Decisions of the ISU Council announced in their latest communications 1671

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Visaliakid, Apr 20, 2011.

  1. Visaliakid

    Visaliakid Well-Known Member

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    ISU Membership Singapore Ice Skating Association (SISA)

    Olympic Winter Games (OWG) 2014 – Sochi – inclusion of Figure Skating Team event

    ICE - International Cup of Skating Excellence (Invitational Series event in Figure Skating

    Social media – video production

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  2. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    "ICE" - Did "Chief Creative Officer" Scott Hamilton come up with this one? Har-dee-har-har. More important than the cutesy acronym: So we're back to having ISU-sanctioned Pro-Am cheesefests? We're going to get Alyssa and Sasha and Ryan and the Kerrs some international ISU 'World Champion" titles by hook or crook, doggone it!

    I dunno. Just hate the general cheapening of the sport...a Team Event in the Olympics and now this. It all seems calculated to make it easier for 'SOI Fave' skaters to claim ISU World Championship medals when it's almost impossible for them to earn the Real Thing (true ISU Worlds, which will take place next week in Moscow). [I don't count Davis/White in this group, as they have a genuine chance of winning The Real Thing next week!]

    If the eligible 'SOI Faves' win fair-and-square in Moscow next week, then all the power and honor to them! I wouldn't mind that at all. I just don't like the blurring of 'World' titles that may result from all of this. Winning Worlds should count more than winning 'ICE' or being on a winning 'World Team.' The various titles should be marketed correctly when a skater is introduced at a show, for example....the winner of 'ICE' should not be announced as "...and the reigning World Champion is..."
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2011
  3. Garden Kitty

    Garden Kitty Tranquillo

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    I'd love to see a real pro am event again, and I hope Scott is able to arrange it. There are a lot of retired competitive skaters I'd love to see in "competition" again.
    PDilemma and (deleted member) like this.
  4. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

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    Is this a Plushenko consolation prize?
  5. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    BINGO! I thought about that one, too, although Creative Officer Scott H. probably did not have that one in mind.
  6. IceIceBaby

    IceIceBaby New Member

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    They couldn't compete in ICE because they aren't world medalists.
    I like the idea of ICE so far, I don't think anyone would confuse it with the World Championships. Maybe we will see Lambiel competing there next season.:encore: I just hope the judging won't bee too cheesy.:rolleyes:
  7. skatemommy

    skatemommy Well-Known Member

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    Team Event at the Olympics? Kinda sounds like a high school competition :)
  8. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    The more skating on TV the better. Lambiel, Joannie Rochette, Jeff Buttle - there are lots of skaters I'd love to see skating in ICE. I just wish it wasn't limited to medalists - I would have loved to have seen Shawn Sawyer do something like this. Good for Scott - I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with this.
    PDilemma and (deleted member) like this.
  9. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    My bad - apologies. I thought ICE would include medalists in past ISU int'ls, such as Grand Prix Finals or Euros/Four Cs. Well, plenty of SOI faves who didn't quite win Worlds would still be in it, e.g., Sasha & Joannie.

    I'm not in the "the more skating on TV the merrier" camp, sorry. I prefer Quality (Worlds, Natls, Euros, G-P series) to Quantity (Disson pop concerts or Rock n' Roll Cheesefest Pro-Am Ch'ps).

    Whatever, I fear that it may be cheesy and diminish the importance of THE World Championships, especially among ordinary TV viewers who don't know the difference. Just saying.
  10. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    Where does it say that the event will be called anything similar to "world championships"? And how dumb do you think viewers are? The broadcasts (when there are broadcasts) usually make the nature of any given competition very clear to viewers who can hear or read captions. :rolleyes:
  11. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad that we will have more skating competitions available
    We can argue the details later.

    Frau Muller, no one will force you to watch, if they "offend" you.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2011
    Cheylana and (deleted member) like this.
  12. minignome

    minignome New Member

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    If the participants have to be medalists in the past 10 years, I think the cheese factor will be fairly low -- this won't be Dorthy Hamil vs. Yuna. Whether you will get Olympic eligible skaters competing given their schedules is iffy, but, if nothing else, this will give some of the recent "retired but not official" skaters a chance to compete again without committing to a full season.
  13. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    Anyone else think this was done to show off SOI skaters like Evan?

