Does it bother you when Olympic team event medalists are called "Olympic medalists"?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Sylvia, Apr 14, 2014.

?

Does it bother you when Olympic team event medalists are called "Olympic medalists"?

  1. Yes

    78 vote(s)
    24.5%
  2. No

    169 vote(s)
    53.1%
  3. I may get used to it in time

    46 vote(s)
    14.5%
  4. Depends who the skater is

    25 vote(s)
    7.9%
  1. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    3,255
    To borrow from Tara Lipinski, they are ALL Olympic medalists, and no-one can ever take that away from them...:p

    That said, to add qualifiers is frankly silly, and it almost seems like some of you would like EXTRA qualifiers added: Picture the introductions: "US Olympic Figure Skating Team Competition Bronze Medalist Jason Brown." "US Olympic Figure Skating Team Competition Bronze Medalist, and she's lucky that she was even sent to the damned competition, Ashley Wagner." (medal can carry a double asterisk for those who are still mad that Nagasu got passed over). "US Olympic Figure Skating Team Competition Bronze Medalist, who doesn't deserve it all because he choked and fell on his ass and did nothing to contribute to the team medal, Jeremy Abbott." And so on, and so on...

    Yes, I'm being facetious, but at the end of the day they are still Olympic medalists and in the big picture of things, that's fine with the world aside from some fans who are pissed that those who they perceive as lesser skaters are being called medalists with the same weight as individual medalists and/or their favorites were not on a team that qualified or whose team didn't make the podium. Sorry, but I think the medals are all worthwhile and are all worth the same in the respect that they are Olympic medals. That doesn't mean I thought all skaters or performances were medal-worthy, but then again, how many times have we seen that happen (hello, Sarah Hughes...).
    numbers123 and (deleted member) like this.
  2. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,448
    I think it must have been the TV commercial where I heard "team bronze medalist."
  3. immoimeme

    immoimeme having a nice day

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    8,261
    Yes it bothers me. Because to me there is a big difference between being on a medal-winning team and going out there all on yr own and winning a medal based solely on yr own skills and efforts.
  4. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    9,175
    Yeah, Hanyu and Adelina are *soooo* superior to D&W and V&T.
  5. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,490
    It's a new category for figure skating at the Olympics, so it changes our way of looking at and thinking about the sport. It's actually fairly revolutionary and definitely a transition in process, so it takes getting used to. Having an Olympic medal as part of a dance, pair or single event is a way more difficult enterprise and its certainly harder to make it to the top in the traditional four disciplines. Think about the fact of how difficult and how coveted an Olympic gold medal in figure skating has traditionally been to achieve.

    The team event has opened up more opportunities and possibilities for many more skaters to accomplish that dream of an Olympic medal (which is a good thing for those lucky enough to have made the team this quad from a country that has good depth in all the disciplines). The fact you can now cop gold, silver, or bronze Olympic medal in figure skating without even being in the top five or ten in one of the four traditional events is a lofty previously unheard of achievement. So yes, it is somewhat unusual and disconcerting to hear certain individual skaters being called Olympic medalists (which of course they are) when they have really not achieved the pinnacle yet in their individual discipline, and still have a lot to work on. :)
  6. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,476
    A little...I don't think about it too much. It just seems crazy to me that someone like Jeremy, who bombed so bad he risked taking the US out of medal contention, is an Olympic medalist, when far more greater performing athletes aren't.
  7. ripingroar37

    ripingroar37 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    91
    You win an Olympic gold medal or an Olympic bronze medal, you are an Olympic gold or bronze medalist. What is the confusion.
  8. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    8,610
    No. It does not bother me when Olympic medalists are called Olympic medalists.

    :)
    Kasey and (deleted member) like this.
  9. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,490
    Oh well, to each their own perception. Jeremy Abbott is an extremely talented figure skater who despite having problems in the hot light of competition is certainly an accomplished skater and he definitely earned his way to the Olympics. He has a team bronze Olympic medal and he contributed despite not being at his best. Sure he got the rep of faltering and was unable to shake it in big international moments. There are plenty of skaters who have suffered inconsistencies in numerous competitions, while performing brilliantly in others ... Patrick Chan comes to mind for example. But many skaters experience consistency problems. The most consistent competitive skaters I can think of are Evgeny Plushenko and Michelle Kwan, and even they too had challenging moments on competition ice.

    It seems to come down to whether or not you can turn off the negative thought process when it matters most. Also luck and politics factor in, as well as personality. Being fully embraced by Fed and ISU judges definitely can make a difference.

