Davis & White #18: I Could've Danced All 1001 Nights

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by TanithandBenFan, Oct 18, 2013.

  1. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    I loved D&W's FD (haven't seen the SD yet) at SA. This is only the start of the season. I hope it develops into a great program, I hope they skate great, and I hope they win the OGM in Sochi.
     
  2. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    So would Charlie wear yellow pants? They are in this season...
     
  3. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't going to comment on this, because obviously I'm a D/W and some will write this off as just bias, but I feel the choreography of Scheherazade is very different from what they've done. It's more complex, there is more variation. When you look at POTO, Prince Igor, and even ND, you can see where the criticism on them being a fast powerful team, and that's all, might come from. In this piece you have light forthy parts, like in Giselle, you have smooth elegant parts, like in DF, you have power, you've seen in the dramatic pieces before this, and their edges and quality of skating has improved by leaps and bounds. They're practically floating in some places. The step sequences also look a lot more different.

    It's the Olympics, I expected them to come back to this genre, but they really stepped it up. I can see everything they've done since Vancouver adding up. It's the complete package and it takes you through a story. It even distracts from the formulaic required elements.

    The SD is the SD. It's beautifully skated, I like the song, but it's not a master piece. I think those will be few and far between. The SD is half compulsory dance and that has it's limitations. With that said I really enjoyed watching Chock/Bates and the Shibs. I think the Shibs have the best transition into the finnstep so far. It just starts without a change in the music or tons of preparation and I like how upbeat the music is the entire time for Chock/Bates. It will be a nice break from all the slow.

    I think you have to appreciate programs for what they are within context and I saw a lot of good programs out there...more so than train wrecks, so I'm going to enjoy watching this season in spite of the finnstep. We new about the finnstep a long time ago, it's also an Olympic season, so we knew there wouldn't be a ton of risk. I'm not going to pretend to be shocked. This isn't my first rodeo :p.
     
  4. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

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    Does anyone else think they would benefit from just slowing down a little ?. Especially on the lifts.
     
  5. literaryfreak

    literaryfreak Well-Known Member

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    There's a time limit on lifts, they can't slow down. If anything, D/W's lifts this year are quite statuesque and calm compared to what I associate them with - those insane multi position lifts, like in POTO.
     
  6. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

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    But sometimes they look a little awkward. But the system is :mad:
     
  7. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    Judges like speed. And like literaryfreak said, the lifts are timed.
     
  8. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

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    It's definitely comparing apples and oranges. A team couldn't win today if they skated the way the skated in the past, so even if it's your preference you certainly can't judge any of the current teams by it.

    Also, not everyone feels that way. I absolutely hated the old style. When I was younger I completely skipped over and disregarded ice dance because it was a joke to me. As a young dancer you'd think I'd gravitate to it more, like I do now, but I didn't. It was unathletic, it was all show and no substance to me. I do wish they would loosen up on some of the requirements for more creativity, but otherwise I prefer it.

    For example, the SD having both a compulsory sequence and a step sequence, plus twizzles and a lift, leaves almost no room for anything else. I'd also like to see more step sequence options for the FD. It would make judging harder, but it would be nice if a team could do a midline and circular, or a diagonal and circular non touching etc. And if timing wasn't so restrictive in lifts...oh and if they'd stop restricting lift positions too. Yes, some lifts are risky, but as long as pairs exists that isn't really a valid argument to me.
     
  9. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    After SLC they got feedback they should try and be faster, so at least the judges don't agree with you on this.

    Besides, I think they've already slowed down - and it's a good thing. They're not rushing and running through their programs anymore, like they did in the past. Which is also why I am totally :eek: when I STILL see people (VM fans mostly) using this same old criticism this year.
    I've even seen the "lack of control" argument again. I mean, really? They're so much IN control right now I don't think it's even possible to have more of it.

    I mean, I get DW might not be your cup of tea, but seing these arguments today makes me :rolleyes:

    On another note, I've rewatched the SD a couple of times already and I must say the dress is really growing on me. I love it, all of it actually. It moves beautifully, the back is stunning, but the front is pretty as well. The color is to die for :swoon:
     
  10. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

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    EVERYTHING. I agree with everything you just said. :encore:
     
  11. brina

    brina Well-Known Member

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    Haters gonna hate... Meryl and Charlie are the best in the world, and apparently the judges see this as well. :cool:
     
  12. Kaffeine

    Kaffeine Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure what the panic is all about. It is early in the season still.

    Both teams programs are not going to remain static but change and grow as the season progresses. Neither team is counting the other one out. I KNOW Meryl and Charlie aren't brushing VM off; they train with them every day so they know their programs are going to change and improve.

    As much we would love DW to be recognized by other team's fans, it isn't going to happen. It's like that with every sport. Fans of a rival team will tear another team apart with misinformation, half-truths and/or outright lies.

    What matters (IMO) is that DW addresses what the judges want AND that they're loving what they do. And it looks like they are doing both in spades.

    For the program themselves, just some thoughts:

    I would like to see more interesting choreography in the SD. It's improved a great deal of SLC but I still think it needs more, particularly in the beginning section.

    For the FD: The section leading up to the final step sequence, the part where the climax begins to build--I feel (JMO) that it needs refinement. Also, the exit out of the upside down lift is still a bit cumbersome and may explain why they got a level 3 on it.

    Other than that, I am very excited about both programs. They are really showcasing a lesson they picked up from each season after Vancouver : intricacy of choreography, different moods/connection depending on the section of music, and refinement of character development and technical skill. This is not the same team from Vancouver.
     
  13. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    I think V/M have a much better short dance than D/W (and the music is less grating on the ears) but D/W have the better FD (and it doesn't put me to sleep, either.) I actually don't think either team's SD/FD are the best of their careers, as Marina claims.
     
