Davis & White #16: Magical Wizard Hair

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by circuscandy, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,728
    It will be a very sad day in US figure skating when Davis & White hang it up and retire. No only are they the greatest Ice Dancers in US history but they have been great role models and leaders.
  2. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2002
    Messages:
    9,884
    Absolutely true. I'm already missing them, just thinking about it.
  3. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,457
    IMO the notion that every move in ice dance needs to be original every year is really outdated, anyway, and the folks criticizing either team for keeping a successful move need to go back and study the not-really-new-anymore rulebook.

    The adoption of the current judging system was a real watershed moment for dance, and IMO the introduction of required elements should have made obsolete the notion that every step in a dance needed to be original every year. Do folks criticize pairs for doing the same jumps and spins from year to year or some of the same overhead lifts? Surely no one complains when a singles skater uses the same 3-3 combination or same fw into triple jump in both the SP and FS or in multiple years. So why should it be any different for ice dancers? I can see that sometimes a particular lift may look quite ballroom and not work so well in a salsa program or look tango-y and not work in a quick step program, but a lot of lifts would work just fine with different music. The same is true of spins and twizzles. As long as V/M's spin or D/W's lift looks right with the music, then what is wrong with using a good move again?

    Yes, one of the Program Components includes originality, but it is also there for pairs and singles. So really, according to the scoring system, originality is today no more valued in dance than any other discipline and is not valued much in any of them (as only one consideration among 8 or 9 in the Composition/Choreography mark). Besides, elements apart, there is still plenty of choreo left to be creative in.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2013
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  4. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2002
    Messages:
    9,884
    All true, and a good comment.

    Besides, if you can't repeat something, how can you have a "signature move". I certainly would have hated to only see Arakawa's stunning Ina Bauer or Michelle Kwain's wonderful Change of Edge Spiral for one season only.

    Sometimes :drama: I want seconds.
  5. Kaffeine

    Kaffeine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,307
    Hear hear! I loved D/W "Helicopter" rotational lift that has been a feature of their last two FDs. Visually stunning and timed wonderfully to the music. :kickass:
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  6. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,222
    If you haven't caught on already, it is the same handful of people repeating endlessly that D/W are repeating every thing. Just because they show up on Facebook, twitter, forums, blogs, Youtube etc. in different guises doesn't mean there are more of them. :blah: We know how much some people love to post just on FSU alone.:shuffle:
    You know when it is getting this bad and they have to write the same crap everywhere to make themselves feel better, it is definitely a good sign. :p

    Marina has taken the secrecy to another level this season. I'm just afraid that this season is going to pick up some crazy speed once it gets going and be over before we know it. I just want to enjoy it to the fullest. :watch:
  7. Kaffeine

    Kaffeine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,307
    I guess they think if they post enough times, ISU will see it and act all like "BE GONE Davis and White for thou has trampled on thy sacred ground that is V/M!"

    Sorry I just had a white chocolate macademia nut cheesecake after working/going to school for 10 hours and I'm just a *touch* hyper :scream:

    I am kinda surprised about the secrecy with regards to the music. I can understand the technical things like lifts, spins, etc being secretive..but the music? There aren't levels for music choices.

    On another note, I would like to create a music video with Davis/White clips set to Daft Punk's Lose Yourself to Dance. Some of you have done videos before..what software would you recommend?
  8. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2006
    Messages:
    5,083
    Great comments on here, guys! I absolutely hate that tired (and untrue) criticism from non-fans of DW that they have done the same program for years. As you said, mollymgr, we should just consider the source and keep moving on. I just have to wonder if they really aren't watching the programs...when I think of the many great moves they have done from the swoop lift and back camel spin in 2009, the flip over and stand on Charlie's bent leg going backwards, the helicopter lift and the jump spin (from Notre Dame), that beautiful facing spiral, just to mention a few. Add in their amazing speed and flow and unison and most of all the fact that their work ethic has reached legendary status, imo, and well, it's easy for me to see why they have fans who adore them. Its also easy for me to see why VM ubers are so critical of DW, just look at the rivalry record and you'll know that not only do they feel threatened but its going to be quite a fight for the gold whether they want to admit it or not. Its going to be an amazing Olympic event.

