Do C/L Need a Coaching Change?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Tak, Oct 24, 2010.

  1. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

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    Still getting over the shock of how bad they looked at NHK and how awful their programs are. They totally deserved 5th place. What happened to them?

    When they left their Italian coaches they were in the top 10 and moving up. Last year with their new French coaches they were 12th. It seems likely they wont even make the GPF this year, and they were just passed by 2 teams straight out of juniors. At this rate, they'll be lucky to make top 15 at Worlds.

    If I were them, I'd be looking around for new coaches ASAP - and I'd do it now and not wait til next season.

    I think they also need new programs fast, so I'd also be looking for a new choreographer. Since they wont be in the GPF [most likely] they'll have some time to work on new programs before Euros.

    But come on - Anna & Luca - stop screwing around in Lyons. Time to Say Goodbye.
     
  2. inflameduntamed

    inflameduntamed New Member

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    Hm, I wouldn't say their SD is awful. Especially because they won the Nebelhorn SD with it, even over P/B. I haven't had a chance to see their free dance though, so I can't comment on that.

    When exactly did they move to the French coaches? It seems their placement at Worlds was more to do with a mistake than with bad programs or technique, right?
     
  3. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure exactly when, but sometime before the last season [Olympic season] started. Before that, each year they were advancing forward. Last year [with the new coaches] they had that goth look, drug addict FD to god-awful music [which probably resulted in the "uplifting"rule talk] . Tastes differ, but I hated it and for whatever reason they didnt do well with it. C/P nearly beat them in GPF FD, and they fell to 12th at Worlds. It had to be more than 1 mistake for them to fall so much, and they werent doing that well all season.

    It's more than just making an occasional mistake - which can happen to anybody. Or even just having a bad performance. Looking at last season and their opening now, it's a consistent slide - and in ice dance that's a very bad sign. Perception is important. Being passed by 2 junior teams should be a huge wake-up call to them.

    To me, they looked obviously under-prepared for the NHK - and that is certainly the fault of the coaches. The music choice for the FD is odd to say the least, and Doris Day for the SD????? Ugh!
     
  4. Libertango

    Libertango New Member

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    They have a huge consistency problem IMO. I don't know if it's nerves or what...but they seem to make mistakes all the time. And that's never good in ice dance.
     
  5. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    Will they get passed by Alessandrini and Vaturi at Italian Nationals? That is possible.

    Whom should they go to? To Camarlengo, maybe? Surely not to Shpilband with everybody else in the world.
     
  6. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

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    Do you know what's happened to A/V? They suddenly have their names crossed out of their GP events. It's a shame, because a good result at GP for them would help them at Nationals. And C/L look definitely vulnerable.

    As for who to go to - well I could say almost anyone would be an improvement on their present coach :)

    Besides Camerlengo, there is C/P coaches, also Paul MacIntosh, there are also coaches in Italy [I dont know there names but I've seen them with couples] and I'm sure there are coaches in Russia too - 2 I know of are K/N's old coaches, and Gorshkov. So there are a lot of coaches around for them if they're looking - whcih they should be.
     
  7. nro

    nro New Member

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    I hated last year's FD but really enjoyed both of their programs this year. I think their problem is simply their inconsistency and perhaps they don't have as much difficulty outside of the required elements.
     
  8. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    I don't know what happened to A/V, but their names are still on the Skate Canada roster, as of today (oct 25)?

    http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00007086.htm
     
  9. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

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    That's strange, because when I downloaded the PDF chart of Ice Dance participants for the 6 events, there was a line through their names both times. I wonder what's going on?
     
  10. Ituriel

    Ituriel Member

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    C/L don't need a coaching change. You can see the improvement when they are ON. Their SD is amazing, the FD is just fine.

    IMO, the inconsistency problem is psychological. How is the relantioship with their coaches? How is the relationship between them? Are they an off ice couple? Or was they?:rolleyes:

    F/S also suffered inconsistency troubles in the past.
     
  11. robinhood

    robinhood Active Member

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    I thought Luca was from the Eville Side:EVILLE:. He's too cute to be straight. At least that's what I dream everynight:swoon:
     
  12. inflameduntamed

    inflameduntamed New Member

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    Haha. If I remember correctly, they did say they have dated before in an interview. I also remember them raising the possibility of working in Delaware with someone, but I don't know of who that would be.

    Anyway, I don't think their last year was that bad. Two GP silvers and one of their better Euros placements. There wasn't much of a difference after the change to me. They still seem to be inconsistent but are getting slightly better and better results each time overall.
     
  13. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    This.

    F&S languished in the bottom half of top of the top ten for years.(9th,9th,8th,9th) I remember after their disastrous 9th place finish in 2007 there was speculation that they would be passed by C&L by the 2010 Games.

    Much like F&S, C&L just need to get good programs and get over their consistency issues.

    I'm willing to give the current FD another shot when skated well, as I like the potential vibe the program has.
     
  14. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

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    Isnt that why they went to Krylova/Camerlengo? I thought their placements started improving substantially with their new coaches [not to mention their skating and their programs.]
     