  14. Whitneyskates

    Whitneyskates Well-Known Member

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    So true.

    I know we used to say that it's not all V/M fans, but I think the V/M threads have been hijacked by the crazies. I've put a lot of people on ignore from that thread, not because I don't believe anyone should never criticize D/W, but because I can't with the ridiculous paranoia and claims that D/W success was bought for them, or childish insults that are hurled at D/W, and you know what? There's only about one or two posts per page that I can actually read, everything else is blocked.

    Only in the world of V/M fandom can a team be two time world champions, and Olympic champions, and still be "disrespected". I used to wish our threads filled up as fast as the V/M threads, but seeing as 90% of the content is a conversation about their careers are apparently over, I am fine with our pace.

    I just can't get over the almost daily claims that D/W's success is only due to the USFSA. What world do these people live in? the USFSA doesn't care about D/W, it's all about the ladies for them.
     
  15. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

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    I don't get it either. I think they look so good for the first competition of the season. Many teams won't look that good at the end of the season. Perhaps people have worlds in mind at the start of the season and they forget what the beginning of the season looks like?

    I don't care about mean V/M fans I just wish they wouldn't bring it here or that it didn't get brought up so much. I don't go in their threads. I don't mind talking about V/M. I like their skating, and they're D/W only real competitors, but I wish we would stop talking about their fans and every crazy thing they say.
     
  16. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure he would be ok with "maize" pants and a blue shirt if Meryl agrees to skate to The Victors. :lol:
     
  17. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

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  18. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    The hysteria is pretty... hysterical, with no basis in reality, if you take a look at history.

    In 2010-2012, one could say that "the fix was in" for V/M. D/W would win all the smaller competitions - a consolation prize, and V/M would rise up at just the right time to get the important ones (Worlds, Olys.) They lost 2011 Worlds because there was no legitimate way to fix a win for an out of shape, injured, barely practiced team. D/W's 2012-2013 season was a turning point towards more consistent judging, but I am not convinced "the fix" is over for V/M. The trend seems to be, V/M get the important, even year titles, and D/W get the less important or odd year titles. If 2014 is any different for D/W, I'll be shocked. It's funny how a team is supposedly being held down - when that team already has 1 OGM and 2 world titles. Yeah, they've really been held down.

    I agree with you but there's no place to have a level-headed debate in there.
     
  19. literaryfreak

    literaryfreak Well-Known Member

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  20. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

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    The argument that there's "a fix" is exactly what many of us object to in the V/M thread. Let's not start that ourselves!
     
  21. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

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    LOL, yes…he tries.
     
  22. MarieJessup

    MarieJessup New Member

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    I like him, he's kind of a warm and fuzzy writer. I'd like to give him a hug ;)
     
  23. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    Agree. But as a long time skating fan, I do know that politiking has been around a long time and of course there is always "inside" talking that goes on, coaches are going to talk up their teams' strong points, etc. The IJS has helped a lot to make judging more fair (imo) but of course with the PCS there is still room to "rank" the skaters as with the old 6.0 system. If I had to believe anything was going on with V/M and D/W, I would believe the back and forth world titles were destined to keep the rivalry going strong for Sochi. One of the problems back in the day with ice dance was that there was little drama in regards to who would win. Occasionally a team would break through, my favorite example is Bourne/Kraatz going from 14 in the world to 6 the next year. That was amazing for the time. I loved B/K so it was no problem for me! And of course the incredible T&D, they were 5th (or maybe 4th, can't recall) in 1980 Worlds and then won it all the next year. Anyway, it was usually "wait your turn" in ice dance and with no required elements it was hard for the fans to see exactly what it was that made one team win over another. I think IJS has done wonders for ice dance and it may not be everyone's cup of tea but some of us love it.
     
  24. sequins

    sequins Active Member

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    Maybe so but claiming that D/W fans are above trashing V/M is both comical and hysterical.
     
  25. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    ^ I'm sorry but noone is trashing VM here. We don't even talk about them that much, while in the other thread they talk about Meryl and Charlie more often than they do about Tessa and Scott. And even if we say we don't like VM's programs or whatever, nobody, really NOBODY here denies they are great skaters with loads of talent and skill, they are just not our cup of tea. I for one also find them annoying but I do not trash them as skaters the way VM fans trash Meryl and Charlie.
     
  26. Whitneyskates

    Whitneyskates Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Oct 21, 2013
  27. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

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    Eleanor Rigby?
     
  28. Whitneyskates

    Whitneyskates Well-Known Member

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    ^^ That's what I was thinking. Their costumes were purple that year.
     
  29. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Well, the difference is that very few Meryl and Charlie fans think that they are really superior to Tessa and Scott as skaters (at least seemingly - there is no way of knowing what you all actually think), they prefer to think that both teams are equals and everything comes down to mistakes and/or programs, while many Tessa and Scott fans genuinely believe that they are superior to Meryl and Charlie, so there are more people pointing out reasons why they believe in that - some of them true, others not so true.
     
  30. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

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    Well, fast or not, I think with the speed both teams skate at, if you're not in control at any time you're going to fall all over the place, so I think even if D/W were faster before and maybe were sloppier (I say maybe because I have to admit with the cutting back of skating on TV and work I've not watched that closely to say it was one way or the other) they still had to be in control. If you're not, you'd lose you're center and then it gets ugly :p

    As far as the fixed judging is concerned, maybe it's already decided, maybe not. But this season isn't any different than last season or the one before that or before that and so on and Vancouver was or wasn't as pre-decided as this season is (same goes for every other season). It's ice dancing, it's a subjective sport and it always will be.