Davis & White #16: Magical Wizard Hair

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by circuscandy, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    (((Doris))) I know how you feel.
    Maofan7 and (deleted member) like this.
  2. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    "Miss Saigon" was my pick a while back. I just think they could do a great job as a character piece. I love the music. Looking forward to their choice for the SD, too. I know they will rock the Finnstep just as they did the Yankee Polka! Here we go, playing the waiting game once again. :)
  3. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    tapdancer, you seriously need to update your signature :p
  4. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

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    Charlie's tweet about retuning his violin makes me want to hear him play. Tanith and/or DJ need to go undercover with the camera.
  5. Nell411

    Nell411 Afterlife

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    Thanks for this. I had never seen it:D.
  6. TanithandBenFan

    TanithandBenFan U.S. Ice Dance Junkie

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    Rumors are flying that Skate America will be in Detroit! :cheer2: How amazing would it be for M&C to have all their family and friends at their first competition of the Olympic season!
  7. Cyn

    Cyn Well-Known Member

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    I haven't read past OnyxRose81's post, so I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet (I'll add to this post or make another one as I read further), but I would like to address the comments above.

    I can understand not wanting to bring the mental health issue into the fray when discussing this ridiculous animosity, but at the same time, any rational person who takes a good look at the comments being made would be hard-pressed not to label several of them (the comments, that is) as paranoid, histrionic, delusional, and in some cases, pathological -- all of which are terms used in mental health.

    I've about reached the end of my tether with regard to all of the crap that's being spewed over in "their" thread. Some of the lies being perpetrated would be laughable if it weren't for the facts that 1) those people *actually believe them,* and 2) they're spreading them in various locations on the Internet (ie., other skating boards, the ISU Facebook page, and that cesspool known as the "comments" sections under countless youtube videos. Now the latter of those, I couldn't give a rat's ass about, but the other two? Yeah, I take exception to those.

    However, it seems as though no matter what BS they spread here, there, and everywhere, any time a supporter of Meryl and Charlie speaks up to dispute or challenge those falsehoods, that person effectively gets shut down, with the reason being 1) to keep from fanning the flames, 2) to keep from further upsetting the V/M fans poor wittle feewings, or 3) there's no point in it, and 4) we should rise above that petty crap.

    Although I can see some validity in all of those, at the same time, by saying nothing, the only voices that are heard are those screaming about it. I'm not saying that we should resort to their M.O. of throwing temper tantrums, lying about something despite facts to the contrary being readily available, or living in an alternate universe. However, when those issues and tactics are being utilitzed to smear Meryl and Charlie on other skating-based sites, we should step in and diffuse that crap by using our best ally -- the truth.

    Anyways, back to continue reading this thread. Possibly more later :).
  8. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

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    They're saying things on the ISU facebook page? Sigh.
  9. Kaffeine

    Kaffeine Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, its only one very vocal fan criticizing D/W. I didn't see anything too nasty. Fans will be fans. Personally, as long as they're aren't saying extraordinarily derogatory, I say let them rattle on. Davis/White will continue to do their thing :)
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  10. Kaffeine

    Kaffeine Well-Known Member

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    I understand your frustration. But the way I see it--the results speak for themselves. The judges enjoy Davis/White and are rewarding them for their hard work, their clean programs, their strengths.

    Look, there has been all this talk about how difficult V/M's Carmen is, how everything is difficult, and innovative, and intricate, etc. Yeah, that's great. Did they perform it flawlessly and to the hilt this season? Not really.
    V/M can "talk" about wanting to push the envelope and the artistic boundaries, but make no mistake, they want gold too. They do care about what those judges think. I think they learned a lesson this season, that being there is no point in creating a program if you can't skate it to 100%.

