Does Jeremy Abbott need a coaching change?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vash01, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. apatinar

    apatinar Active Member

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    Ask Sylvia - she probably can pull the information up in an astonishingly small amount of time.. it really is incredible how she manages to do it
     
  2. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    I am of two minds on Jeremy. I have enjoyed watching him skate but when he has imploded (which has happened too often, I think) I have felt bad for him. I truly don't know what would help him at this stage of his life/skating. If there were pro comps, I would think that would be a great place for him to be -- less pressure. Whatever he chooses to do, I wish him well.
     
  3. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    If only there were pro comps. I love watching him skate and love seeing his new programs
    It's a sad reality that now competitive mens skating is: turn on timer, do jumps and tricks, timer off. No need to pay attention to music or choreo
    Jeremy can't keep up with the jump content. But he is still my fav skater to watch.
     
  4. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    When there were real pro comps (not cheesefests) I actually enjoyed them, even though the jump content was less (but not non-existent). I never imagined that they would completely disappear. This is such a shame. I would love to see pro competitions that are respected almost as much as eligible ones, as another art form, although they will never be a part of the Olympics.
     
  5. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Contrary to popular belief, the Olympics (while a lofty, admirable goal and notable achievement just to get there), it ain't everything, even for figure skaters. ;)

    Kinda sad that it seems to be always made out to be the f*ing Holy Grail of ice dreams.
     
  6. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Let's get real though. The Olympics are the reason why most skaters stay competitive. Even if it's just for a chance to compete there with no hope of a medal, the Olympics really is the holy grail for most competitors.
     
  7. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    I love this. I cannot cannot cannot understand why people pretend like the Olympics is NOT the reason capable skaters like Jeremy still compete. Amen to getting real
     
  8. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    I can tell you from personal observation that Jeremy works his patoody off...
     
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  9. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    That makes it worse because it means whatever issue he has is not easily fixable.
     
  10. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure that Jeremy will do all he can to address whatever issue he has; and perform to the best of his ability.
    No one should expect more from anyone than that.

    I find the idea that he doesn't work hard enough ridiculous and insulting.
     
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  11. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Jeremy could be the next Paul Wylie!
     
  12. DarrellH

    DarrellH New Member

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    I hope so. If not, and he still has the drive to compete...ice dancing.
     
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  13. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    If only pigs can fly. Please show us they can, Jeremy! ;)
     
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  14. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    He could do well with SOI, but I would still like to see him at least win a world bronze.
     
  15. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    or the next Nicole Bobek...
     
  16. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is Paul couldnt do that at on his own. He needed a very poorly skated event, otherwise even if his skating was competitive with the others, the bigger names would all get the benefit of doubt over an inconsistent headcase who popped up just for that event. If the skating was the level of the 91 Worlds he would have finished no higher than 6th guaranteed. Since Petrenko, Bowman, Eldredge, Browning, and Barna all made alot of mistakes his excellent skating had to be recognized, and even then Petrenko with his worst performance in 3 years easily beat him for the gold. Other than being heartbroken for Browning, and maybe one or two others, I am thrilled how it worked out for him, and he got something to recognize his amateur career with before it was, and rode it into a stellar professional career with a new confidence, and gave us years of memorable and truly World class skating to come, but it still needed alot of things to go that way for it to happen.

    The same I am sure is true of Abbott at this point. Even if one could argue, like Wylie, his best skating, is competitive with most anyone in the World, after years of bombing out even if he somehow made it to Sochi and skated lights out he will not be higher than 6th if Chan, Hanya, Takahashi, Fernandez, all skate well. That plus that like Paul in 92 even if he skated somewhat cleanish technically to go with his terrific artistry, there are other guys with more potential technical ammunition than he has.
     
