Does it bother you when Olympic team event medalists are called "Olympic medalists"?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Sylvia, Apr 14, 2014.

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Does it bother you when Olympic team event medalists are called "Olympic medalists"?

  1. Yes

    78 vote(s)
    24.5%
  2. No

    169 vote(s)
    53.1%
  3. I may get used to it in time

    46 vote(s)
    14.5%
  4. Depends who the skater is

    25 vote(s)
    7.9%
  1. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    Nothing wrong with being nationalistic. The Olympics ARE nationalistic. Just because some of us value the skating than the nationality of the skater does not mean the Olympics are the same way.

    In a Team event, some players that would not win championships without their stars, but they do get the rings. I don't see why every skater on a team must be at the same high level in order to win a medal. That skater did perform and contributed at least some points toward the total.

    That said, an Olympic medal is an Olympic medal- Team event or not. It's time some skating fans stopped treating the team medal as not a real Olympic medal. The event was sanctioned by the IOC and based on the rules some skaters won medals as members of their teams.
     
  2. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    I never argued otherwise. The point in that post was that I don't agree with the idea that the general public doesn't differentiate between team victors vs individual victors. If they remember anything at all from a particular Olympic games, they remember the stories and either the individual athlete or the team as a whole. The individual athletes who dominated individual events like Phelps are certainly remembered differently from those who only won a team event.

    But I never said a team medal wasn't a valid Olympic medal. I just don't see a problem with clarifying that it's a team medal. It's not snobbish. It's the truth. If people interpret that as demeaning to the team medals, then they are afraid of the truth.

    Most if any of the dissent over this has come from skating forums. So basically the fans of certain team winners who had no chance at an individual medal probably feel that their favorite skaters were slighted on skating forums. No one's arguing that these skaters received a fake medal, just that it's not worth the same as an individual medal. No one seems to be arguing that all medals are worth the same, rather they just seem to be arguing the same technicality that they're all still Olympic medals. But that was never up for debate to begin with..
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  3. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    Yes, because they have to know people will think in terms of the individual events first so it seems a slightly deceitful way of trying to inflate their accomplishment. I think it entirely appropriate though to introduce someone as "Olympic team silver medalist" (or whatever).
     
  4. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    I dont think most clarify what their olympic gold is in other sports. Members of the Mag 7, all except Miller who never won a major individual title in anything ever, not even a world event gold (not even Dawes which is surprising), all call themselves Olympic Gold medalists. They dont say Olympic Team gold when they introduce themselves and arent with their teammates. The same with relay gold medalists in track and swimming, they just call themselves an Olympic Champion. Josh Davis trumpets himself as the only swimmer to win 3 golds at the Atlanta Games, even though all were in relays, and he never even won an individual medal at a World Championships in his whole career.
     
  5. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

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    The statement you have made that I put in bold type is what bothers me - who is to say that that medal is not "worth" the same as the individual medals? I understand your point, but just because one person or even many think it's not "worth" the same doesn't mean it really is worth less. For all your arguing that other fans feel their favorites might get slighted by having the medal designated with the qualifier of "team medal," you also seem to suggest that you want to insure that your favorites or skaters who you think are better who did win individual medals are considered as having a "better" or "higher" medal that is worth more by insisting on the team medal having that qualifier or "asterisk" next to it. In other words, they have to be called team medals because they are a "lesser" achievement.

    I'll say it then - I think the medals are equal on a scale of "worth," they are all Olympic medals. While there are unique pressures that come with an individual event or medal, there are also unique pressures that come with team medals (just ask Kerri Strug about that last vault...). I would never insist that an asterisk should be placed next to her medal to insure the world knows it was "only" for the team event.
     
  6. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

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    Conversely, then, why should it matter that it is designated as Olympic Team Figure Skating Gold – if all medals have equal value?
     
  7. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    K, and the earth is flat and the sun goes round the moon.

    Except it is in the record books...
     
  8. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    Kerry Fug became way more famous for winning her team gold than she ever would have even if she won the AA (which scary as it is she could have if she competed and hit, and Lilia fell, along with the rest of the splatfest, and with the inflated scores she was getting at those games).
     
