Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by Artemis@BC, Jan 9, 2013.
Robert will go with the flow eventually, but Carson...never!
Well at least Carson didn't get a mouse in his pants this time...
Yes, I think this could be true. If they'd started seeing it days before and acted, possibly. This show made me so thankful for modern medicine again and again.
Thank god Carson will probably not live long enough to go through what Stevens did in Remains of the Day
one of my fave Dowager moments in the last episode was her commentary on marriage among "their" set: "People like us are never unhappily married. We just see less of each other than we might like." (or close to that). PML. hysterical writing.
Really, really want Daisy to take that farm job. Her FIL is a progressive man. Ditto Edith and the writing job.
Did I miss something, or did Mary *really* hear Sybil say she'd be ok w/ a Catholic child? Or is she being supportive of Tom? I was amazed that Mary ACTUALLY PUSHED BACK to paPA. bout effin time.
That was Consuelo Vanderbilt, Duchess of Marlborough. Basically, she got roped into the marriage by her rather bullying mother because Mom wanted the glory of an English title and the Duke wanted the Vanderbilt millions. Consuelo managed to give her husband two sons, but they weren't in love and everyone knew it. They separated in 1906 but weren't officially divorced until 1921.
They did have a conversation about that. Sybil said that she was OK with the child being Catholic. Mary said it was her (Sybil's) child too but Sybil said she didn't mind and that she loved Tom so much. At this Mary said she'd support her. And then when the time came she kept her promise. Baby Sybbie is very cute.
Yes, it was an epic disaster of a marriage. Consuelo (18 at the time) was in love with another man at the time of the wedding and had to be threatened and bullied by her mother to go through with it. The groom was a first cousin of Winston Churchill (himself the product of an American/British aristocratic match, but his parents married for love against their families' wishes, although the love did not last). After her divorce, Consuelo made a happy 2nd marriage to a French man (not an aristocrat).
It was nice to hear Daisy mention William and actually say she had been married. Maybe she is starting to value William in hindsight.
Yep--Sybil even said, if I heard it correctly, she believed in God but not really in a church, so if raising their child Catholic made Tom happy, she was happy. And I don't think Robert (or the vicar, if he were honest with himself) is objecting on genuine faith grounds rather on a deeply ingrained anti-Catholicism and classism, plus anti-Irish sentiment. (As far as form and function go High Anglicanism and Catholicism aren't that different, unsurprising given Henry VIII would have objected to being called a Protestant--as HE saw it, the *Pope* was the heretic who had usurped the authority of kings and he was running the true Church in England. He burned as many Lutherans as Catholics. Yes, he sort of talked himself into it when he couldn't get his way sticking within the church, but the articles of faith he created were basically Catholicism with the serial numbers removed.)
I thought it was the Marlboroughs but couldn't remember (and I don't have the DVDs yet...soon...soooooon...okay, maybe I have a small addiction issue with Downton.) She managed to wrangle an annulment on the grounds of coercion, which kept her sons with the Duke from being declared illegitimate, so she could marry her Frenchman in the Catholic church. Jennie Jerome (Churchill) was even MORE scandalous, she remarried a MUCH younger man. Everyone was horrified (especially since that meant he wasn't getting an heir out of that marriage.) One elderly dowager, when asked what she was doing walking around the nurses and children in Hyde park, retorted "Searching in the perambulators for my future husband." (And is it bad I can see the Dowager Countess saying that?)
Jennie had TWO marriages to younger men after she was widowed -- the first was the same age as Winston and her third husband was a few years younger than that. There was a mini-series about her life decades ago, starring Lee Remick as Jennie.
I could see the possibility of Tom helping run the tenant farms, especially if there were improvements made to help the tenants, but Tom and Daisy?
Yes, the thought of Robert's reaction might be hilarious -- but my own reaction of Daisy & Tom is
Tom and Daisy would be the height of ridiculousness. While it's true that Daisy's character has grown a bit over the years, the thought of Tom ever being attracted to her after Sybil is just bizarre. It wasn't just Sybil's beauty that captured Tom's interest -- it was her mind, her personality, her drive to be involved. While viewed by some as being of the same "servant/service class" and thus more or less equal, they are continents apart. Tom was always reading political and historical things (Sir Robert gave him permission to use his library when he first came to work at Downton); I don't recall Daisy ever reading anything much beyond a recipe (although at least she wasn't addicted to the celebrity magazines like Ethel was). Daisy is a good sort and deserves some happiness, but Tom is certainly not at all a good partner for her nor she for him.
I think Tom and Edith would make a good couple, but that would be so weird.
She always valued him, and always had affection for him. She just felt a tremendous amount of guilt for agreeing to marry him when she didn't love him as much as he loved her, and she felt somewhat manipulated into the situation. Which was entirely understandable, I'd have felt the same way. Doesn't mean she didn't value him, and she certainly has gained a closeness to his father.
If this storyline even begins to hint at William's father feeling anything other than fatherly for Daisy, though... I'm going to have to throw something at the TV.
I didn't pick up on any hints that William's father feels anything other than fatherly. Not a whiff. I'm positive that's not going to change.