    Davis and White planned and skated SMARTLY. They played up their strengths, worked on their weaknesses and made changes here and there along the way--nothing too disruptive but just minor tweaks. That's not being "safe", that's being smart. That's what a competitor does. At the end of the day, ice dancing is a sport. If ice dancing wants to be taken seriously, then the teams need to step up, realize that this is a sport (with an artistic blend) and skate not just necessarily harder but smarter.
  11. missysays

    missysays New Member

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    I respectfully and sincerely hope they don't do something like "Miss Saigon." Quite a few people have skated to it (granted in other disciplines) but still... For the Olympic season they really need all the help they can get with an interesting and original program with beautiful and creative choreography. (I hope they don't do something like Les Miz either!)

    I hope they don't go the conservative musical route again! As much as I love them, as well as they skated Phantom and Notre Dame, and as fierce as they are as competitors, they really need to leave no stone unturned to create fitting yet unique Olympic SD and FD. They don't always have the most original taste themselves. The programs Marina has conceived for them have always been the most captivating and categorically well received- Samson and Delilah FD, Indian OD, Giselle SD.

    Granted they didn't quite have the momentum in 2010 to compete for the gold the way they will in 2014 but I really believe they gave up any chance they had to gold in 2010 when they picked Phantom as a FD concept. No matter how well they would have skated the choreography there was no way that Phantom of the Opera was going to compare well against something like Mahler.

    You're right though- it will be fun to play the waiting and guessing game between now and the start of next season. I hope they have a good rest and celebrate with great vacations before getting back to the preparation.
  12. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    They were so great at ballet this season, that I'd love to see them go that route again next year. Maybe Coppelia or Sylvia...both have such fabulous music!

    That, or I'd like to see them tackle an emotional, classical piece (something similar to B/A's Chopin FD...maybe Mozart?).
  13. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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    I love their POTO program and so did the audiences in 2010. I think having music that builds in intensity and that the audience is familiar with and can get into is important. Of course adding good choreography and skating it beautifully helps. And in 2010 I think POTO delivered on all those counts. The team that really threw away any chance of OG was Tanith and Ben. They made very poor choices for their Olympic season both in music and costuming. Here's hoping that Meryl and Charlie choose wisely!!
  14. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

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  15. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    Admittedly I've not been a fan of D&W over the years :shuffle:, but I want to see someone skate to a big, challenging, dramatic piece of music at the Olympics (something along the lines of the "Memorial" music G&P used in 98) and they're probably the only ones currently on the world scene that wouldn't get eaten alive by such a piece of music.

    I was going to make the suggestion initially for V&M, but even Carmen seemed a bit too big for them in moments.
    Sandypaws04 and (deleted member) like this.
  16. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Cyn and Kaffeine for your well said comments above. I have reached the end of my rope, too, with the "cesspool" that the VM thread has become. And I was told by another poster that it is easy to take the high road when things are going well. Things have been going well for DW for quite a while now, and I believed that the results did speak for themselves so why engage the other ubers? But it's gone too far yet again and it's frustrating that this forum is one of their favorite platforms for saying anything and everything negative about DW due to their frustration over VM not beating them even ONCE this past season. That thread is an alternate universe where it's impossible for them to believe that VM can't be revered and loved by all and DW ubers are idiots who can't possible know anything about ice dance or even skating if we believe DW deserve their titles. And yes, maybe there are only one or two in that thread that are truly nasty but the overall theme is the greatness of VM and the venom towards DW is supported by the continuing comments on their supposed weaknesses and overall lesser quality than VM which is of course, their opinions not shared by all other fans and definitely not shared by the judges. There is very little mention of any of the other competitive ice dance teams, no, their target is DW and the irony is that the rivalry has been good for ice dance (not an opinion shared by all on this forum, some don't like either of them). Coming up with conspiracy theories because they can't imagine a world where VM are beaten by DW is ridiculous as well. There are VM ubers who like to think that they are only enjoying VM and their uber thread is a place to celebrate them but they are being drowned out by the (as Cyn put it) histronic, delusional and paranoid voices on there. And as we know, they don't stay there...they are spreading it in other areas. The reason I am speaking out now is with the Olympic season coming up, I only see it as getting much worse and I hate that idea.
    This is brilliant and so very true. Much as I loved DW back in 2010, I was okay with them getting the silver medal behind VM (and I don't believe it was because of Phantom, though) because they did still have weaknesses to address. But they have done so, and brilliantly. Every year they have improved and yes, they skate smartly and perhaps the best thing is the work ethic...if you train hard, you will get the results.