  17. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Out of the skaters you mentioned, only Chan is likely to skate well enough to win a medal of any color, with gold being the most likely. As we recently saw at 4CC, Takahashi and Hanyu are vulnerable. Hanyu due to his lack of stamina, and Takahashi- I am baffled. Fernandez is not exactly known for consistency. He could bomb either the SP or the LP. Plushenko has injury issues. If Jeremy skates nearly clean, there is no reason why the judges would not put him ahead of some of these skaters- again Chan being an exception. That plays right into a 1992-like scenario: Chan-Gold, Abbott-Silver, Bronze:Hanyu/Fernandez/Takahashi/Reynolds/Plushenko.

    Don't call me crazy for imagining a scenario like this because before the 1992 Olympics who would have thought that Wylie would win the silver and Barna the bronze? Actually going into the 2014, Jeremy has a slightly better record at worlds than Wylie did before 1992.

    Of course this is a very low probability result, but it is not impossible that many of the top skaters would implode under the Olympic pressure, while Jeremy would learn to relax before his performance and deliver two magical performances.
     
  18. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I hope this is possible. I would like every skater of Jeremy's caliber to have an outside shot at medaling. Does anyone think it really is possible? With Patrick Chan winning some events with falls, is there going to be room for underdogs even if the favorites have problems? I'm curious what judging analysts among us think.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
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  19. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    That's generally true, just not for everyone. Jeffrey Buttle, after all, walked away a year and a half before the Olympics in his home country, because he felt his career was complete. I really respected his ability to say and do that. Though I do wish he had stayed competitive for two more seasons...

    And there are skaters who might be able to make the Olympics but would have to give up their original nationality to do so, and they choose not to. Haven't we seen some partnerships end because of this?

    As for Jeremy: there's only so much a coach can do. Some skaters are more mentally and emotionally fragile than others, and there are no quick fixes, or in some cases, any fixes.
     
  20. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I understand that the Olympic dream is a reality for most eligible skaters. How refreshing that it wasn't for Yebin Mok, btw, even though because it is such a reality for most in the skating world, Yebin felt it was necessary to comply with the Olympic goals others had for her. Sylvia has started an enlightening thread about Yebin's journey (after it was mentioned briefly in another thread).

    But since this thread isn't about Yebin, back to Jeremy and the possibility of a second Olympics for him. Yes, an admirable goal and it would be so great to see him cap his career with Olympic redemption, but he's quite fortunate to have made it there once. Perhaps the desire to return is more strengthened in him since his first Olympics did not end up how he likely had hoped. It may be that Jeremy's path in skating will ultimately provide unexpected lessons and pleasures not necessarily of an Olympic nature. Right now, we don't know what's going to happen so I guess we can continue speculating and offering him unsolicited advice, as fans tend to do.
     
  21. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I don't know if we can compare his situation to Ye Bin because she was struggling and becoming unhappy. I hope Jeremy doesn't feel emotionally boxed into an Olympic season. I think he has been up and down enough that he probably views it as a great opportunity. He is so much older than Ye Bin was, and the self-awareness that comes with age can help one determine what the right path is for oneself.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  22. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Oh, yes indeed, I agree, TheIronLady that Yebin's career in eligible skating has been completely different from Jeremy's. I believe she was injured and she had an eating disorder, and she was at the beginnings of a promising career, whereas Jeremy has had many competitive successes on the senior level. One thing they share in common is an indefinable expressiveness on the ice and a movement quality that transports audiences "to a different dimension." I remember enjoying watching Yebin when I first saw her compete in seniors but I never knew what happened to her, so it has been a wonderful revelation finding out the path she has taken away from and back to figure skating. The one constant for Yebin has apparently been the joy and desire "to make beautiful art" with her skating, a goal which for her had nothing at all to do with dreams of Olympic glory.

    Thank you TheIronLady for expressing those thoughts about Jeremy. As a fan, I struggle with something similar: the idea that there is apparently little validation for skaters outside of going for and preferably attaining Olympic gold. But the history of Olympic figure skating should tell us something beyond all those Olympic victories deeply etched in our memories: that even those who win gold don't always skate their absolute best (Fleming, Hamilton, Yamaguchi, Witt, etc.), and that it is not a measure of a skater's worth or talent if they are favored to or have a chance to win gold and fall just short or far short (Browning, Kwan, Orser, Fratianne, Thomas, Babilonia & Gardner, Ito ... this one is a long list especially re athletes across many sports).
     