    It is quite clearly a matter of luck and of being able to carve out your moment when it comes ... a matter of conquering nerves and showing that you are in control, right place, right time. That happened for Jeremy at 2014 U.S. Nationals, and at recent Worlds fp. Most spectacularly it happened for Machida at 2014 Worlds sp, for Denis Ten at 2013 Worlds, for Patrick Chan 2013 TEB and 2011 Worlds, for Jason Brown 2014 US Nats, and memorably for Brian Boitano 1988 Olympics. Also for Michelle Kwan on numerous occasions.


    As far as the Olympic medalist question, sure, a medalist is a medalist is a medallist whether or not won in a team effort or in one of the traditional four events. Over time I believe distinctions will naturally be made, not in the sense that a team medal has less value, but that with multiple events and opportunities to medal, category helps add clarity. Already I noticed a recent article mentions Peter Oppegard as an Olympic bronze medalist in the pair event.
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2014
  10. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Messages:
    12,772
    A team medal doesn't indicate that a skater/team are superior within their discipline. It indicates which team was the strongest as a whole.

    And I think team medalists will be referred to as _____ medalists in the team event, not just 'Olympic ___ medalists' or 'Olympic champions'.
    halffull and (deleted member) like this.
  11. frillit

    frillit Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    86
    Maxim Trankov calls himself a 2x Olympic gold medalist on twitter and that is all he says. I guess it depends on the individual. If you are someone like him who is dominant you must feel enpowered and like it were 2 individual competititions you would have won twice anyway. For someone like Abbott or Wagner you might feel cheesier and shyer about the honor.
  12. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,749
    To be fair, if the Russians that competed in the team events call themselves Olympic champions, or if Canadians from team event call themselves Olympic silver medalists, or if US skaters from team event call themselves Olympic bronze medalists, I am fine with that. I would probably not be fine if Japanese team won the gold and then Takahashi-Kihara would call themselves Olympic champions, because their current skating is so weak in comparison to the majority pairs who competed at Olympics that I can't see they would contribute to the overall result; they would be more of a hindrance. In comparison, the skaters from Russian team, Canadian team and US team were of reasonable standard and they all contributed somehow to the final results, so I am OK with them being Olympic medalists. So at least I feel their medal is deserved.
  13. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    7,871
    Yep, Trankov achieved in a couple of weeks what Protopopov, Zaitsev, Dmitriev, and Grinkov achieved over 4-8 years :rolleyes: ...
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2014
  14. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,016
    What I wish would happen is that the team event should happen after the individual events! No one cares much about the team event... This isn't gymnastics where the gymnasts qualify for the all around and individual events in the qualifying team competition in order to advance. A lot of the commentators took note of the fact that the skaters who competed in the team event looked tired and weren't able to put on their best performance on their individual competition nights.
  15. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,678
    I'm with those who say it should be clarified; I think an announcer should announce the skater who's just won a team medal as "Olympic team gold/silver/bronze medalist" simply to avoid confusion. I've translated quite a few texts for rhythmic gymnastics over the years; they've got an All Around World/European Championship and an Apparatus World/European Championship and it's usually said as something like "two-time World Champion with clubs and hoop" or "All Around World Champion" or whatever.
  16. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2007
    Messages:
    742
    I agree.

    The US team members that got Bronze do seem to identify it as Team Bronze on their web pages/facebooks
  17. Simone411

    Simone411 aka IceSkate98

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    7,132
    Just voted. No, it doesn't bother me at all because the Team Medalists are Olympic Medalists. They won Medals at the Olympics. :)
  18. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    3,255
    Why don't you be clear and just say the YOU don't care about the team event? Trust me, I think the skaters who skated in it and their federations (and may of their fans like me) cared about it quite a bit.
  19. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,142
    No one? I care. I know the athletes cared, and they skated like it. It was nice to see their happy faces when they received their Olympic medals.
  20. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    237
    Yes it bothers me. I have no intellectual rationalization, just an emotional gut reaction. I guess I'm old school and can't seem to take the team event seriously, at least not yet. No disrespect to the participating skaters and their efforts intended.
  21. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2002
    Messages:
    5,697
    Interesting. This caused a thought to pop into my head. D/W have a gold and silver.............and bronze. No way, no how did they "earn" a bronze for their team experience. I know, a medal is a medal, and all that, but it is kind of a bummer for them. It doesn't reflect well on their world standing.
  22. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    3,255
    OK, you've lost me. Exactly how does this reflect badly on their world standing????? Yes, they skated far better than bronze, but I don't see how this is a big black mark against them.
  23. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,073
    I don't really understand how a bronze is a negative for D/W either. They are now 3x Olympic medalists instead of 2x; and they will always be ice dancing champions- which of course is the one they are going to publicize the most.

