Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by circuscandy, Mar 15, 2013.
I don't see any on YT anymore. Here is another one.
I am not honey for you . Other than that - okay, I understood. But no, all of that was not really in response to "voila". It was something that I had forgotten to write earlier, and was still intending to write before I had read your "voila" .
Of the two, I do prefer Notre Dame emotionally and choreographically. I still enjoyed Die Fledermaus, but IMO it's much more of a straight shoot, so to speak, than Notre Dame. And even then I'd still like to see D/W perform more complex choreography. I think they're more than capable of it. I still miss the original Eleanor Rigby from time to time-the transitions (especially into the twizzles!), just all of it.
I can't wait to see what they come up with for the Olympic season, but I am sincerely hoping they get outside input. It did wonders for them in the Bollywood OD, and I'd like to see what another ice dance choreographer could come up with for them. Sure Marina knows them best, but it's good take on another perspective!
In some ways, I think the SD is more important than the FD--I hope they spend lots of time very early on getting the Finnstep Keypoints exactly right and getting the music right for it.
Next year, teams can do a circular, straight line, or diagonal not touching step in the SD. I'm hoping they go for the diagonal, just because it's a new option, and in any case, their not touching steps are real highlights for me.
I agree. I hope next season's SD is just as seamless as this season's.
Before I got to know that Shibutanis were doing 'Memoirs of Geisha' I was thinking that Meryl and Charlie could do something like that, or 'Miss Saigon', as someone else once mentioned. I would have loved to see them do an Eastern theme once again. I think it really suits Meryl. But now I don't know. I just hope that there will be surprises - in a good sense, of course .
I agree that is proves their growth and hopefully it will set them up for next year and people will view them as having arrived. I do think DF was more of a unique masterpiece though. It will be the gold standard of waltzes for a long time. If you feel that way it's upsetting that they didn't win that year, not so much that we/I didn't love Notre Dame, because that type of program is right up my alley and they did it so well.
I was interested. The choreographic choices of their main competition is relevant to me. Also it's slow, so I don't see the harm. No one's post is being buried in all the flurry of activity.
No WTT : for either D&W or V&M : I feel like the season has ended when I expected one more event.
(((Doris))) I know how you feel.
"Miss Saigon" was my pick a while back. I just think they could do a great job as a character piece. I love the music. Looking forward to their choice for the SD, too. I know they will rock the Finnstep just as they did the Yankee Polka! Here we go, playing the waiting game once again.
tapdancer, you seriously need to update your signature
Charlie's tweet about retuning his violin makes me want to hear him play. Tanith and/or DJ need to go undercover with the camera.
Thanks for this. I had never seen it.
Rumors are flying that Skate America will be in Detroit! How amazing would it be for M&C to have all their family and friends at their first competition of the Olympic season!
I haven't read past OnyxRose81's post, so I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet (I'll add to this post or make another one as I read further), but I would like to address the comments above.
I can understand not wanting to bring the mental health issue into the fray when discussing this ridiculous animosity, but at the same time, any rational person who takes a good look at the comments being made would be hard-pressed not to label several of them (the comments, that is) as paranoid, histrionic, delusional, and in some cases, pathological -- all of which are terms used in mental health.
I've about reached the end of my tether with regard to all of the crap that's being spewed over in "their" thread. Some of the lies being perpetrated would be laughable if it weren't for the facts that 1) those people *actually believe them,* and 2) they're spreading them in various locations on the Internet (ie., other skating boards, the ISU Facebook page, and that cesspool known as the "comments" sections under countless youtube videos. Now the latter of those, I couldn't give a rat's ass about, but the other two? Yeah, I take exception to those.
However, it seems as though no matter what BS they spread here, there, and everywhere, any time a supporter of Meryl and Charlie speaks up to dispute or challenge those falsehoods, that person effectively gets shut down, with the reason being 1) to keep from fanning the flames, 2) to keep from further upsetting the V/M fans poor wittle feewings, or 3) there's no point in it, and 4) we should rise above that petty crap.