  9. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    That's nice that you're bringing up exceptions from other sports that have almost always had team events
     
  10. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    Well if team event stays in skating longer the thinking will change and be more in line with those sports. If it has a short shelf life, there wont be much to talk about much longer. It is too early to tell.
     
  11. leesaleesa

    leesaleesa Active Member

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    I always thought it sucked to have just one shot at a medal. Skiers get more than one event, so do snowboarders and speedskaters. Why not figure skaters? I think of Kerri Strug as an Olympic medalist because she was on a team that won a medal. Same for Gracie, Ashley, et al.
     
  12. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    Yes, if I look at Bobrova/Soloviev and think they can be called "Olympic champions". That whole reversed podium order of dance teams made my blood boil.

    Thinking of all the other amazing skaters who did not get to be Olympic champions but B/S are is not helping either.
     
  13. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    I can't believe there are actually people who believe an Olympic team gold is equal to an individual gold. As if Julia Lipnitskaia's gold is equal to Yuna's when Yuna couldn't even compete in the team event. What a joke!
     
  14. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    I think it is cheating.....I know it is not. IIRC, all the people on the team get a Gold Medal, whether they placed or medaled in the team event? So, had the American won the team event, Jeremy Abbot would have been a gold medal winner? That is simply wrong. Skating is an individual sport (or pair). There is not Team involved. IMO it is contrived. It is not like volleyball where it is actually a team effort. That is just my old stubborn opinion.
     
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  15. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    I consider Julia's wonderous gold to be worth more than Adelina's farcial one. And if the team event was in individual format Julia would have crushed Yu Na anyway, and you know that. Nobody could beat a clean Russian in Sochi, not prime Kwan with a quadruple jump, prime Ito with a quintruple jump, or prime Janet Lynn with a triple axel and full set of triples. Heck not even an unclean but stayed on her feet Russian as Adelina's messy LP proved.

    I wish Maria had been born 16 years later, she probably would have been given the gold even for her 98 Olympic performances here in Sochi.
     
  16. lauren329

    lauren329 Active Member

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    I find it amazing that skating fans who bemoan the sport getting no exposure are now complaining about an extra medal event that gives that athletes more exposure and another medal chance. I don't see why this is hard. Medals were placed around the neck of the team medalists while their flags were raised. They are thereby Olympic gold/silver//bronze medalists. No asterisks, no qualifiers needed. While they can't in the same vein say they are the Olympic ladies/pairs/mens/dance X medalist, I haven't heard of any of them holding themselves out as such.

    Swimmers who swim only the prelims of a relay receive medals and don't even get up on the podium. McKayla Maroney did 2 vault for a grand total of about 20 Olympic seconds, sat out all the other events and is an Olympic Champion with the Fierce Five. Still, they contributed to the team and I don't think anyone insists on calling them Olympic prelim relay medalists or Olympic team medalists who performed one apparatus. And its totally irrelevant what their individual medal chances might have been to whether they were in fact awarded a medal in the team competition.

    I think its sad that some skating fans want to tear down the athletes who EARNED medals as part of a team or make their medal something lesser. I couldn't be more thrilled that Ashley, Gracie, Marissa, Simon, Jason and even Jeremy (who really in no way helped the team but was a part of it and that's how it works) will be introduced as Olympic bronze medalists forever. I think its great for them and a great boost for US Figure Skating and a great motivator for skaters especially in disciplines in which a particular country might not be as strong. In the same vein, I loathe B&S' skating but I don't begrudge them the title of Olympic champions b/c they were in fact part of a team that won the gold in a spectacularly dominant fashion.
     
  17. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    But if you actually read the thread, there are some people who believe there is no distinction between a team medal and an individual medal. The fact is there is a distinction, both in the official record and in real life. :TnD1:
     
  18. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    To me, the idea that it's insulting to clarify that it was a team medal vs individual is like saying that it's insulting to clarify that Nastia got a gold in all around and Shawn got a gold in balance beam. Who cares? They're both golds, right?! We should never mention the specifics cos it's "insulting"!
     