    I'm worried, too, mollymgr, that the season is going to go by too quickly. The last Olympics don't seem that long ago to me but then again its amazing how much Meryl and Charlie have improved since then and I can't wait to see what they have for us this season. I just hope they have a great time this season!
  9. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,476
    You guys have all said it so well. I'm not such a Davis and White uber that I can't appreciate Tessa's edges. V/M are wonderfully smooth, it's why Mahler came off so beautifully instead of falling flat (at least in my opinion). So I don't understand why people have such a hard time admitting that D/W have the smoothest most difficult spins I have ever seen...in ice dance or in pairs. Every year they make the twizzles more difficult. It's not just the jumps, but the holds and twists right before they enter them. No other team can manage it. They've cleaned up their edges, so they're not only fast, but they're clean. Meryl has freaking surgical precision, which allows them to respond to every note in the music they're skating to. We always hear about V/M musicality, but D/W have amazing musicality as well. I've never seen V/M do a waltz like they have. V/M have a heavier, jazzier feel to their steps and it's not bad. It's all good. It's variation. I guess we can type till their blue in the face and it won't change anyone's mind though.
  10. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,222
    It has been an awesome journey with so many memorable programs. I'm so excited about this season.:)
    USFS posted pictures from past Champs Camps.
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151584302326342.1073741834.209118026341&type=1
  11. CassAgain

    CassAgain Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    814
    I can't find Charlie in '07.
  12. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2006
    Messages:
    5,083
    I couldn't either! I thought "is he taking the picture?" :lol:
  13. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,222
    It is possible. :lol: They didn't have official shirts for that year either.:lol:
  14. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,648
    Exactly. V/M have come up with some original moves, which I admire them for. But there are no points awarded if the lift/spin/whatever has been done before, only for its difficulty. Originality would be impossible to judge. It's easy to police when comparing V/M-D/W, because everything they do is under a microscope, hashed out and compared to each other ad nauseum. What if there were actually points awarded for lifts/spins that are brand new every season? Let's talk about this realistically.

    What if a team claimed to be the first, they got points for it, and then it's discovered later that they weren't the first but some other lesser team had done it in a B competition? Then a team could have their placements adjusted post-competition if the move was believed to be original but wasn't really. Picture it - V/M's 2014 gold medal could be revoked in 2200 when someone finds an attic photo of Karl Schafer and Sonia Henie goofing off in practice, performing a move that was currently believed to be a V/M original. The originality that was the sole determining factor in vaulting V/M over D/W for the 2014 gold medal would then be in question and D/W would posthumously become Olympic champions.

    And when is the cut-off? Each season? Each career? How would the move's originality be proven? Would a youtube link of the team performing the move in practice have to be submitted along with the Planned Program Content sheet? Then the youtube link would have to be taken by an ISU Research Assistant, and painstakingly compared to every move in the Library of Skating Moves, with Dartfish, to make sure it has never been done before. The deadline for competitions would have to be doubly extended.

    It would be really interesting to expect teams to constantly be inventing moves for them to get enough points to win competitions. The skaters would have to have their own Mosely/Dorsey skating rinks, or practice in the middle of the night. Skating during normal freestyle sessions would become a thing of the past. If points were awarded for inventing moves, skaters would not only need to practice with bluetooth headsets but bluetooth googles so nobody could see what lift they are working on, lest they become the second one to do it and not get points for it. Careers would be on the line. The secrecy would be ruthless.

    Even in freeskating, extra points aren't awarded for original moves, like Courtney Hicks' amazing spin, it just gets the normal number of features and some oohs and ahhs from the audience. Is Courtney Hicks the greatest skater of all time because she came up with something new? Why not? She should be getting 50 extra points per performance! Not every skater can do that spin. Should she be the Olympic champion?

    People usually invent moves so that it will be named after them or they will be the first in the history books, not because they expect the move alone to leapfrog them over every other requirement and have it be rewarded a disproportionate number of points. Everyone can appreciate a new lift or spin from any dance team, not just V/M. But realistically and accurately, where and how would that be marked in the scores?

    (Ok, now V/M fans on a shall-remain-unnamed forum (not FSU), you may now commence parsing and paraphrasing my above post within 10 minutes of it being posted. It's rather hilarious to watch this happen. And.... Go!)
  15. Kaffeine

    Kaffeine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,307
    Hm, wonder which place you are referring to. ;) The one that either provides me with hours of entertainment or makes me :scream: at the conspiracy theories.

