Does it bother you when Olympic team event medalists are called "Olympic medalists"?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Sylvia, Apr 14, 2014.

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Does it bother you when Olympic team event medalists are called "Olympic medalists"?

  1. Yes

    78 vote(s)
    24.5%
  2. No

    169 vote(s)
    53.1%
  3. I may get used to it in time

    46 vote(s)
    14.5%
  4. Depends who the skater is

    25 vote(s)
    7.9%
  1. leesaleesa

    leesaleesa Active Member

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    I always thought it sucked to have just one shot at a medal. Skiers get more than one event, so do snowboarders and speedskaters. Why not figure skaters? I think of Kerri Strug as an Olympic medalist because she was on a team that won a medal. Same for Gracie, Ashley, et al.
  2. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    Yes, if I look at Bobrova/Soloviev and think they can be called "Olympic champions". That whole reversed podium order of dance teams made my blood boil.

    Thinking of all the other amazing skaters who did not get to be Olympic champions but B/S are is not helping either.
  3. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    I can't believe there are actually people who believe an Olympic team gold is equal to an individual gold. As if Julia Lipnitskaia's gold is equal to Yuna's when Yuna couldn't even compete in the team event. What a joke!
  4. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    I think it is cheating.....I know it is not. IIRC, all the people on the team get a Gold Medal, whether they placed or medaled in the team event? So, had the American won the team event, Jeremy Abbot would have been a gold medal winner? That is simply wrong. Skating is an individual sport (or pair). There is not Team involved. IMO it is contrived. It is not like volleyball where it is actually a team effort. That is just my old stubborn opinion.
    bardtoob and (deleted member) like this.
  5. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    I consider Julia's wonderous gold to be worth more than Adelina's farcial one. And if the team event was in individual format Julia would have crushed Yu Na anyway, and you know that. Nobody could beat a clean Russian in Sochi, not prime Kwan with a quadruple jump, prime Ito with a quintruple jump, or prime Janet Lynn with a triple axel and full set of triples. Heck not even an unclean but stayed on her feet Russian as Adelina's messy LP proved.

    I wish Maria had been born 16 years later, she probably would have been given the gold even for her 98 Olympic performances here in Sochi.
  6. lauren329

    lauren329 Member

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    I find it amazing that skating fans who bemoan the sport getting no exposure are now complaining about an extra medal event that gives that athletes more exposure and another medal chance. I don't see why this is hard. Medals were placed around the neck of the team medalists while their flags were raised. They are thereby Olympic gold/silver//bronze medalists. No asterisks, no qualifiers needed. While they can't in the same vein say they are the Olympic ladies/pairs/mens/dance X medalist, I haven't heard of any of them holding themselves out as such.

    Swimmers who swim only the prelims of a relay receive medals and don't even get up on the podium. McKayla Maroney did 2 vault for a grand total of about 20 Olympic seconds, sat out all the other events and is an Olympic Champion with the Fierce Five. Still, they contributed to the team and I don't think anyone insists on calling them Olympic prelim relay medalists or Olympic team medalists who performed one apparatus. And its totally irrelevant what their individual medal chances might have been to whether they were in fact awarded a medal in the team competition.

    I think its sad that some skating fans want to tear down the athletes who EARNED medals as part of a team or make their medal something lesser. I couldn't be more thrilled that Ashley, Gracie, Marissa, Simon, Jason and even Jeremy (who really in no way helped the team but was a part of it and that's how it works) will be introduced as Olympic bronze medalists forever. I think its great for them and a great boost for US Figure Skating and a great motivator for skaters especially in disciplines in which a particular country might not be as strong. In the same vein, I loathe B&S' skating but I don't begrudge them the title of Olympic champions b/c they were in fact part of a team that won the gold in a spectacularly dominant fashion.
  7. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    But if you actually read the thread, there are some people who believe there is no distinction between a team medal and an individual medal. The fact is there is a distinction, both in the official record and in real life. :TnD1:
  8. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    To me, the idea that it's insulting to clarify that it was a team medal vs individual is like saying that it's insulting to clarify that Nastia got a gold in all around and Shawn got a gold in balance beam. Who cares? They're both golds, right?! We should never mention the specifics cos it's "insulting"!
  9. lauren329

    lauren329 Member

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    I've read the thread, thanks though. And true, much in the same sense that there is a distinction between a medal earned for speed skating and a medal earned for curling. Or between the apparatuses in gymnastics. The event is different if you look up the video or the official record. The Olympic medal is the same. Anyone who earns an Olympic bronze medal at the Olympics is an Olympic bronze medalist. It may be further qualified on an official record but it need not be qualified at all. If fans choose to decide that certain medals are more meaningful or more important, that's their prerogative to feel that way but its also not unequivocally correct.
  10. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    I think that Jeremy getting Bronze contributed greatly to souring me on the event because there have been other skaters that performed better than him but have no medal.