  19. lauren329

    lauren329 Active Member

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    I've read the thread, thanks though. And true, much in the same sense that there is a distinction between a medal earned for speed skating and a medal earned for curling. Or between the apparatuses in gymnastics. The event is different if you look up the video or the official record. The Olympic medal is the same. Anyone who earns an Olympic bronze medal at the Olympics is an Olympic bronze medalist. It may be further qualified on an official record but it need not be qualified at all. If fans choose to decide that certain medals are more meaningful or more important, that's their prerogative to feel that way but its also not unequivocally correct.
     
  20. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    I think that Jeremy getting Bronze contributed greatly to souring me on the event because there have been other skaters that performed better than him but have no medal.

    ITA that the Team Event is contrived, particularly since there are already team skating events, which are the pairs and dance events.
     
  21. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    Yes I'm sure most skaters feel the same as you do that a team medal is worth the same as an individual medal. Keep on dreaming that it's a subjective fan-based opinion that individual medals are worth more. I'm sure Mao Asada can't sleep at night because she lost the precious team medal to Ashley Wagner

    I don't understand why Speedy (or was it him?) decided on having a team event when rumors say he wants to get rid of the short specifically to minimize costs. Why even introduce the team event? (both at the Olympics and the world team trophy)
     
  22. Fialka88

    Fialka88 New Member

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    I think part of the issue is that the team event in Sochi was not very well thought out. It has already been discussed that the short programs had too much weight. The fact that Ilinykh/Katsalapov were Olympic gold medalists before they even performed their free dance is a huge problem.
     
  23. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    When comparing Shawn to Nastia it is important to specify the medal.
    When Shawn appears in local commercials they call her Olympic Gold medalist. They don't stop to clarify it wasn't all around, and she isn't really the best.

    Comparing skaters to each other, of course the color and event matter. Announcing their own achievement, they are all olympic medalists.
     
  24. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    I agree with all of this
     
  25. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Does the ISU pay for the Olympics? The Japanese federation has picked up WTT in the past. So if IOC pays for the Olympics, these events have no bearing on the budget. And an extra olympic medal adds prestige to the sport. Is Michael phelps really the greatest Olympian of all time, or just the greatest olympic swimmer- which gave him a lot more opportunity to rack up medals. Now skaters have a chance at more.
     
  26. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    They are both called Olympic gold medallists, without the specifics, when they are introduced. One is not considered inferior to the other.
     
  27. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    Yes and getting an A in Calculus is the same as getting an A in PE. Or getting straight A's with a regular curriculum vs an honors/AP curriculum.




    NOT.

    No one is insinuating that Shawn be introduced as "Olympic gold medalist...but inferior to Nastia Liukin". But when gymnastics fans compare the two they certainly know the difference between their medals.
     
  28. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    How is it cheating? When the Lakers won the NBA championship, should only Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol get the rings but not the players that came off the bench, those with less talent and less minutes?

    A team was created and a new event was created for these Olympics, and hopefully future ones. I was skeptical at first, but when I actually watched the event, I was sold on it. More skaters got Olympic medals, and it was a different event, thus adding variety to it.

    I don't know if this really happenened several decades ago, but I can envision figure skating as compulsory figures etched into the ice, by individuals. At some point they introduced a pairs event, and later an ice dance event. That was different, as was the free skating. I don't know if people protested against these new disciplines because they were not 'individual' and they were not etching compulsory figures into ice.

    Would you say all these were contrived just because they did not exist inititally?
     
  29. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    This kind of attitude really bothers me. Why are you belittling the team Olympic medal? It involved hard work and performances by the skaters. Nobody got the medal just for showing up.

    I also question your Calculus vs PE example. I had always done very well in Math, but not so well in PE. I have great respect for those who do well in PE. They are not inferior to those who do well in Math.
     
  30. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    Because inferior skaters can medal over superior skaters who 1) have weaker teams 2) may not even get to compete

    Yes I'm rallying against all people who are athletically inclined. :( Never mind the fact that most people will agree that in general Calculus is a harder class. Btw I'm not asking for examples of people who had asthma or physical problems and struggled with PE, I'm talking about the norm not the exception. Are we really going to debate as to whether PE or Calculus is harder?