few potential suitors for Mary) and the show (by having Mary at least start to show romantic interest 7 months after Matthew's death) were really rushing it. Tom lost Sybil more than a year before Mary lost Matthew. He still looks like he's about to cry whenever anyone mentions her name, and he has shown no interest in pursuing a new romance. To me, that is much more realistic.

    By bonding with George, I do mean what was normal for early 20th century aristocracy. In episode one, Mary's level of interest in George was very meager even for their standards. Even Anna gave Mary her unsolicited opinion to this effect. Mary referred to him as an orphan, declined the nanny's invitation to join them for a walk, etc. So I thought it would have been more fitting, after starting to pull out of her deep level of grief, if the first thing she did was to approach the level of interest in her baby that was normal for someone of her position. I would have liked to have seen that before -- a good deal before -- I saw her giggle at Anthony's invitation to take her out when in London.
     
  19. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    Twitter:

    :lol:

    EDIT:

     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
  20. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    :lol:
     
  21. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    The part of my post you had in bold demonstrates I am aware of the phenomenon. I was commenting, like most of us here. Same with CPR, TV successful resuscitation rates also have nothing to do with reality, unfortunately.
     
  22. Artemis@BC

    Artemis@BC Well-Known Member

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    ^ Yes, I fully understood that -- sorry if you thought I was implying or interpreting otherwise.
     
  23. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    :)
     
  24. Artemis@BC

    Artemis@BC Well-Known Member

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    :40beers:
     
  25. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    So finally I got to watch Episode 2.

    The Dowager Countess quoting a Rossetti poem. :kickass: And she sees and knows all. Love the Puccini and the guilt snarks.

    Loved Cora telling off Sir Robert about him being a snob and not wanting to talk to the opera singer.

    Edith continues to wear :glamor: dresses.

    Do people think Mary will go for Lord Gillingham?

    Anna :fragile:
     
  26. mikemba

    mikemba Active Member

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    IceAlisa, I forgot about Cora telling off Robert. I normally like these things to be polite and private, but he had been so pompous this episode that I was glad that she delivered her message in such a scolding tone, and within earshot of Mr. Carson, no less. Well done, Cora!

    I also liked how very kind Violet was to Isobel. Almost every time Violet has ever done anything kind she reaped some benefit of her own, but this time she seemed completely selfless. She was sincerely and deeply concerned for Isobel.

    In a lighter moment, I loved how Rose repeatedly punched the man who was attacking her dance partner, Sam, at the York Dance Hall. She's a firecracker, that Rose!
     
  27. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    Cora :kickass: in this episode.
     
  28. tamuno

    tamuno Member

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    [QUOTE][/QUOTE]In a lighter moment, I loved how Rose repeatedly punched the man who was attacking her dance partner, Sam, at the York Dance Hall. She's a firecracker, that Rose

    Yes! I did not see this until I rewatched it. She was one step away from jumping on his back. I was happy to see her act so unladylike.


    We need to see more of him. I remember when Matthew first appeared and I really couldn't see it ( between them). Mary's personality and his were complete opposites. As she said in this episode, 'Matthew changed me'. But at first I didn't see it.
     
  29. Latte

    Latte Well-Known Member

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    I miss Matthew. I guess Tom will be the moral compass of the show now. And the romantic lead. I wish he could see that the new maid is setting him up for a fall.
    I hope they don't have her coming on to him every episode. It would get really tiring and boring.
    I knew what was going to happen to Anna , so, was not surprised. Glad she fought so hard but wish she would have told Sir Robert what happened. Make that told Cora.
    I wondered why he went after middle aged Anna when there were two young pretty kitchen maids there but then I knew. Anna is married and not a virgin and the girls probably were so somewhere in his sick mind, raping Anna was ok.
     
  30. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    Anna is not middle-aged...she's meant to be in her late 20s/early 30s...like the actress who plays her [Joanne Froggatt is 33]. Mr. Bates is middle-aged, and their age difference was mentioned by Edith when she was involved with Sir Anthony Strallan. She said something like 'you [Anna] and Mr. Bates are happy, and he's older than you [Anna].'

    Also, rape is not a crime of sexual desire as much as it is a crime of violence and control. The very young and very old, the attractive and unattractive, women and men and children have all been victims of rape.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2014