    ITA that the Team Event is contrived, particularly since there are already team skating events, which are the pairs and dance events.
  11. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    Yes I'm sure most skaters feel the same as you do that a team medal is worth the same as an individual medal. Keep on dreaming that it's a subjective fan-based opinion that individual medals are worth more. I'm sure Mao Asada can't sleep at night because she lost the precious team medal to Ashley Wagner

    I don't understand why Speedy (or was it him?) decided on having a team event when rumors say he wants to get rid of the short specifically to minimize costs. Why even introduce the team event? (both at the Olympics and the world team trophy)
  12. Fialka88

    Fialka88 New Member

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    I think part of the issue is that the team event in Sochi was not very well thought out. It has already been discussed that the short programs had too much weight. The fact that Ilinykh/Katsalapov were Olympic gold medalists before they even performed their free dance is a huge problem.
  13. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    When comparing Shawn to Nastia it is important to specify the medal.
    When Shawn appears in local commercials they call her Olympic Gold medalist. They don't stop to clarify it wasn't all around, and she isn't really the best.

    Comparing skaters to each other, of course the color and event matter. Announcing their own achievement, they are all olympic medalists.
  14. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    I agree with all of this
  15. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Does the ISU pay for the Olympics? The Japanese federation has picked up WTT in the past. So if IOC pays for the Olympics, these events have no bearing on the budget. And an extra olympic medal adds prestige to the sport. Is Michael phelps really the greatest Olympian of all time, or just the greatest olympic swimmer- which gave him a lot more opportunity to rack up medals. Now skaters have a chance at more.
  16. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    They are both called Olympic gold medallists, without the specifics, when they are introduced. One is not considered inferior to the other.
  17. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    Yes and getting an A in Calculus is the same as getting an A in PE. Or getting straight A's with a regular curriculum vs an honors/AP curriculum.




    NOT.

    No one is insinuating that Shawn be introduced as "Olympic gold medalist...but inferior to Nastia Liukin". But when gymnastics fans compare the two they certainly know the difference between their medals.
  18. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    How is it cheating? When the Lakers won the NBA championship, should only Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol get the rings but not the players that came off the bench, those with less talent and less minutes?

    A team was created and a new event was created for these Olympics, and hopefully future ones. I was skeptical at first, but when I actually watched the event, I was sold on it. More skaters got Olympic medals, and it was a different event, thus adding variety to it.

    I don't know if this really happenened several decades ago, but I can envision figure skating as compulsory figures etched into the ice, by individuals. At some point they introduced a pairs event, and later an ice dance event. That was different, as was the free skating. I don't know if people protested against these new disciplines because they were not 'individual' and they were not etching compulsory figures into ice.

    Would you say all these were contrived just because they did not exist inititally?
  19. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    This kind of attitude really bothers me. Why are you belittling the team Olympic medal? It involved hard work and performances by the skaters. Nobody got the medal just for showing up.

    I also question your Calculus vs PE example. I had always done very well in Math, but not so well in PE. I have great respect for those who do well in PE. They are not inferior to those who do well in Math.
  20. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    Because inferior skaters can medal over superior skaters who 1) have weaker teams 2) may not even get to compete

    Yes I'm rallying against all people who are athletically inclined. :( Never mind the fact that most people will agree that in general Calculus is a harder class. Btw I'm not asking for examples of people who had asthma or physical problems and struggled with PE, I'm talking about the norm not the exception. Are we really going to debate as to whether PE or Calculus is harder?
  21. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    This is true of every team sport. Replace skater with whatever word is germane to the sport.

    (And I know a number of people who would say that PE is harder than calculus... But to go to your example, I've seen multiple high schools where the valedictorian took the perfect grades in easy classes strategy. They still got the honor, and resulting scholarships, over much smarter students who learned more in AP classes.)
  22. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    Yup, but sports fans definitely know the difference.
  23. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    This sounds unlikely. At many schools, there is often a tie (sometimes between as many as 20 people) for valedictorian, so they might break the tie based upon the difficulty of the curriculum chosen. At other schools, advanced classes are weighted more heavily so that students can get higher than the traditional 4.0 if they take AP, honors, IB classes. Schools aren't dumb enough to give it to someone who took all easy classes.
  24. angelflies

    angelflies Member

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    Who cares. Any real fan of the sport knows what kind of medal they won and can judge its value for themselves. For someone who doesnt follow or have awareness of that sport, the people could lie and make up something altogether and you wouldnt know the difference anyway, so what is wrong with factually stating what is technically true- Olympic gold or Olympic medalist.
  25. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Apparently some are. Our district weighted honor over regular, but not AP over honors. My friend was #2 to a case like I described in a neighboring school.

    They also had to put rules down about transferring from an easier school (where it was easy to get good grades) to a more difficult one the last semester senior year because they were sued multiple times.