  15. TwizzlerS

    TwizzlerS Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to believe Tanith's assessment of C&L's FD performance-- that is was a bad outing and they should forget it and move on. I'd like to believe this because I loved this team when they first came on the senior scene. But, I also question the wisdom of giving a gorgeous young couple a drug-addict themed program last year and this year choreographing that horrible crotch lift that is in both their SD and their FD.
     
  16. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Complete transformation from 2007 to 2008. I really thought they had the best FD at 2008 Worlds. :swoon:

    And that came late for them. (I think Scali was 28 at the time?)

    There's still a long time for C&L.
     
  17. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    I loved F/S's 2008 FD. I think it's my favourite FD from them. But then again, 2008 Worlds had so much wonderful dances. It was like the best FD night I've ever seen, so many unforgettable ones! And btw, Anna and Luca had great programs back then too and looked very promising.

    Yes, C/L still have time. People seem to forget that hitting 30 and still competeting in ice dancing is quite normal.

    on the other hand, it's sad to see what's going on with them now, but come on, they're coached by Del/Schoe's coaches, how bad can it get? I really agree with those who claim it's all their inconsistency problem.
     
  18. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    His coach is totally dreamy too! :swoon: Anna and Sylvia Fontana (with John Zimmerman) may be the luckiest Italian women alive to be surrounded by such beautiful, sexy men. :smokin::hat1:
     
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  19. newbatgirl

    newbatgirl Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! Whoever thought that crotch lift was a good idea may be smoking something. Tanith's reaction to it was hilarious but not as funny as my husband's:

    "Ummm...that's legal?"
     
  20. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

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    But my point was - in the case of F/S their improvement was immediate and sustained. The looked and skated better from their first season with K/C - and their marks reflected it. They started moving up.

    This is now C/L 2nd season with these coaches and all they've done is lose ranking. They need better coaches - and they need them fast.
     
  21. topaz

    topaz Well-Known Member

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    I don't think they need to change anything. They have good programs, they are not consistent with their skating, period. I loved the music they used for the FD, but I'm a fan of the singer, Melanie Gardot. The music sets them apart from the other "safe" and "classic" approaches from the other teams. The FD is intense.

    And the rotational lift is a pretty lift to me. Anna's toe point is great. The lift is similar to Dubreil/Lauzon's rotational lift.

    I don't see an issue with their coaches. Anna needs to work on her technique and skating. Its obvious Luca is stronger skater. And a new coach is not necessarily the answer. Doesn't seem to be answer for Mao Asada.
     
  22. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

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    Mao had no real coach until just before the season started. She was going to different people for help with different things - spins, steps, jumps etc - with no one in overall control. We can all see how that worked out. :(

    Having the right coach is essential.
     
  23. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the others. They need to improve their technical skating, especialy her, if they are going to continue. Their programs are ok and mostly entertaining, but they are technically being surpassed by all the younger teams.
     
  24. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Their SD is awful? :huh:

    It's got a ballroom feel, they remain in closed holds most of the time, it is light and brings back a memory of a bygone era - in a good way. It almost made me forget how CoP has ruined ice dance.

    As for the FD, however... :wall:

    Last season, their FD was empty but looked sophisticated and mature and was probably their first FD not to look "juniorish."

    This season, their FD is just empty and that's it. And the elevator music makes it even worse.

    What were their coaches thinking?

    As for the coach change, I am not sure how much of a problem the coaching team is and how much of a problem is them reaching their capabilities...

    I'd give them one more season.
     
  25. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    I agree completely. I find their SD absolutely charming. It's one of my favorites thus far.
     
  26. akkto

    akkto New Member

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    I see that I´m in minority but I think their FD is great. It´s skated to beautiful music and it does look mature, not like their SD, which is OK but can end up looking cheesy by March.

    The changes in choreography they made spoiled it a little though. During the transition of musics in the free dance, they had a very cute part where their contact was so much more evident than at any other part of the program. Now they took it out and substituted it for the aborted lift.
    And the final at Nebelhorn was soo sexy. Loved it! Now it´s just blah

    But I have to agree with those who see psichological issues in them. That´s true. Italian skaters might be very good but definetly they are not meant to do well under pressure. Ask Carolina, Maurizio or Fede and Massi...
    So I suggest them to have a few sessions with a good psychologist in Lyon and go on. Their coaches are good. Just compare their improvement in the way they hande their edges. But honestly, footwork is still too simple. But that´s Roman´s task. I don´t know where is his head. Doesnt he see the problems these guys always have with levels in step sequences and the small bonus the get on them most of times??
     
  27. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    Which are limited, or at least hers are (imo). I just don't think she is that talented or has much natual athletic ability. IOW, I think she's limited technically in what she can do, and if she hasn't got it by now, she probably never will. Maybe I'll be proven wrong though, we'll see.
     
  28. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    The problem is also that the junior teams are very very talented. And They are not that talented. She is light and beautiful, he is strong. But something doesn't work with them, especially him. His skating is not that good, he can't express the music (except their beautiful 2007 FD). JMHO ;)
     
  29. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    akkto - Yes, if they don't work with a sport psychologist yet, they definitely should.