Does Jeremy Abbott need a coaching change?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vash01, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    I am at a loss here. Jeremy has improved his skating with Yuka and Jason, but I have not seen him really dig deep to win a competition or even a medal when it came to the big ones- worlds and Olympics. GPF simply does not rank along with these. In the last 3 years or so, he missed making the world team twice.

    I am wondering if Yuka and Jason are no longer the right coaches for Jeremy? Ultimately the responsibility lies with Jeremy for underperforming, but sometimes a coaching change can do wonders for a skater. Case in point: Ashley Wagner going to John Nicks. Does Jeremy need to go to another coach? May be Frank Caroll (not sure if Frank is accepting more students)?
     
  2. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    His window of opportunity on the World stage was 2009-2010. He was capable of winning the 2009 Worlds and 2010 Olympics, then was lowballed and robbed of a medal at the 2010 Worlds for bombing both the previous events. His window is officialy closed now, on the World stage that is. There are too many guys doing quads and with far too much firepower for him, and whose PCS are as high or higher as well. It is like Lysacek who was good enough to win in 2009 and 2010, but even in his 09/10 form wouldnt be good enough to even be top 6 today. However Evan took his window, while Jeremy didnt, and that window doesnt really exist for him anymore, it is too late.
     
  3. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    Where the body used to be willing but the mind wasn't, now it's the other way around. He may yet be able to 'do a Wylie', but there are too many other men with comparable PCS who can win internationally on any given day.

    It's too bad there isn't a pro circuit Jeremy and his outstanding artistry can be better appreciated away from the rigors of eligible competition.
     
  4. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    A pro circuit would have been wonderful for Jeremy.
     
  5. DBZ

    DBZ Well-Known Member

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    I don't think a coaching change will help at this point.

    Let's face it: Jeremy has always been a hit and miss skater, even in his prime. You compound that with age and injury, and that inconsistency can only get worse. No coach is going to change that.

    I'm afraid I'm in agreement with Judy. Realistically, I think his window of opportunity to seriously challenge on the international stage is gone.

    I think it'll be an incredible personal triumph if he made the Olympic team next year, which still isn't out of the realm of possibility IMO. But in terms of contending for medals at worlds or Olympics?

    I just don't see it happening with the current talent pool.
     
  6. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Yes, the Satos on both sides of the Pacific seem to be producing some underwhelming results. I think they are fine coaches, but he has enough talent and positive attitude to make it worth the risk of a new coaching situation.
     
  7. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    Jeremy needs a new back, and a fountain of youth.

    He didn't bomb this Nationals- he just wasn't good enough under the rules as they are. Even if his back improved I don't think he could get 3 quads in a competition (one in short, two in long) And that's what matters now.

    Yuka helped him tremendously with presentation, not to mention guiding him a he started choreographing his own programs.

    Missing the no point spin was a whoopsie, though.

    It's a shame the previous generation of skaters and the ISU ruined pro skating and pro competitions.
     
  8. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

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    I think at some point you have to switch focus away from the coaches and look at the common denominator - the skater.

    Jeremy is a headcase. I wish it was not so. But that is the undeniable fact.
     
  9. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    Frank won't accept another "elite" male skater as long as he has Evan.
     
  10. maureenfarone

    maureenfarone Active Member

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    I don't think a new coach will help. IMO this was not a case of Jeremy melting down, it was just too many injuries and loss of training time. I will be surprised if he continues elite skating.
     
  11. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what he needs. I'm devastated !
     
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  12. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    I am very sad for Jeremy - and sad for me that I don't get to see those 2 programs at Worlds. :( :wuzrobbed:
     
  13. RobinA

    RobinA Active Member

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    This is my take. I like Jeremy and there's no other American male skater I would rather watch. All my faves turn out to be headcases. My last fave...Weir.
     