    I wish more people could appreciate both teams and what they have brought to the sport.
  16. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2002
    Messages:
    9,884
    NBC Sports has to be the most boneheaded organization ever. Well, they did recognize that Meryl and Charlie were US athletes to watch in Sochi, but they have their names as Charlie Davis! & Meryl White NK
    http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/figure-skating-athletes-watch

    This article has an absolutely amazing number of factual errors. You'd think it was something written for the Onion as a spoof of really bad sports reporting.
  17. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Messages:
    567
    ...I kept reading each athlete's blurb and it got worse and worse and worse. Everything is wrong. :rofl:
  18. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    9,268
    But, "they train in the same gym in Michigan as their rivals."

    The quality of writing (in addition to the poor grasp of facts) is just atrocious.
  19. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,776
    OMG, this blooper by NBC sports once again proves the point that Meryl and Charlie are the "Rodney Dangerfields" of skating.
  20. Kaffeine

    Kaffeine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,307
    That blooper is hysterical. Really dumb but hysterical. I'm sure Meryl and Charlie would get a kick out of it.:lol:
  21. Whitneyskates

    Whitneyskates New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,007
    I think my favorite may be Ashley's blurb; they call her Miss Consistent, then go on to talk about how she missed the team in 2010, and dropped in the rankings at worlds.

    Maybe we should just be happy they're getting any attention at all. I still have a bad feeling that, regardless if they win gold or not, the only thing that NBC will focus on will be wherever Ashley and Gracie place, and whatever Evan does.
  22. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,648
    Strange how her two nationals wins were not the opening sentence but buried near the end. The blurbs seem to be written by someone who is ESL.
  23. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,189
    It looks like someone went in and corrected most of the mistakes. That was embarrassingly bad.
  24. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,222
  25. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,457
    The ISU did have a rule specifically addressing and rewarding a new and innovative move, but it applied across all disciplines and I don't know if it is there anymore. I think they were hoping for a radically new spin position or jump takeoff (although with only 2 feet, I don't know if there are any more available to invent). IIRC the rule called for teh skaters using it first to get a couple bonus points for the program that season. I don't know if anyone ever got any points under this rule.
  26. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,187
    ^^^ Adam Rippon's 3Lz with both arms clasped overhead never received the bonus the first time he performed it in competition at 2009 TEB.

    Relevant quote from the Quebec Summer Championships recap article published today on IceNetwork:
  27. Kaffeine

    Kaffeine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,307
    Looking forward to it :) I hope they enjoy every moment of this season and attack each competition.
  28. TanithandBenFan

    TanithandBenFan U.S. Ice Dance Junkie

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    5,833
    Oh, that humble Marina. :lol: Hope she comes through! M&C did rather well with their choice of Notre Dame last season.
  29. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,476
    I know, but I guess she can brag...the few times V/M have taken more control if their music haven't been stellar IMO.
    Now if she could just get it right for the Shibs.
  30. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Messages:
    567
    Amen to that.

    I can't wait until September.
  31. literaryfreak

    literaryfreak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2008
    Messages:
    2,471
    I agree. As insane as she is (curtains and headphones :rofl:, no one ever leaks anything out of Canton anyway, why is that necessary?), Marina has a magic touch when she picks the music and does the choreography. It is odd how Marina's magic hasn't been working on the Shibs.
  32. rustyskater

    rustyskater Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    108
    Let's remember she worked the music and the dance for the Shibs and gave them a world medal on their first outing. That's a tough act to follow. Even for Marina.
  33. CassAgain

    CassAgain Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    814
    I dreamed last night that Meryl's costume for one of the (unspecified) programs was jeans, a black t-shirt and a beautifully tailored burgundy velvet coat. She looked amazing.
  34. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,728
    The Shibs needed to go to Igor after he left Canton. Look at how he improved Chock and Bates.
  35. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Messages:
    567
    I'm jealous of your dreams, because whenever I dream of them they're always wearing something weird and their programs even weirder.
  36. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,476
    Ummm, if you include that she's now changed partners to skate with Yu-na, you might have been dipping into my dreams. :shuffle:
  37. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    Messages:
    16,741
    You guys are having some crazy dreams! :lol:
  38. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,124
    They have had a set of great music choices throughout their entire senior career. Eleanor Rigby, Samson&Dalilah, Die Fledermaus, Notre Dame, Giselle, that Bollywood music. I cannot wait to see what could be that "best music of their career".
  39. Whitneyskates

    Whitneyskates New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,007
  40. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Messages:
    567
    Meryl is so unfair.

    Also I want a box of anything Kellogg's with them on it now please.