Although I can see some validity in all of those, at the same time, by saying nothing, the only voices that are heard are those screaming about it. I'm not saying that we should resort to their M.O. of throwing temper tantrums, lying about something despite facts to the contrary being readily available, or living in an alternate universe. However, when those issues and tactics are being utilitzed to smear Meryl and Charlie on other skating-based sites, we should step in and diffuse that crap by using our best ally -- the truth.
Anyways, back to continue reading this thread. Possibly more later .
They're saying things on the ISU facebook page? Sigh.
Honestly, its only one very vocal fan criticizing D/W. I didn't see anything too nasty. Fans will be fans. Personally, as long as they're aren't saying extraordinarily derogatory, I say let them rattle on. Davis/White will continue to do their thing
I understand your frustration. But the way I see it--the results speak for themselves. The judges enjoy Davis/White and are rewarding them for their hard work, their clean programs, their strengths.
Look, there has been all this talk about how difficult V/M's Carmen is, how everything is difficult, and innovative, and intricate, etc. Yeah, that's great. Did they perform it flawlessly and to the hilt this season? Not really.
V/M can "talk" about wanting to push the envelope and the artistic boundaries, but make no mistake, they want gold too. They do care about what those judges think. I think they learned a lesson this season, that being there is no point in creating a program if you can't skate it to 100%.
Davis and White planned and skated SMARTLY. They played up their strengths, worked on their weaknesses and made changes here and there along the way--nothing too disruptive but just minor tweaks. That's not being "safe", that's being smart. That's what a competitor does. At the end of the day, ice dancing is a sport. If ice dancing wants to be taken seriously, then the teams need to step up, realize that this is a sport (with an artistic blend) and skate not just necessarily harder but smarter.
I respectfully and sincerely hope they don't do something like "Miss Saigon." Quite a few people have skated to it (granted in other disciplines) but still... For the Olympic season they really need all the help they can get with an interesting and original program with beautiful and creative choreography. (I hope they don't do something like Les Miz either!)
I hope they don't go the conservative musical route again! As much as I love them, as well as they skated Phantom and Notre Dame, and as fierce as they are as competitors, they really need to leave no stone unturned to create fitting yet unique Olympic SD and FD. They don't always have the most original taste themselves. The programs Marina has conceived for them have always been the most captivating and categorically well received- Samson and Delilah FD, Indian OD, Giselle SD.
Granted they didn't quite have the momentum in 2010 to compete for the gold the way they will in 2014 but I really believe they gave up any chance they had to gold in 2010 when they picked Phantom as a FD concept. No matter how well they would have skated the choreography there was no way that Phantom of the Opera was going to compare well against something like Mahler.
You're right though- it will be fun to play the waiting and guessing game between now and the start of next season. I hope they have a good rest and celebrate with great vacations before getting back to the preparation.
They were so great at ballet this season, that I'd love to see them go that route again next year. Maybe Coppelia or Sylvia...both have such fabulous music!
That, or I'd like to see them tackle an emotional, classical piece (something similar to B/A's Chopin FD...maybe Mozart?).
I love their POTO program and so did the audiences in 2010. I think having music that builds in intensity and that the audience is familiar with and can get into is important. Of course adding good choreography and skating it beautifully helps. And in 2010 I think POTO delivered on all those counts. The team that really threw away any chance of OG was Tanith and Ben. They made very poor choices for their Olympic season both in music and costuming. Here's hoping that Meryl and Charlie choose wisely!!
I'd kill to see Meryl in a costume modeled from Coppelia or Sylvia.
I don't know how Charlie would handle Sylvia but I'd kill for that, too:
Admittedly I've not been a fan of D&W over the years , but I want to see someone skate to a big, challenging, dramatic piece of music at the Olympics (something along the lines of the "Memorial" music G&P used in 98) and they're probably the only ones currently on the world scene that wouldn't get eaten alive by such a piece of music.
I was going to make the suggestion initially for V&M, but even Carmen seemed a bit too big for them in moments.