    I don't know if it was the state or district but valedictorian got a year of free tuition, so it was a big deal and those top students definetly played the game to keep their GPA top. AP classes could kill it (or being in a sport that required a class).

    When I taught I saw it become even more common.
  26. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    I don't see it as cheating or even as lying, but it would be attempting to deceive if directed at folks who don't pay that much attention to skating or likely even remember there was a team event. Let's be honest. Some of these skaters weren't good enough to get anywhere near a podium on their own but got dragged into the medals by having some strong teammates. (Say thank you, Jeremy and Kaetlyn.)

    I notice that in their promotional materials, SOI is not calling the US skaters bronze medalists, they are saying "team bronze medalists" (except Davis & White of course).
  27. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Not on the U.S. and Canadian SOI sites, though:
    U.S.: http://www.starsonice.com/the-skaters.html

    A recent thread in GSD was titled "Kaetlyn Osmond - Olympic Silver Medalist?"
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  28. lauren329

    lauren329 Member

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    I was at SOI in NJ the other night. The team bronze medalists were initially introduced in the following "2 time US Champion(s) and Olympic bronze medalist(s)" for Ashley and C/S. "4 time US champion and Olympic bronze medalist" for Jeremy. "US ladies champion and Olympic bronze medalist" for Gracie. "Olympic bronze medalist" for Jason. When they did second numbers, it was just "Olympic bronze medalist." There was no team qualifier at any point and I really wouldn't expect there to be at US tour.
  29. rvi5

    rvi5 New Member

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  30. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Excuse me but I don't have asthma or any physical problems. How dare you assume that I have some physical disability or a disease! Athletics is simply not my strong point. I am very good at Calculus and other Math courses. Your condescending attitude is very troubling.

    I have already addressed the less talented members of a TEAM- an idea that you seem to bother you a lot. A TEAM wins as a whole, regardless of who has more talent. The less talented ones have their contributions also.

    With this, I am going to stop arguing with you.
  31. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    It seriously doesn't matter. The general public does not give it much thought. Yes die hard skating fans will know the difference. As for not so die hard skating fans...after they read someone won an Olympic medal, they will forget about it 10 seconds later. Ashley Wagner Olympic bronze medalist, Carolina Kostner Olympic bronze medalist. Ask a non skating fan from the US 10 min later and they will say Nancy Kerrigan won the whole dang event.

    You win a medal, you win a medal. I am sure people like Jeremy look at their medal and know they did zero to contribute to it, but at the end of the day he was still part of the team. He is kind of like the football players who just sit on the sidelines during the entire superbowl but still get a ring if their team wins.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  32. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    Seriously? I wasn't accusing YOU of having a physical disability. I was telling you that I didn't need you to bring up such examples to prove your point as they would be the exception, not the norm. I'm far from athletic myself but I always received A's in PE because my PE teachers always handed them out like candy if you showed up every day and at least tried. That may not be the case for everyone, but that would certainly never happen in a Calc class. In general most people would agree Calc is a harder class.

    While I can accept differing opinions, this is the first time I've seen people so passionately championing PE's difficulty level in comparison to Calculus :scream: (a random analogy I just thought off the top of my head that is now being dissected).
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  33. moebius

    moebius Well-Known Member

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    SOI broadcast did specify that those skaters who won only a team Olympic medal were referred to as 'Olympic Team Medallist'.
  34. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    Not what I am saying at all. BTW - I said I knew it was not cheating.

    Your example proves my point. Everyone on the basketball team contributes to the team effort. They practice drills together, travel together, etc., etc., etc. A country's figure skating "team" does nothing together except press promotions, and represent the same country.

    Has nothing, in my mind, to do with new or old.
    OliviaPug and (deleted member) like this.
  35. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    I have no problem if they are called the Olympic team gold medalists or team silver medalists, I think it's same in gymnastics. But for the market value, I have no problem if they are called Olympic medalists in shows.
  36. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    An Olympic 'Team' medallist is still an Olympic medallist just as much as an individual medallist. Silly of anyone to think otherwise.
  37. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    And if you are Michelle Kwan, non-skating fans just go ahead and assume that medal was gold. Both of them...
    Which is probably why she is most often announced as "Two time Olympic medalist" and not "Bronze and Silver Olympic medalist". The description works better in her favor.
  38. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    But she is a two time Olympic Medalist...there is nothing deceiving about it. Same as how there is nothing deceiving about saying someone who won a team medal at the Olympics is an Olympic medalist.
  39. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

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    It's fascinating to see that even a poll of uber post season fans, largely feel that it doesn't bother them. This to me translates into "the general public" then has no idea whether the medal is of the truly rare individual event variety, or the team type. This will translate over time (pretty quickly I should think given the public's short memory) to a dilution of the market power or 'value' of the Olympic individual medal, and having a Team medal will be held in pretty much the same high esteem. Interesting.
  40. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

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