The series was called Jennie: Lady Randolph Churchill. It was made in 1974. Lee Remick was superb. Anne Bancroft played Jennie Churchill in the film, Young Winston, and was equally as good.
No, I haven't either. And I'm fairly confident it won't. But wouldn't say 100% certainty about anything in this show. They've thrown some stuff at us before!
BTW, I love the idea of Daisy taking over the farm too ... except that they'd have to come up with some convincing reason for her to stay in the picture re: the rest of the characters. They haven't said, but I got the impression that the farm is not part of the Downton estate but rather a little ways off.
No, it was made clear that the farm is owned by the estate with Daisy's father-in-law as tenant. He told Daisy he was sure they'd be receptive to her taking over the tenancy if they asked, but that all the equipment and stock was his own.
No need for anyone to worry about needing the swill basin. I think the odds that there would be any feelings remotely unfatherly towards Daisy by her father-in-law is barely more than the likelihood of Carson going off in hot pursuit of Lady Violet -- or Ethel.
Ick, I agree. And they explicitly had the conversation in series two where he told her about how he and his wife had other children who didn't survive infancy, William their only surviving child was gone, and he overtly asked her to let him consider her his daughter. I'm not sure if he's ever REALLY cottoned on that Daisy didn't feel like she'd been honest with William, but leaving her the farm (well, tenancy plus stock and equipment) makes sense without any squicky overtones. She's really all he has left in the world. If he doesn't leave it to her, everything would basically have to go to the landlord.
Yes, I know he's a tenant farmer ... but I don't recall it ever being said that it was specifically a Downton estate tenancy.
It always seems to be a bit of a journey when Daisy goes to his farm, but of course that doesn't mean anything as the estate could be very wide spread. But there are other landowners in the area too.
Sorry for even bringing up the idea of Mr Mason being anything other than fatherly toward Daisy. I only mention it because I recently got back from visiting my 90-year-old cousin, a farmer, and a very sweet man but randy bugger who will go after anyone in a skirt. Age or family relationship is irrelavant. Not fair to layer that on to y'all, though, so my apologies!
There is such a thing as too much information,honest
Perhaps Fellows was just practicing for the American period drama he's supposedly working on.
I didn't get anything squicky from the Daisy/ William's father thing. He's just a kind old man who has lost his family, and Daisy is the closest thing to family he has left. Besides it has never been legal to marry one's father-in-law in the UK.
I haven't gone back to check, but my recollection of the scene where they talk about the possibility of her taking over had him specifically mention that they like Daisy up at the house and that would make it much more certain that she would be accepted as the new tenant. I certainly took it to mean he was talking about Downton. Also, when William was still around I seem to recall that those at the house knew his father well, presumably because he was a local tenant. As far as the story goes, of course it has to be a Downton farm, otherwise not so important for plot development.
Eh, I interpreted that as just if there were any issues about Daisy inheriting, them at the big house would make sure whoever the landlord is would accept Daisy, not necessarily that he was one of the Earl's tenants. When William's mother was dying and when Daisy goes to visit it's implied they needed quite a bit of travel time, while the Downton tenants seem to be within a short drive or even walk. If the Earl says to the landlord "I don't care if she's a kitchen maid or cook's assistant, she's the man's daughter-in-law and his heir," he's not likely to argue much.
There's a lot of Downton humour out there at the moment ... but this is my favourite so far. (And it's re: episode 5 so no spoilers here!)
If Downton Abbey happened entirely on Facebook
So much good funny here, but my faves:
"Tom Branson has posted a new photo in the album Sybil (the baby, not my dead wife)"
"Thomas has checked in to Jimmy Kent's knee."
"Mr Bates is attending the event Stocky Men Over 50 Walking Around and Around In Circles"
Totally bookmarking this.
My favorite is Lord Grantham has checked in at Isobel Crawley's House. The entire exchange.
Yes, that was hilarious. Also the entire exchange of "Mr Travis Attended the event Dinner at Downton Abbey"
All the previous episodes from this season have been done too, but this episode was the best imo.
really??? I didn't at all.. seemed very fatherly and appropriate to me..
that is an hilarious site.. thanks for the link
"Cora: How's your friend DOCTOR MURDER doing?"
I adore "Life on Facebook" style posts. Slate.com used to do a White House one that was hilarious.
I've just watched tonight's 2-hour episode. So is there only one remaining?
I believe there is only one episode left, unfortunately. Having two hours tonight was great. Is it my imagination or is Lady Edith getting more attractive (noticed it first when she was meeting the magazine editor for the first time)? The biggest surprise for me tonight was Thomas giving Bates a cryptic message for O'Brien (about the soap). I'm surprised he'd kept that to himself once he figured out O'Brien was sticking the proverbial knife in him via Jimmy.
Maybe because it would have come out that he knew virtually since it happened but never said anything?
Thomas, you are not foul because you're gay.
However, the blackmail, petty theft, attempts to sabotage Bates, essentially wounding yourself to get out of the war after trying to get into a cushy non-combat position first, foray into black marketeering, and scheme to 'rescue' Isis after stealing her in the first place might make you want to reconsider other aspects of your life. (To say nothing of the way he treated William before the war, using Daisy to do it....yeah, I would say that being gay is about the one thing about you NOT foul.)
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