    Needless to say, I will continue to support DW in every way possible.

    And missysays, I understand your reluctance to see "Miss Saigon" or other musical types but one thing I love about DW...they have this ability to make even warhorses exciting. Although I do agree that something original would be thrilling...we all still revere "Eleanor Rigby", don't we? :)

    mia joy...thanks for reminding me about my sig!
  17. missysays

    missysays New Member

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    Hmmm. That's a really interesting point that you bring up about which team is able to skate to big complex pieces of music without it eating them alive. And how "Carmen seemed a bit too big for [V/M] in moments."

    I think it comes down to their skating styles- and i mean that literally. Tessa and Scott's blades glide softly and sinuously (all control) across the ice. Their body movements are solid and weighted while they blades are gentle. Meryl and Charlie, on the other hand, while they have a lightness in the way they move and distribute weight across the ice, really barrel into their edges with great verve and attack (abandon tempered with a light layer of control). Tracy Wilson commented once that it's almost like their blades have teeth.

    I think these differences really affect both teams' ability to effectively embody certain pieces of music.

    V/M and D/W have been pushing themselves against their normal styles. V/M with their Pink Floyd FD and their Carmen FD. D/W with the beginning of Samson and Delilah FD, parts of Eleanor Rigby. All with varying degrees of success. It'll be interesting to see if in the Olympic season both teams will continue to push themselves outside of their comfort zones and what they do best, play it safe with a style they know they can do well, or try and find a balance between the two.
  18. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

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    Love that first one, but the rest would have to be severely aletred in the skirts as both short and longer tutus just have too much fabric. I can't see doing all the intricate, difficult choreography that D/W do at such fast speeds contending with miles of tulle! But they are pretty! And I agree with wanting to see Charlie in that outfit on the right in the last photo. I think he would wear it well! Copellia sounds like a good choice but it is lightweight a bit. Reading that they need to pull something GRANDE for Olympic season. Copellia is sweet and cute and would suit them. Maybe a little too much like the visuals and sprightliness of Giselle's 1st act. How about Giselle's second act??? :)
  19. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    That's an interesting point. Also that nice gliding of Tessa & Scott's doesn't lend itself particularly well to the fast, joyous dances like the polka. It's true that they never liked the polka, but still, I was surprised at how long it took them to at least simulate happiness while dancing the polka this year, and they never did manage to do the joyful exuberance .

    Here's ice-dance.com's FD recap
    http://www.ice-dance.com/main/news/general-articles-announcements/1592-2013-worlds-fd-recap

    and their SD recap
    http://www.ice-dance.com/main/news/general-articles-announcements/1590-2013-worlds-sd-recap
  20. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

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    ~tapdancer~ :40beers:

    While I'm not a particular fan of V/M for personal reasons, I still LOVE watching their skating, but as someone who is a fan of D/W I don't feel comfortable in V/M threads. Perhaps I do discuss them too much here, but I really don't want to be around all that...especially as we get closer to the Olympics.
  21. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    :rockstar: ~tapdancer~
    great siggie line
  22. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

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    Now wouldn't that be awesome?:cheer2: When do they usually announce this?

    ~tapdancer~, Cyn-
    It is quite easy and convenient to hide behind a computer and insult skating technique/appearance/anything else that comes to their mind. I feel sorry for those who do this because that is all they have to look forward to in their pitiful world. :lol:
    Meryl and Charlie have accomplished more on and off the ice, in their young lives than these couch potato experts ever will in all their combined lifetimes put together. NO ONE can take that away from them. :)

    NBC has some skating coverage today. :cheer:
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  23. Kaffeine

    Kaffeine Well-Known Member

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    That first one reminds me of Sasha's Oly LP dress and considering what happened...I have my superstitions:lol:
  24. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

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    Are ice dancers now encouraged to use ballet? It used to be outright banned as it's not an inherent partner dance form.

