Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Sylvia, Apr 14, 2014.
Please pick one option.
No, since they are in fact Olympics medalist and for almost all they gave it their best efforts in order to get their medals but it seems like a lot of people want the medals to be quantified as "team medals" so that it will be clearer.
And my viewpoint may also be due to the fact that since I'm a new figure skating fan, the team event at the Olympics didn't take getting used to.
Nope. They got a medal at the Olympics. Therefore, they are Olympic medalists.
No. They are actually Olympic Medalists so I don't see why it should bother anyone.
It makes me double take when I read things like "Skater X, Olympic Gold/Silver/Bronze Medalist", and then I remember it was in the team event, and a Tourette's style voice in my head says "not a proper medalist"
I am fine with it; I think what bothers some fans is that some of the skaters who received medals (eg: Kevin Reynolds, Castelli and Schnapir) had no shot whatsoever at individual medals, so they believe there should be a "qualifier." I don't - they did their teams proud with their performances (well, most of them) and they are Olympic Medalists, period.
I should have made this a poll option!
So did you vote?
Yeah, but it will take some getting used to. If it's an oly event, the'yre oly medalists.
No, but I think it should be clarified as a "team" medal.
I have been able to be in denial because I thought the team event was ill conceived, I disagreed with it being first (and still think it should come after the individual events) and becuase i was on holiday for the Olympics and didn't watch them I can totally ignore that the team event happened at all.
Is the team event here to stay? If it is then why don't they have it at worlds as well? It seems ridiculous to have a made up event for the Olympics that doesn't form any part of the figure skating season at any other time. For as long as it doesn't appear at the world championships, I won't view the team event at the Olympics as a "real" event.
Of course there's no denying a medal won at the Olympcis is just that...but I don't have to buy into it
It's OK to announce them as "member of the 2014 Olympics Team Event gold-medal winning team" (or silver or bronze) but NOT as 'the' gold or silver or bronze medalist.
Do winners of the cheesy ISU 'World Team Trophy' get announced as World Champs? Of course not.
That sure is wordy. If an announcer says 2014 Olympic Gold Medalist Julia Lipnitskaya; the statement is completely accurate. Nothing about that says she won the ladies figure skating event.
Probably because the event is not part of the World Championships.
As long as it's clarified as a team medal then it's fine.
As valid and well-earned as it is, I find it disingenuous how some people act as if it's worth the same as an individual medal. It's unfair to not only older skaters but current great skaters from countries without strong skating teams.
But that's not the issue and I feel like you're skirting the real issue based on a technicality. Introducing her as an Olympic gold medalist without clarifying that it's a team medal is misleading to general audiences and new followers of the sport.
I've never heard another sport clarify their team and relay medalist; to make sure no one thinks they are "real" medalists.
Well, for me there is no "real" issue- I think people are making an issue up to make sure that skaters they think are inferior aren't recognized for their medals.
And who said they weren't "real" medalists? The argument was that they weren't the same as individual medalists, not that their medals are fake or invalid.
And you contradict yourself because even if no one had to clarify it officially, you know based on the record who was a team vs relay medalist.
If someone wins in a swimming relay, I'm pretty sure they say oly gold medalist in the 400 meter relay. They might not do that for someone like Michael Phelps when they say 8 time Oly gold medalist but that is because his individual achievements trump the need to do so.
Or sometimes they are just announced as "Olympic Gold Medalist" with no further qualifier if the discussion is not about the event.
Check out this bio:
Kerri Strug has no individual Olympic medals. The expansive bio mentions the team event Gold, but the awards listed at the top of the page don't qualify it at all; and alot of people are not going to bother reading a block of text. (And actually- that text on the first page doesn't say the Barcelona medal was a team medal either; or that her World medals are all team medals.)
If they aren't giving an extensive bio- there is no need to mention the event.
..Or because it's a completely different medal?
I should clarify, I'm fine with the media casually calling Gracie or whomever an Olympic medalist without mentioning the team aspect, but the official record will still specify that it was a team medal. And that obviously applies to swimming or whatever as well. So true followers of the sport certainly know that it's not the same thing.
During Worlds, where there was no team event, it bothered me to refer to any of the TE/not individual event skaters as medalists without qualifying that their medal was in TE. It just sounds disingenuous (although technically true) to announce Wagner (who I like) simply as an Olympic medalist as she's about to take ice in a singles event. The medal was for something different than what we're about to watch, and needs more context, IMO.
And how long has gymnastics or swimming had team events? Decades?
How many times does the Olympics need to have a team event before it is unnecessary to qualify it in figure skating?
Even if gymnastics has had one for decades, when you hear someone is an Olympic Gold medalist in gymnast - do you assume it is team? It is still a seperate event, why does it not matter which one it is? Why does it not need further qualification if skating does? What about a gymnast who is gold medalist in bars; can she call herself Olympic Gold Medalist? Or does that lead one to believe she is the all-around winner?
A gold medal is a gold medal. Unless the situation needs context, there is no reason to always qualify what event it was won in.
Probably a few cycles at least, since Olympic figure skating has been around almost a century and has been only an individual sport up until now.
Anyone who actually cares about these sports does differentiate between individual and team medals, even in gymnastics and swimming, especially if they're comparing athletes. It's only in general instances like a quick bio or profile that it's not clarified.
I don't follow gymnastics at all and even I remember differentiating between the winners of the individual vs team events. Why? Because there's often a rivalry that's played up in the media and sometimes the rivalry comes from the same country (Shawn vs Nastia) even though they were both from the same team. Even casual watchers aren't that clueless...