    There are a few I'd love to see compete again-
  14. manleywoman

    manleywoman podcast mistress

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    I applaud Scott for providing one of the few places where skaters can make a living.

    Having said that, It doesn't hurt his coffers either.
  15. mysticchic

    mysticchic Well-Known Member

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    Just FYI could open the door for the Kween to skate!
  16. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    I don't see anything here that suggests the winners of the ICE events will be called world champions.

    I think you've got it. My guess is also it will be mostly for pro and post-eligible competition skaters. If it had been held this year, for example, we probably would have seen Lysacek and Weir at this event. I am kind of disappointed about the 10 year cut-off for medalists, though. I'd like to see some competitions come along that might motivate Kulik to train his jumps back up. Prettiest triple axel ever and I miss it.

    From the announcement, it sounds like ISU free skate rules will be used for one portion of it, but the details about the rest are still TBD.

    I agree with you about the team event part. At least this has been reduced from the singles-heavy format of recent team events. I wonder though, how many countries had Olympic entries in all 4 disciplines?

    I still think it would be best if this event was held last, like the swimming & track relays. I think the ISU has made way too many bad decisions already looking only to gymnastics for ideas.
  17. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    The pool should be pretty small if it's just World/Oly medalists from the past 10 years. That's too limiting, I think. It would exclude skaters like Ilia Kulik and Surya Bonaly who seem to be in pretty good shape. Even someone like Yagudin would only have one season where he'd still be eligible.
  18. JerseySlore

    JerseySlore Active Member

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    I'm digging the pro-am competition idea.
  19. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    If it gets skaters like Lambiel, Arakawa, Buttle, Weir, Cohen, Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze, Annissina & Peizerat, Delobel & Schoenfelder, etc, back in competition, I'm all for it.

    I do HATE the fact that it's associated in any way with Scott Hamilton, which means high quality international skaters will probably get passed over for lower quality NA skaters. :blah:
  20. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    He is getting reinstated. They already said it would likely be in June. Why is it so hard for people to get through their thick skulls that he was not banned for life? :wall:

    Exactly...10 years is crazy. I mean, Kulik still has a 3A ffs. Are they seriously going to stop him from competing in this thing? His skating is probably better than half the current men! (lol, maybe this IS the problem!).

    Basically if it's Olympic medallists within 10 years, after next year we're talking Torino and Vancouver only. World medallists...you're not getting much variety. Variety IS needed in something like that.
  21. JerseySlore

    JerseySlore Active Member

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    Yes, 10 years clause is too limiting. Fortunately, even if enforced, it doesn't exclude Suguri so that's something. :lol:
  22. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    OMG, I just realized, this is really the "Fumie Suguri Retirement Initiative". :lol:

    She can finally retire from amateur competition but still be able compete for ten more years!
  23. Louis

    Louis Tinami 2012

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    I agree that, off the cuff, it seems too limiting to restrict it to medalists in the past 10 years.

    Maybe this pro competition could have divisions, based on retirement year from eligible skating? Heck, look at all of the excitement Midori Ito's apparent return to adult skating has caused. Why not cash in on that publicity and help share the thrill with more fans by having a division for skaters who retired pre-2000? I'd watch a Kristi-Midori rematch. I'm sure Nicole Bobek would jump at the chance to skate (and be great for ratings), and someone like Caryn Kadavy (24 years after her world medal!) is still unbelievably good shape and a great story. This is a skating competition I'd watch.
  24. 4rkidz

    4rkidz GPF Barcelona here I come

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    me too :D
  25. Visaliakid

    Visaliakid Well-Known Member

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    A list of women eligible based on those rules listed in the ISU Communications:

    Joannie Rochette CAN
    Laura Lepisto FIN
    Carolina Kostner ITA
    Fumie Suguri JPN
    Shizuka Arakawa JPN
    Mao Asada JPN
    Miki Ando JPN
    Yu-Na Kim KOR
    Irina Slutskaya RUS
    Elena Sokolova RUS
    Sarah Hughes USA
    Michelle Kwan USA
    Sasha Cohen USA
    Kimmie Meissner USA

    A list of eligible men:

    Jeffrey Buttle CAN
    Patrick Chan CAN
    Brian Joubert FRA
    Stefan Lindemann GER
    Takeshi Honda JPN
    Daisuke Takahashi JPN
    Alexei Yagudin RUS
    Evgeni Plushenko RUS
    Stephane Lambiel SUI
    Timothy Goebel USA
    Evan Lysacek USA
    Johnny Weir USA

    Eligible Pairs:

    Jamie Sale / David Pelletier CAN
    Jessica Dube / Bryce Davison CAN
    Xue Shen / Hongbo Zhao CHN
    Qing Pang / Jian Tong CHN
    Dan Zhang / Hao Zhang CHN
    Aliona Savchenko / Robin Szolkowy GER
    Elena Berezhnaya / Anton Sikharulidze RUS
    Tatiana Totmianina / Maxim Marinin RUS
    Maria Petrova / Alexei Tikhonov RUS
    Yuko Kavaguti / Alexander Smirnov RUS
    Kyoko Ina / John Zimmerman USA

    Eligible Ice Dancers:

    Albena Denkova / Maxim Staviski BUL
    Tessa Virtue / Scott Moir CAN
    Marie-France Dubreuil / Patrice Lauzon CAN
    Shae-Lynn Bourne / Victor Kraatz CAN
    Isabelle Delobel / Olivier Schoenfelder FRA
    Marina Anissina / Gwendal Peizerat FRA
    Kati Winkler / René Lohse GER
    Galit Chait / Sergei Sakhnovski ISR
    Federica Faiella / Massimo Scali ITA
    Barbara Fusar-Poli / Maurizio Margaglio ITA
    Oksana Domnina / Maxim Shabalin RUS
    Jana Khokhlova / Sergei Novitski RUS
    Tatiana Navka / Roman Kostomarov RUS
    Irina Lobacheva / Ilia Averbukh RUS
    Elena Grushina / Ruslan Goncharov UKR
    Meryl Davis / Charlie White USA
    Tanith Belbin / Benjamin Agosto USA

    So bottom line, according to the rules, but not including next weeks worlds;

    11 Pairs, 12 Men, 14 Ladies, and 17 Ice Dance Teams have won a world or olympic medal within 10 seasons.
  26. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

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    As for the ten years limit, it says they "should be" medalists of the past ten years. This doesn't sound like there can't be any exceptions. We'll see. I don't think they'd turn down someone like Ilia Kulik should he choose to apply for participation.
  27. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    If it's a pro-am mix, what's the scoring system going to be like?

    Is it just going to be the current scoring system(CoP)? That would difficult for any pre 2005 or so skater to adjust to. Although CoP requirements aren't as harsh as say, 2006, since there are less elements, I suspect it would be easier to attract skaters like Lambiel and Weir if they don't have to weigh down their programs worrying about levels and stuff.

    It'll be interesting if some separate, simplified system gets introduced for this event that eventually expands to all skating. Something that falls somewhere in between 6.0 and current the CoP.

    Or am I just being naive and it'll just be like the "Ten!!!!!!!" fests that were the World Pro's in the 90's. :shuffle:
  28. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    What????? No Ilia and Yagudin eligible only one year???? What´s this????? :eek:
    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!:angryfire
  29. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    What great publicity it would be for the show - Plushenko and Yagudin going head to head again for the first time in years! (And I'm sure neither of them would object to renewing some of their rivalry :lol:)

    But IMAGINE what a competition it would be with Yagudin, Plushenko AND Kulik...maybe that's what they're afraid of? That those three would show everyone up? :lol::lol::lol:
  30. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    Nobody would watch real Worlds anymore. :lol::rofl:
  31. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    If it's an ISU competition, then the ISU would set the rules and I can't see them promoting anything other than COP. I'm sure the ISU would rather die a painful death than bring out 6.0 again, even for this pro-am.
  32. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    In theory, though, in the future once everyone is fully trained in skills needed to earn higher levels, a skater retired for 10 years might still be able to defeat a recent medalist who earned that medal on the strength of jump content. Depends what the rules are and how fit each of them is at 1 or 10 years after their medal(s).
  33. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to see them open it up to medalists (maybe even top 10? or 5?) of any ISU championship (4CC, Euros, GPF). The list is just way too small. Not all of them are going to want to do it.