Thank you Cyn and Kaffeine for your well said comments above. I have reached the end of my rope, too, with the "cesspool" that the VM thread has become. And I was told by another poster that it is easy to take the high road when things are going well. Things have been going well for DW for quite a while now, and I believed that the results did speak for themselves so why engage the other ubers? But it's gone too far yet again and it's frustrating that this forum is one of their favorite platforms for saying anything and everything negative about DW due to their frustration over VM not beating them even ONCE this past season. That thread is an alternate universe where it's impossible for them to believe that VM can't be revered and loved by all and DW ubers are idiots who can't possible know anything about ice dance or even skating if we believe DW deserve their titles. And yes, maybe there are only one or two in that thread that are truly nasty but the overall theme is the greatness of VM and the venom towards DW is supported by the continuing comments on their supposed weaknesses and overall lesser quality than VM which is of course, their opinions not shared by all other fans and definitely not shared by the judges. There is very little mention of any of the other competitive ice dance teams, no, their target is DW and the irony is that the rivalry has been good for ice dance (not an opinion shared by all on this forum, some don't like either of them). Coming up with conspiracy theories because they can't imagine a world where VM are beaten by DW is ridiculous as well. There are VM ubers who like to think that they are only enjoying VM and their uber thread is a place to celebrate them but they are being drowned out by the (as Cyn put it) histronic, delusional and paranoid voices on there. And as we know, they don't stay there...they are spreading it in other areas. The reason I am speaking out now is with the Olympic season coming up, I only see it as getting much worse and I hate that idea.
This is brilliant and so very true. Much as I loved DW back in 2010, I was okay with them getting the silver medal behind VM (and I don't believe it was because of Phantom, though) because they did still have weaknesses to address. But they have done so, and brilliantly. Every year they have improved and yes, they skate smartly and perhaps the best thing is the work ethic...if you train hard, you will get the results.
Needless to say, I will continue to support DW in every way possible.
And missysays, I understand your reluctance to see "Miss Saigon" or other musical types but one thing I love about DW...they have this ability to make even warhorses exciting. Although I do agree that something original would be thrilling...we all still revere "Eleanor Rigby", don't we?
mia joy...thanks for reminding me about my sig!
Hmmm. That's a really interesting point that you bring up about which team is able to skate to big complex pieces of music without it eating them alive. And how "Carmen seemed a bit too big for [V/M] in moments."
I think it comes down to their skating styles- and i mean that literally. Tessa and Scott's blades glide softly and sinuously (all control) across the ice. Their body movements are solid and weighted while they blades are gentle. Meryl and Charlie, on the other hand, while they have a lightness in the way they move and distribute weight across the ice, really barrel into their edges with great verve and attack (abandon tempered with a light layer of control). Tracy Wilson commented once that it's almost like their blades have teeth.
I think these differences really affect both teams' ability to effectively embody certain pieces of music.
V/M and D/W have been pushing themselves against their normal styles. V/M with their Pink Floyd FD and their Carmen FD. D/W with the beginning of Samson and Delilah FD, parts of Eleanor Rigby. All with varying degrees of success. It'll be interesting to see if in the Olympic season both teams will continue to push themselves outside of their comfort zones and what they do best, play it safe with a style they know they can do well, or try and find a balance between the two.
Love that first one, but the rest would have to be severely aletred in the skirts as both short and longer tutus just have too much fabric. I can't see doing all the intricate, difficult choreography that D/W do at such fast speeds contending with miles of tulle! But they are pretty! And I agree with wanting to see Charlie in that outfit on the right in the last photo. I think he would wear it well! Copellia sounds like a good choice but it is lightweight a bit. Reading that they need to pull something GRANDE for Olympic season. Copellia is sweet and cute and would suit them. Maybe a little too much like the visuals and sprightliness of Giselle's 1st act. How about Giselle's second act???
That's an interesting point. Also that nice gliding of Tessa & Scott's doesn't lend itself particularly well to the fast, joyous dances like the polka. It's true that they never liked the polka, but still, I was surprised at how long it took them to at least simulate happiness while dancing the polka this year, and they never did manage to do the joyful exuberance .
Here's ice-dance.com's FD recap
and their SD recap
While I'm not a particular fan of V/M for personal reasons, I still LOVE watching their skating, but as someone who is a fan of D/W I don't feel comfortable in V/M threads. Perhaps I do discuss them too much here, but I really don't want to be around all that...especially as we get closer to the Olympics.
Separate names with a comma.