    Having just tried on some ballet costumes for a showcase in ballroom, I agree--the first Sylvia dress (with the flat skirt) could work, but when you're skating close to a partner a tutu, especially the stiff "Russian" style is just going to get in the way and close body contact with your partner crunches it down. I discovered quickly that tulle, even long, doesn't move big, and in skating you need something that just FLIES.

    I'm just not into sticking ballet in ice dance (or really skating at all as in the other disciplines it's done to DEATH, and besides ballet is BALLET, it's about...well, it's about movements that you can achieve with ballet technique on a floor, it just seems like skaters copying ballet otherwise.) And I don't know about GRAND, unless the judges just reward 'deep' music, as much as they need something that just feels like THEM. Whatever they pick needs to speak to them, first and foremost. You can tell when someone/a couple genuinely loves what they're skating to. Grand or light or fun or whatever I hope they go for something that just makes them go "Yes!"
  25. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    U.S. TV reminder: NBC's Worlds recap is today, noon-2 pm Eastern.

    ETA: Their free dance is being shown just before/around 1 pm.
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  26. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

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    Really? You could say the very same thing about Latin rhythms, if not more, yet they are still apart of the CDs. When I learned to skate a lot people loved that I came from a Ballet background and could incorporate those movements. ALL dance on ice is an interpretation. Absolutely non of it is literal. The waltz perhaps being the closest. If a team can successfully convey a dance rythym...in an ice dance competition, they should go for it.

    While Ballet isn't inherently a partner dance. A pas de deux is a regular part of any show. Many folk dances aren't inherently partner based, yet we now welcome their inclusion in ice dance.

    As for is being over done...if you feel it is that is fine, but I don't.

    I'm not sure what all this hubbub over costumes is about. Costumes are always modified for whatever discipline interprets it. When ballets do operas, no one suggests they wear the original heavy opera costume. If D/W did a ballet there are many softer flexible materials she could use to mimic tulle. Or she could skip the tulle and go with a straight skirt and still keep a ballet bodice. It reminds me of a few of those obnoxious comments that said Meryl's Indian costume wasn't a good depiction of traditional dress because it was too short.

    I don't think a particular style should be automatically awarded over another, but it sounds to me as if some would like to see a certain style and think only M/C can handle it. It would speak to their abilities and make an impact. That isn't quite the same thing.
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  27. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    For me the ideal situation would be if both teams tried to do something outside of their comfort zones, finding a balance between that and safe being the second best option. I am not sure that it's going to happen, though - that is, both Meryl/Charlie and Tessa/Scott doing something new in the Olympic season. The second option is more possible. But I think I am going to be okay with something "safe" as well, as long as the music is beautiful, the choreo is good, and the dances are impactful enough to impress both the judges and the public, and to be remembered for years to come.
  28. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Were did you see flaws in their Worlds performance of 'Carmen'? Do you mean those level 3 step sequences? But Meryl and Charlie got the same. And other than that I can't think of any real flaws.

    I understand being smart, but, at the same time, if being smart means that skaters can't really do something new and experiment, then I don't like that kind of smart. For me stepping up means exactly pushing the boundaries and showing (in this case) to the skating world new ways how it can be done. And who else to do it if not the top skaters?
    euterpe and (deleted member) like this.
  29. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

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  30. Jiazumi

    Jiazumi Active Member

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    Thank you , but that was actually NHK ^^;
  31. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the correction. I didn't realize it was NHK.

