Does bonus for highlight distribution need reform?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by caseyedwards, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Nathan Chen in his 4 minute long program in jrs is doing 2 double axels in the first two minutes and 7 triples in the second half. This is not highlight distribution. If you look at the program it is awful with the final two minutes just being jump jump jump spin end. There is nothing going on and it is awful. The bonus for highlight distribution was supposed to make skaters distribute their jumps throughout the program and hopefully end with a triple after beginning with a triple or quad. So you wouldn't see over and over things like jump jump jump etc and then the final 2 or 3 minutes was just spins and steps or mugging or whatever. But now that is the first two minutes. 2 double axels for Chen which is nothing spin step mugging and virtually doing very little and then second half just non stop jumping. This is not even a display of stamina because the first half is really nothing. Spins get no bonus and spins get no bonus! They are not highlights to be given bonuses for distributing! Jumps are but that is not what is going on.

    Max Aaron in seniors is doing 2/6 over 4 and a half minutes and that awful to watch like watching a jr man squeeze 6 jumps and end with a spin over 4 minutes. The ISU needs to do something before all skaters start emptying the first half of their programs of all difficulty to get the bonus on jumps. They are just saving their energy for 2:00 or whatever then just nonstop jumps with no highlight distribution at all.

    The bonus needs to be in the last 30 seconds! Not half. If the ISU wants to see skaters end with jumps that is the way to go.
     
  2. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

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    And where's the difference if you credit the last 30 seconds with a bonus and skaters then do jump, jump, jump etc, then nothing then cramp two jumps into the end? :p

    I think the problem lies within the program components. Obviously, what you described is not a well choreographed program. I doubt, however, that it got marked down accordingly. If judges started to do that (and by that I mean, give out the low marks, not just a 6 instead of a 7) and also would mark him down on transitions, because really, you cannot have transitions for two minutes if there's nothing to transition from, then the skaters would distribute the jumps as they're supposed to.
     
    spikydurian and (deleted member) like this.
  3. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    Set a max of four jumps or jump combinations/sequences eligible for bonus distribution. You still get base credit even if you do all of them in the second half, but the bonus no longer gets added.

    I found Nathan's program very, very unbalanced.
     
  4. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    In addition, you have instances of skaters placing all 3 combinations/sequences in the second half as well (unbalanced distribution or even instances of more "balanced" distribution as well)

    if it were me, I'd impose a rule forcing maximums of 3/5 for men's singles, 3/4 for ladies singles and at least one throw for pairs in the first half.
     
  5. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Why the pairs throw? I'm more annoyed at pairs programs with three lifts all in the back half, truth be told.
     
  6. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I agree.
     
  7. ltnskater

    ltnskater Active Member

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    This is actually a great idea!

    I personally think it's fine and actually more exciting to see combinations/sequences later in the 2nd half of the program, but that's just personal preference! (You always get a greater crowd reaction to combos especially 3 jump combos even if they are 3/2/2s late in the program)

    With regards to pairs, I don't think making it a requirement for a throw in the 1st half will do anything but hinder choreography flexilibity. The jumps, throws, and lifts all get bonuses. So what you would end up seeing is teams flipping a throw into the 1st half for a lift in the 2nd half, and with most teams already doing 2 lifts in the 2nd half... you would now probably see lifts backloaded.
    I would suggest in pairs, simply elements that get bonuses are restricted to 4, whether they are jumps, throws, or lifts, that's it.
     
  8. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Just a thought, but what if the bonuses were spread out more evenly throughout the program, like you get base value for jumps done in the first minute, 2% for those in the second minute, 5% for those in the third minute, 10% for those in the fourth minute, and 12% (or 15%?) for anything after 4 minutes?

    I'm sure this poses its own set of problems, but I don't think it's right that S&S doing a throw triple axel at the very end of their program get the exact same bonus as someone who waits until exactly the halfway mark with a big rest right before. The problem is that I want the system to reward difficult and innovative moves like that, but I don't want formulas like the 2/6 layouts discussed above. I'm not sure I want to limit the number of jumps you can do in the second half, though, because I don't like placing even more restrictions on program composition, and what if there's a skater who can make it choreographically interesting?
     
  9. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    As always, it's the PCS criteria and how it's applied.

    I'd hate to see limits on # of jumps per half of the program because then we'd see really unfree programs. What if someone popped a jump in the first half and wanted to add it in the 2nd half? What if skaters forget or don't realize when the halfway mark is and do prohibited jumps? They would lose points and the crowds would be confused.

    If a program loses balance, it should show up in the PCS. If you can do 6 jumps in the back half and make it work choreographically, good for you, you should be rewarded. But if you drop all attempts at choreography, interpretation and transitions to do so, your marks should reflect it.

    As long as the corridor exists, PCS marks will continue to be indecipherable to even serious fans.
     
  10. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    The zayak rule and rule on too many combos has made many skaters not like improvising! You always see skaters leave out combos because to do another would mean violating combo rule! They Could just alter the whole jump but you have seen a major decrease in any kind of improvising. You even see skaters leave out combos from short programs rather than improvise.

    I like the ideas of having progression of post halfway point bonus or just a cap on how many jumps can get a bonus regardless of how many are in the bonus.

    The last 30 second rule seems like it would be too late to start cramming but probably some would try.

    The choreography composition pcs category is where Chen should be docked a lot but like all the categories it's fills with so many bullet points and using two or three to lower the score probably would not be done!

    Everyone can see how chens program and what artunian did is just ridiculous.