    Plus it leaves out a lot of my favorites... but I doubt it will be shown on any TV channel I get anyway. So it's moot.
  34. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    I have missed pro-am events and hope to see some old favourites competing in them!
  35. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    Well, like Yagudin, after next year Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze and Annissina & Peizerat will also be outside the 10 year limit.

    I cannot recall the last time Kulik landed a 3A, but I know it's been years since the last time I saw or read about him landing one. It's even been years since I saw him do a program with an early 2A in a place where he could do a 3A if the rink was big enough. I do recall seeing 3F and 3Z in his most recent numbers, though, which probably has him ahead of Yagudin. We've also seen him do 3S in recent years, but I can't recall the last 3 loop, either.

    Like others, I hope this is not just a forum for showing off SOI skaters, but that they make a real effort to attract the best available. I kind of like that they call for one event each in Asia, NA, and Europe. It kind of mitigates against a too heavily NA orientation. If they hope to sell the TV right to these events in other countries, then I think that pretty much guarantees it won't just be the casts of the US and Canadian SOI tours competing.

    I think you've hit on it!! What skating really needs is a seniors tour, like golf and tennis. Seriously, though, I kind of like the idea of a second event for people whose last medals were longer ago.

    It sounded from the announcement like there will be some non-ISU content/scoring for the short programs. Maybe if this works, the ISU will let them make changes for the free skate portions as well. The ISU rulebook used to also include an "interpretive program" so maybe they can resurrect that. COP doesn't address how to score the interpretive program and, as I recall, even under 6.0 the judges were totally confused about how to rank them.

    I am kind of sorry it leaves out the Kerrs. At least Faella-S got in under the wire.
    I wonder what size fields they are planning for these events. They are clearly described as made-for-TV events, so it could be as few as 4-5 entrants per discipline. I wonder if they intend to feature the same skaters in all 3 or if the participants will change from place to place.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2011
  36. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    At my last count, Kulik is still doing in shows 3T, 3Lz, 3F and 3S. He took his 3A out of his show programs because he was having trouble with his consistency but the last time I can remember seeing him do one is 2009's Song for the King in Sth Korea. He is working on it in practice and apparently intends to put it back in his show programs shortly.

    Regardless, he is still far and away a better skater than half the current circuit and always will be. The very fact that he still has so many triples at his age should be enough. His jump technique is just about flawless, and he's developed into an amazing artist.
  37. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes: In the announcement it was mentioned that the events will be held in three different geographical locations (in principle one in Asia, one in Europe and one in NA). Because of that I really doubt that "higher quality" international skaters will get passed by "lower quality" NA skaters. Besides all the competitors have to be World or Olympic medalists, so lower quality does not apply to anyone.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2011
  38. Michael O'C

    Michael O'C Member

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    There could be some wriggle room there. If the rule said "shall be" that would certainly mean that there was no room for discretion but should might not be as tight.
  39. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady Well-Known Member

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    Considering that two of the Olympic Gold Medalists in 2010 were from North America, I would say that the North Americans can hold there own in that department, at the moment.
  40. skatingfan26

    skatingfan26 New Member

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    The Japanese (federation, TV stations, skaters) might also love the idea of a Pro-Am competition. Takahashi and Ando will retire sooner or later. Also Yuna and the South Korean TV stations etc. might also like the idea. They will definitely raise the bar.

    A lot of skaters are still interested in competing, but don't want to commit to the lifestyle of an eligible skater anymore. I think they'd love to do it. It's a great way to keep them in competitions.