    I like this recap of the season.
  32. Jiazumi

    Jiazumi Active Member

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    After listening to Mirai's interview in Japanese, i thought i heard her say something to the extent of, "Admire Meryl's stlye"... Not sure if thats translated correctly. But wow everyone seems to like Meryl's style these days ;) hehe

    Speaking of style, Does anyone have pictures of MC at the banquet?
  33. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

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    All those cute pictures makes me want to rewatch their SD. The YP was just made for them.
  34. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    As far as tech, here's how the two teams were judged. D&W won the spin and the steps. The teams tied on lifts and twizzles. The judges didn't like Tessa & Scott's first lift (the curved lift where Tessa ends up in a kind of odd spread legged position across Scott's legs) and totally loved the final rotational lift (perfect score of 5.5) where Tessa sits on Scott's shoulder, facing him. From the marks, I don't think you can sustain a claim that the judges disliked the creative bits of their program, since that was mostly the lifts. The judges' favorite lift that either team did was Tessa & Scott's short rotational lift. That lift was the most questionable one from a rules standpoint & traditional ice dance standpoint, being very gymnastic (something that used to be frowned upon in ice dance) and Tessa sits on Scott's shoulders, something that is explicitly against the rules some of the time, and always frowned upon. So I actually think they were rewarded for their creativity.

    They were marked lower for their steps (which were pretty standard, just as D&W's steps are pretty standard), which didn't have the clean sureness of their Mahler program, for example. And D&W were somewhat faster in the steps, too. D&W scored higher for both step sequences.

    Their least creative element (as their program is currently structured) was their spin, and they scored less than D&W in that element, not too surprisingly, since V&M's spin does not have a creative or difficult entry & D&W's does.


    [TABLE="width: 339"]
    [TR]
    [TD]STEPS
    [/TD]
    [TD]Type
    [/TD]
    [TD]score
    [/TD]
    [TD]Type
    [/TD]
    [TD]score
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]V&M
    [/TD]
    [TD]Circular
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.50
    [/TD]
    [TD]Diagonal
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.36
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]D&W
    [/TD]
    [TD]Circular
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.79
    [/TD]
    [TD]Diagonal
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.64
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]



    [TABLE="width: 403"]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]spin
    [/TD]
    [TD]Lifts
    [/TD]
    [TD]step
    [/TD]
    [TD]twizzles
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Total D&W
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6.36
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]22.64
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.50
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7.21
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Total V&M
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6.14
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]22.64
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]16.86
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7.21
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    The twizzles are an interesting case. The judges clearly noted that D&W's FD twizzles were not as good as their SD twizzles, which got a perfoct score:


    [TABLE="width: 467"]
    [TR]
    [TD]Twizzles
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]Score
    [/TD]
    [TD]GOE
    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]Score
    [/TD]
    [TD]GOE
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]D&W
    [/TD]
    [TD]SD
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7.50
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.50
    [/TD]
    [TD]FD
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7.21
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.21
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]V&M
    [/TD]
    [TD]SD
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5.57
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.57
    [/TD]
    [TD]FD
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7.21
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.21
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
  35. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    If you watched the RAIsport coverage of FD on youtube channel LaRiservaISUMondiali

    you might get as big a kick out of this comment as I do:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2auou58sUa0

    I hope Meryl & Charlie take them up on it, and come see them in the "Riserva Forum"

    The web address from youtube for them is

    http://lariserva.forumcommunity.net/
  36. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

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    Haha…yes, I did see that. I thought that was very cute. :)
  37. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, but I always look at the protocols myself, so I knew the numbers, and how the judges judged them. I also know that Meryl and Charlie got higher GOE for their step sequences, but to me it doesn't prove that there were real flaws in Tessa and Scott's FD performance - "flaw" indicates something more major in my mind. Meryl/Charlie's speed has always supposedly been better than Tessa and Scott's, so we can just as well say that Tessa and Scott are flawed in this area compared to Meryl and Charlie.
  38. iNap

    iNap Active Member

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    is your tasty soup not ready yet? you stir pot for some time now :D
  39. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    Both teams had skates that scored the 2nd & 3rd best of the season overall; clearly there was not a lot wrong with either performance. The only thing to do in such a case is take the protocols apart to see where they could have done better, and hope that they work on those areas for next season, something that of course, they will do.

    I wasn't only addressing your question lauravvv, but the general thought that that V&M were punished by the judges for being creative, and the marks do not tell that story, IMO.
  40. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

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    I agree. It's not just what the skaters do, but how they do them.