  23. rudi

    rudi Well-Known Member

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    Am way late weighing in on this topic because I haven't been here recently, but here are my two cents:

    Jeremy is an amazing skater, and I am a fan. I don't know him personally nor do I know the extent of his injuries, but if Jeremy's trying to make one more run at the Olympics and/or Worlds, I would love to see him make a go of it with a really strong, experienced coach that has a track record. Not sure who, but I don't think Yuka and Jason are likely to help him get there. I think that a coaching change would be beneficial and his best shot; I do also think he is capable and has it in him.

    I know Paul Wylie was mentioned here, but I also think of Maria Butyrskaya. Many people wrote her off because of her age, nerves, etc., and, in the end, she pulled it off. Same with Rudy Galindo.

    Believe me, a great coach can make a big difference.

    With that said, Jeremy will do what he feels is right for him, and even if he doesn't make another Olympic or World team, he should be proud of his great accomplishments in the sport thus far and of the fact that his skating has touched a lot of people. I wish him the very best.
     
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  24. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    Last season was a coaching disaster- especially the whole change the quad idea that led to exacerbating an injury and the inappropriate spin that had to be changed at Nationals.

    The music for the FS was Yuka's idea...not sure it was a good one.

    In retrospect- he should have changed prior to this season.

    Now it's too late.
     
  25. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    Heavens, aren't you full of encouragement!
     
  26. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    :respec: Wishing him all the best if Sochi is going to be his last shot to podium. He has the goods.
     
  27. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    At what point (and I'm sure I've said this before) do you start looking at the common factor? And the common factor here is: Jeremy. He's had a few different coaches now and nothing ever changes. It's too late now. There's a deep-rooted issue here that no number of coaching changes can fix.

    Although the spin issue was unforgivable, that's just as much on Jeremy as it is on Yuka. I couldn't imagine being a skater of that level and NOT knowing the rules...
     
  28. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    I "love" all the posts which assume direct personal knowledge of Jeremy's life; and his psyche.
    UGH!
     
  29. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm, after looking back at 2010 Olympics, ohhh, what might have been. In any case, what is, is that Jeremy started out great with a 3/3 skating second to last in the sp directly after 90.30 Evan (ugh), and then inexplicably Jeremy popped two planned triples into singles. That season Jeremy had one of the two best short programs ever (Dai had the other, and Dai was robbed of first place in the sp). The popping by Jeremy seems to happen in big moments out of nowhere. Of course, he's not the only skater to do that, but seemingly the one most adversely affected by the reflex. He placed 16th in the sp (Jere lost a lot of points with those pops -- but what about his artistry and his great choreo?). Overall, Jeremy pulled up to 9th which in that field wasn't horrible, aside from the fact how talented Jeremy is and the excellent programs he had, and also that he'd beaten the OGM winner a month prior at U.S. Nationals.

    Jeremy is such a divine skater. It would be so incredible and magical if he could pull a Paul Wylie at the Olympics next season. :) No matter what, I'm going to try and just enjoy seeing Jeremy at WTT and I'm looking forward to seeing the new programs he comes up with next season.

    As far as a coaching change, I think Jeremy has a strong bond with Yuka and he also seems comfortable training in Detroit, so at this point his changing coaches is doubtful. But, had Jeremy never left Colorado, it might have been interesting to see Jeremy working with Tom Dickson as his coach, especially since Dickson created great choreo for Jeremy when he had his break-out season. In any case, Dickson and Alex Johnson are working beautifully together these days.

    One thing Jeremy might consider, is seeking out technical assistance and planning a CoP strategy. Another thing is just figuring it all out and breaking things down re what is not working. Enhance the positives and change what isn't working so well.
     
  30. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Just my $.02.

    Jeremy doesn't need a coaching change at age 28. He needs to decide he wants above all to win each and every time he goes out onto the ice. He needs a consuming desire to do so.