    I don't think judges will look at them (if they come back) and think "oh, they're only bronze medalists."
  24. raineydaze

    raineydaze New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    It doesn't bother me that the skaters who won medals in the team event are call Olympic medalists. I can understand why it bothers some because it's a brand new event and hasn't even appeared in Worlds yet. But for me, coming from a gymnastics background, a team medal is just as legitimate as an individual medal. With regards to Jeremy Abbott, yeah he didn't skate his best in the team competition. But in Beijing 2008, Alicia Sacramone didn't do her best in the team competition either. She fell twice (once on beam, once on floor), but the US team still won the silver medal, and that silver medal is Sacramone's only Olympic medal. I've never had a problem considering her an Olympic medalist. Sometimes individual athletes on a team make mistakes, but others can perform well enough to make up some ground and still earn the team a medal. That's part of the thrill of team competition.
    spikydurian and (deleted member) like this.
  25. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,490
    I agree with your comments, Yazmeen in your post #138. Altho' I don't care all that much about the team event, I do think it is nice for the skaters to have more opportunities to medal.

    Also, altho' it seemed to work out this time for the team event to precede the individual events, it will be interesting to see how that plays out at future Olympics. And, I'm not sure how it will eventually work out for some of the skaters to be performing their same routines twice.
  26. DreamSkates

    DreamSkates New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    815
    In some olympic events there are opportunities to win multiple medals (swimming for example) or team medals (gymnastics). So why not with figure skating? I think they should consider short program medals, free skate medals, and the overall medal.
  27. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2002
    Messages:
    5,697
    The bronze, although an Oly Medal, in no way reflects their performance. That is all. They had 4 first place, gold worthy performance. I don't, of course, thank it hurts their career.....it simply does not reflect their Oly skating.

    I was not precise in my language. I meant it does not reflect accurately on their achievements.
  28. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    3,255
    Thanks, that makes more sense.
  29. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,960
    deleted..
  30. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,374
    It does, however, reflect accurately on the team achievement, and they were part of that team.
  31. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    810
    Yes, I think this is the challenge with this situation. In the past, whenever we heard someone was an Olympic medalist, we knew what it meant. Now we have to check and remember whether it was a 'normal' medal from the regular competition that they earned themselves, or from the Team Event at this Olympics. It does make it a bit confusing.

    I'd be interested to know what other Olympians think - do they feel it tarnishes the 'regular' Olympic medal to have a new figure skating Team Event?
  32. RockTheTassel

    RockTheTassel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,123
    The way I see it, everyone who follows skating knows who has the team medals, who has the individual medals, and what they each mean. The rest likely don't care and won't remember anyway.
  33. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,236
    Exactly. It just doesn't matter to the rest of the world. And hey, the team members all earned a medal.
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  34. NMURA

    NMURA Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Messages:
    374
    Even ordinary viewers (not everyone, though) remember Lipininski in Nagano, or Plushenko in Torino, but only "skating fans" know the Russian "team" gold medalists. Everyone knows Usain Bolt but no one cares who won 4x400 relay gold medals. Individuals medals are much more valuable than "team" ones. That is a common knowledge.
  35. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    3,538
    That is a huge problem. I hope in the future it's recognized by the ISU and changed. No skater should have already won a medal before others have skated. Nor should skaters end up in 6th and not have it count because the rest of the team is that far ahead. ALL of the members of the 'team' should be rewarded and penalized based on their skate.

    There is a difference between how the medals were earned. Johnson only being the best in one apparatus verses Liukin averaging the best on all four. Is Nastia Liukin a better gymnast, yes at that competition she was.

    As it should be in all sports.
  36. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,073
    I think more Americans know Kerri Strug than Carly Patterson (whose name I had to look up, since I just remember her as "that girl who won before Nastia")
  37. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,142
    So, if Kevin Durant wins an OGM in basketball in 2016, he is 'only' a 'team gold medallist' and inferior to those individual stars like balance beam individual event, or a tennis player, for example?
  38. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,073
    I'm not sure there is a way to fix this. If three of your disciplines do really well, there really isn't a way to make sure that the other teams are still in a position to win by the fourth one.
  39. lauren329

    lauren329 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    214
    Obviously, if 3 disciplines dominate the field, that's going to place a team in a good position to win. But there are ways that could have made the team competition more exciting. Two possibilities:

    1) The point spead between the short (1-10) and the long (6-10) made the long program of little consequence. If they had made the LP, (2-4-6-8-10) instead of (6-7-8-9-10), that would have made things a bit closer and made the free skates of more consequence.

    2) New life after the SP and the elimination.
  40. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    2,245
    I don't think that's what julieann meant (though I could be wrong). Basketball isn't a good example because there is no individual event equivalent. It is a team sport. Period.

    All Olympic medals are amazing, IMHO. But the distinction in Gymnastics, Swimming, and other sports (now figure skating) with both individual and team events is important to some degree. I don't think you need to announce an athlete using the "team" distinction, but I do think it's noteworthy. They are not the same event, after all. That's not putting a value on the difference, it's just pointing out that medals were earned in different events.

    O-