  14. flyingsit

    flyingsit Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Jeremy is a headcase in the classic sense. I think there are two separate issues which have really come to the forefront of late... the first is simply age/time. He has become injury-prone of late, and that limits his training, and therefore his consistency in competition.

    Second, in my view Jeremy is an artist who uses skating as his medium, and it seems that he gets so involved in the performance and telling the story that he buries himself so deeply in the choreography that he can't focus on his technical cues, etc. And due to the limited training, his muscle memory isn't what it needs to be, so those technical cues may be even more important to his results than in previous years...
     
  15. DimaToe

    DimaToe Well-Known Member

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    I don't think a coaching change would help at this point. Jeremy seems to have a good relationship with Yuka and they have produced great LPs together, and I imagine that we will see yet another masterpiece for the Olympic year, can't wait :swoon: Right now what I think Jeremy needs most of all is rest, his body needs some attention, and this season was a sign of that. I believe he made a great decision by not doing 4CC. If Jeremy takes a little time off to nurse all of his injuries then comes back to the ice with a fresh mind and healed body I think he will have a good Olympic season with Yuka/Jason helping him along the way. I honestly believe that doing that would help him way more than a new coach at this point , his nerves will always be there, but if he isn't having to worry about nursing injuries, I think he will have his nerves a tad under control. Just my two cents

    Either way, Jeremy has had a respectable career and I wish him a fantastic 2013-14 season and that he leaves the amateur ranks with performances he can be proud of, regardless of the outcome :cheer:
     
  16. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    Your second point is a good reach but if that was the case why on earth is the choreography in the short so watered down? I think that you are dead on with the first point though.

    Jeremy has another element that bothers me. That element is a lack of ownership. From the problems he is having psychologically to the inability to keep difficult choreography intact ( removing the back to back axels in the free is a shame) to his responce in interviews namely sighting Yuzuru's success largely being due to his youth show that Jeremy is riddled with excuses. I dont personally see loads of improvement in jeremy other than in his movement sometimes across the ice. Say what you want but leaving Tom Z might not have been a brilliant move. Tom Z's skaters are known to struggle with artistry which Jeremy does not.

    I think its sad because unlike Paul Wylie, Jeremy has immense technical ability. Unfortunately it could be that the deck is stacked against him. I dont think i would recommend a coaching change only a change in mindset
     
  17. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    YES YES YES.

    The tepid FS music, the low spin levels, the quad entry that clearly is too slow to happen, etc...

    The fact that these were allowed to continue on so long is a failure of the coaches, IMO.

    He needs more aggressive coaching, programs, and skating.

    I hate to say it, but maybe he should go to Morozov, if he'll have him.
     
  18. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    I think it was rude of Jeremy to say the new winner needs to get the 3rd spot back. Jeremy has had ample opportunity to help do that, no?
     
  19. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    Jeremy needs a change in life. I wish him well in future endeavors. Thanks for the beautiful memories!
     
  20. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    I was a joke.

    You know, funny ha ha ha?

    And Adam Rippon was thirteenth last year, so Jeremy could have won and they still would only have two spots.
     
  21. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I watched the press conference, and he didn't say it in a rude way at all. He was very complimentary of them, and was very honest that he messed up and his mistakes lost him the title- I think he said the difference in points between his double salchow and the triple (which he said was his easiest jump) was the difference between winning and bronze.
     
  22. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    No. The issue really with Jeremy is that he doesn't have a consistent quad anymore. He used to hit the 4t sometimes, and when he fell on it, he was usually at least all the way around on it, but that is no longer the case. Couple that with his inconsistency, age, and nagging injuries (all of which likely played a factor in how his quad has come to be more "miss" than hit), and he just doesn't have the goods to make it to the very top internationally, or even nationally, when he isn't perfect on everything else. If he could go out and hit everything else consistently, he might be able to afford falling on a UR quad in the FS, not doing one in the SP, and still be in the mix, but he's never been good at that and I don't think a coaching change will change that, he's just nerve ridden and inconsistent. His age and injuries are also not doing him any favors regarding jump consistency, he's got quite a few years on most of the top guys at the moment, and the ones that are around his age like Takahashi and Joubert, for awhile Plushenko, are only able to stay in the mix due to their ability to jump quads and 3a with consistency (notice that when these guys have an "off" night and don't hit the big tricks, their scores drop a lot too). I think Jeremy is better off staying with Yuka and Jason, trying for 2014 if he's healthy enough, see what happens, and regardless of if he makes the team or not and how he does there, retire afterwards.
     