In general, I always get the sense during the Olympics that nationalism comes even more into play during team events vs individual. There is a clear distinction in the viewer's mind for many reasons, one of which is that there's an entirely different dynamic when you're watching a team competition unfold (it's not based on the performance of just one athlete).
They are Olympic medalists. OGMs are often announced simply as OGMs, not OGM in the Pairs; Dance; Ladies; Mens event.
So why qualify it with team event? When Katia skates alone, is she always, every single time announced as "two-time OGM in the pairs event," to be sure no-one thinks she won the ladies event. I doubt it. I bet she is announced as two-time OGM.
Sure, in like an exhibition skate, but I'd argue that in almost every other context Sergei is almost always brought up. Even if she were giving some motivational speech and was introduced without any mention of Sergei, she would inevitably have to mention him herself.
When the 2008 Beijing Olympics were going on, I specifically remember Nastia getting the most fanfare when she won the individual all around. Despite the fact that Shawn also won gold for the balance beam.
Most general audiences remember Nastia as the gymnastics ladies' victor at that Olympics (and China as the team victor). They don't remember Nastia and Shawn as both being on the same level just because they both got a gold medal...
Sure some gold medals are worth more than others. However all are still a gold medal. Had Nastia won only silver in the AA (and someone other than Shawn won gold) and Shawn won the gold on beam, Shawn would probably still get more attention for her "gold" medal than Nastia's silver, despite the AA being more prestigious. With both having a gold, but one being the coveted all around, and one winning 5 medals to other's 4, it is obvious which was the victor of the games.
They ARE olympic medalists!! They competed in a sanctioned Olympic event and earned a bronze medal. Would they rather have earned an individual medal (like Charlie and Meryl)? Yes. Are they going to return their team bronze and delete it from their resumes? No!! And neither would I!! People should quit being so snobbish on here.
I don't think it makes one damn bit of difference to anyone other than a tiny handful of die-hard skating fans.
Nothing wrong with being nationalistic. The Olympics ARE nationalistic. Just because some of us value the skating than the nationality of the skater does not mean the Olympics are the same way.
In a Team event, some players that would not win championships without their stars, but they do get the rings. I don't see why every skater on a team must be at the same high level in order to win a medal. That skater did perform and contributed at least some points toward the total.
That said, an Olympic medal is an Olympic medal- Team event or not. It's time some skating fans stopped treating the team medal as not a real Olympic medal. The event was sanctioned by the IOC and based on the rules some skaters won medals as members of their teams.
I never argued otherwise. The point in that post was that I don't agree with the idea that the general public doesn't differentiate between team victors vs individual victors. If they remember anything at all from a particular Olympic games, they remember the stories and either the individual athlete or the team as a whole. The individual athletes who dominated individual events like Phelps are certainly remembered differently from those who only won a team event.
But I never said a team medal wasn't a valid Olympic medal. I just don't see a problem with clarifying that it's a team medal. It's not snobbish. It's the truth. If people interpret that as demeaning to the team medals, then they are afraid of the truth.
Most if any of the dissent over this has come from skating forums. So basically the fans of certain team winners who had no chance at an individual medal probably feel that their favorite skaters were slighted on skating forums. No one's arguing that these skaters received a fake medal, just that it's not worth the same as an individual medal. No one seems to be arguing that all medals are worth the same, rather they just seem to be arguing the same technicality that they're all still Olympic medals. But that was never up for debate to begin with..
Yes, because they have to know people will think in terms of the individual events first so it seems a slightly deceitful way of trying to inflate their accomplishment. I think it entirely appropriate though to introduce someone as "Olympic team silver medalist" (or whatever).
I dont think most clarify what their olympic gold is in other sports. Members of the Mag 7, all except Miller who never won a major individual title in anything ever, not even a world event gold (not even Dawes which is surprising), all call themselves Olympic Gold medalists. They dont say Olympic Team gold when they introduce themselves and arent with their teammates. The same with relay gold medalists in track and swimming, they just call themselves an Olympic Champion. Josh Davis trumpets himself as the only swimmer to win 3 golds at the Atlanta Games, even though all were in relays, and he never even won an individual medal at a World Championships in his whole career.
The statement you have made that I put in bold type is what bothers me - who is to say that that medal is not "worth" the same as the individual medals? I understand your point, but just because one person or even many think it's not "worth" the same doesn't mean it really is worth less. For all your arguing that other fans feel their favorites might get slighted by having the medal designated with the qualifier of "team medal," you also seem to suggest that you want to insure that your favorites or skaters who you think are better who did win individual medals are considered as having a "better" or "higher" medal that is worth more by insisting on the team medal having that qualifier or "asterisk" next to it. In other words, they have to be called team medals because they are a "lesser" achievement.
I'll say it then - I think the medals are equal on a scale of "worth," they are all Olympic medals. While there are unique pressures that come with an individual event or medal, there are also unique pressures that come with team medals (just ask Kerri Strug about that last vault...). I would never insist that an asterisk should be placed next to her medal to insure the world knows it was "only" for the team event.
Conversely, then, why should it matter that it is designated as Olympic Team Figure Skating Gold – if all medals have equal value?
K, and the earth is flat and the sun goes round the moon.
Except it is in the record books...
Kerry Fug became way more famous for winning her team gold than she ever would have even if she won the AA (which scary as it is she could have if she competed and hit, and Lilia fell, along with the rest of the splatfest, and with the inflated scores she was getting at those games).
That's nice that you're bringing up exceptions from other sports that have almost always had team events
Well if team event stays in skating longer the thinking will change and be more in line with those sports. If it has a short shelf life, there wont be much to talk about much longer. It is too early to tell.
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