Does voguing count as choreography?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Kwantumleap, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. Kwantumleap

    Kwantumleap Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,942
    Strike a pose. Does hitting vogue poses count as choreography under CoP?
     
  2. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Messages:
    14,039
    It did for Navka.
     
  3. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    18,089
    If it is with the music and reflects the character of it then yes it does.
     
  4. Dr.Siouxs

    Dr.Siouxs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    8,490
    Voguing should be a required element in the technical program.
     
  5. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    18,089
    I agree. It could definitely be open to levels.
     
  6. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,836
    Only Navka could pull off vogueing during any figure skating program let alone a dance to the feeling begins.
     
  7. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    18,089
    So what should skaters get if they do the Macarena?
     
  8. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10,636
    Butyrskaya did
     
  9. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,500
    And for Amodio and Candeloro.

    If you are talking about the brief stop and pose moments that sometimes mark a change of music, I am OK with them. OTOH, I do actively dislike the extended dance in place type voguing.

    Disregarding the bad taste potential of these moves, my bigger beef is that they are really thinly disguised rest breaks. Since skating is supposed to be a sport, stamina should count, so the vogue in place rest breaks should be penalized somewhere.
     
  10. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10,636
    Judges could penalize too much posing under the Choreography component, specifically the Utilization of personal and public space and Pattern and ice coverage criteria.
     
  11. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,288
    I've always enjoyed a little posing. They're just small breaks in lengthy programs: I actually like a little variety from constant movement.
     
  12. umronnie

    umronnie Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    829
    It's in the code. Level 4 Morozov.
     
  13. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,422
    Shot?
     
  14. allezfred

    allezfred Hideous Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    43,061
    Somebody could have done the Finnstep to Macarena as it is the right amount of bpm. :D
     
  15. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    18,089
    :lol:

    My coach and I used to do the Willow Waltz to the Macarena. It actually worked really well.
     
  16. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    5,887
    Screw the Macarena, that's level 1 stuff.

    Level 4 is the Nutbush. ;)
     
  17. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    18,089
    Nutbush is only Level 2. Bus Stop is level 3 because it has a turn in it.
     
  18. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    5,887
    ...I think we may have just moved beyond my generation. Bugger.

    These darn old people running our sport... ;)
     
  19. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,353
    Well, it would still be reflected if it wasn't with the music/character, just not in a positive way. :p

    If it is done well and not excessively, then I would reward the choreography mark (relative to if they had just been generically skating around). I agree with those who don't mind and even like it a little bit. Sometimes it gives interest and character to the program. I can think of a handful of times where I felt it got to be excessive enough, for example, Florent Amodio's Michael Jackson program and arguably Oksana Baiul's Olympic program, but both were interpreted extremely well. In those cases, I might end up with a similar choreography mark compared to if they had just been generically skating around during the posing sections, because I'd reward their contribution purpose, unity, and phrasing, but take off on the ice coverage and use of space. I would still keep the interpretation mark up very high in those two examples. I'd generally end up having a bigger than average difference between the choreography and interpretation mark (with the interpretation being high) in cases like those.
     
  20. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,638
    Pingu && myself were suggesting Cappellini&Lanotte to use it for SD this year. I remain bitterly disappointed.
     
  21. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,479
    Nancy Kerrigan wasted a good opportunity to do a full on vogue demonstration...

    Fox on Ice (1994)
     
  22. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    9,431
    If Stephane does it, I approve. :D At least I think it worked very well for this program--created and sustained a mood and was not excessive. And it didn't just appear every minute for an obvious rest break mid-program.
     
  23. Kwantumleap

    Kwantumleap Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,942
    Nancy did it before Maria :lol:

    ETA: Wow, someone beat me to it lol
     
  24. fan

    fan Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2003
    Messages:
    997
    Isn't that what plushenko has been doing for years?
     
  25. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,733
    Voguing is choreography too. There are many aspects to choreo and poses can be one of them. That being said it shouldn't be overdone in skating imo. You've got to keep moving, keep skating as it were.
     
  26. vivika1982

    vivika1982 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,691
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  27. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    CH is more about the use of space, the way the program is laid out on the ice and so forth.

    It counts towards PE and IN if it's done properly and in time and in character of the music.

    I would deduct on TR and CH, however, if there's too much of it because you should be skating, not standing in place. Stopping and standing still isn't exactly a very difficult skill to master.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  28. lahaa968

    lahaa968 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Messages:
    173
    Well, when Amodio is vogueing, my reaction is that he's too lazy to put real choreography.

    So it depends. I thought it worked very well in Kostner's Bolero, because it fit the style of the choreography, it built with the music, and drew you in. ALSO, it was some innovative vogueing, not stuff we've seen before. :watch:
     
  29. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Messages:
    10,123
    During Kwan's later years where she just skated around from element to element, I WISHED she'd pose more and express more character in the music. I mean I'm sure it was more of an athletic achievement to be in constant motion, but meh.