  23. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    He has never had a consistent quad. Now he's almost lost the quad. If he didn't double those two easiest jumps, he'd go to the world. However, the best scenario would be "go to the world". He cannot make even top 6 at the world.

    Jeremy has lost his athletic ability rapidly with his age. I don't think changing coach would make any difference. It is sad. I'd rather see Jeremy gets more noticeable medals than Johnny Weir (three Nationals and one World bronze). To me, Abbott is way more talented and exquisit.
     
  24. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    Hypothetically, if Jeremy can still go to the worlds with a triple, and his quad is so inconsistent, why not leave out the quad? Just do an immaculate triples program. He is more than capable of that. It may help his confidence just to skate cleanly. I'm afraid all the talk about "needing" a quad has gotten to him, and he is doing a jump he's not as capable of.
     
  25. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand why his routines were so boring and almost uninspired this year. They felt beneath him, but I felt that Abbott sort of phoned in this season (I mean seriously that gimmicky, not-even-wacky-though-it-was-trying-to-be Spy routine and the incredibly lame and boring "Bring Him Home"?). Here's hoping to a better season for Sochi, but he needs to at least project some sort of commanding presence again.
     
  26. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    That did pi$$ me off. Such hubris. :rolleyes: It's like he figures it's a given he'll be on the Sochi Olympic team should 3 spots be available. Mirai is one of my all-time faves but if she said something like that I'd be just as pi$$ed. I know he was sort of joking I guess but it wasn't funny-not to me anyway.

    That being said-I do hope he has a good Olympic season next year.
     
  27. missysays

    missysays Active Member

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    I don't think changing coaches is going to help Jeremy at all- it's something he needs to do for himself mentally. I heard that when Gracie Gold was being interviewed post-competition she said that her coaches told her she needed to get angry- that's what Jeremy needs is to generate and channel hunger/anger whatever combative energy he can muster and utilize it in his programs- even the "softer" ones. I feel like he's holding back and waiting for the other shoe to drop every time he's out there on the ice.

    But as those above suggest, it may be that even if he could muster a more fighting spirit his body may no longer be able to accommodate what he needs to do to achieve good placement in the men's field internationally and now apparently nationally.
     
  28. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Nothing and nobody is going to be able to help Jeremy. He has all the talent and skills he needs to be great but he's not a great competitor and to often like yesterday screws up.
     
  29. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    I was surprised that he went for the quad, even though he was struggling with it in practices. He did not really need it at the US nationals (he would have needed it at worlds). All he needed was a clean skate, and let the judges recognize his superb skating skills by giving him high PCS.
    The fall on the quad seemed to take some air out of him, and he could not even do a simple 3 sal. I see this as a strategic error.

    If Frank Carroll was his coach, he would have told Jeremy to take out the quad, and just do a triple toe or a triple axel for this first jump (that's how he managed Lysacek, and he won with far inferior skills than Jeremy's). It would have saved Jeremy's from the deductions for the fall, ur on that jump, and would have given him more confidence and energy rest of the way . I don't know if Jeremy insisted on doing the quad, whether the option to not do it was considered by him & his coaches. At the US nationals, with just 2 spots available, it was important that he made the world team. I think someone dropped the ball here.
     
  30. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    IMO Valentina is the only one who seems to be flourishing with Yuka and Jason's coaching. Her results aren't stellar as far as the entire world scene, but they are consistently improving.