Davis & White #15: The Polka Connection

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by chipso1, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. Whitneyskates

    Whitneyskates New Member

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    Oh I was just making a joke about it, I hope that when we get to the next thread, the title will involve something about a second world title :D

    I've noticed the backhanded comments have gotten really bad since D/W have started beating a healthy V/M on a regular basis. I used to enjoy reading P.J's blogs, but her bias has gotten out of hand. She decalred Carmen a masterpiece before she had even seen it and did the same things with their 2010-2011 programs.

    I've noticed that she likes to ignore certain events in a competition. She declared Kevin Reynolds a contender because he won 4cc, completely ignoring the fac that better skaters had mistakes, and had they skated clean, he probably wouldn't have been on the podium. Same with Katelyn Osmond. She picked her to win 4cc, ignoring the fact that the golds she won this past season were thanks to mistakes from better skaters. And showing just how biased she really is. she said said she picked Katelyn based on three previous strong outings, yet D/W, who have much better outings than V/M this season, wasn't her pick.
  2. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

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  3. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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  4. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

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    It just makes all of them, the commentators who do this, seem like liars. They're all for yay the rivalry and yay it pushes V/M to be better...as long as they're not actual competition. If you believe deep down that V/M should win always, as long as they skate clean, then you don't actually respect D/W ability. It's all for show. It's that simple. No competitor, no matter how amazing, is unbeatable. It's unrealistic.

    There is this Canadian commentator, I don't know who she is or if she's the same person, but she keeps making the same comment every competition on the lifts. She gets down on M/C for not taking risks and not being new in their lifts and I'm just like WTF. Yes they reused a lift this year, but how you ignore the gorgeousness of that first lift is beyond me, nor is every lift position in the V/M program new either. It's so grating because it's an out and out lie. It's as if she said Meryl's dress was blue when it's not. The guy who was commenting with her stayed quiet on it. It's like she's run out of subjective things to criticize.
  5. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

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    I can't wait to see how much more wonderful fiction we're going to get over the next year. :lol: Should be fun! :rolleyes: Let us remember that Charlie's wizard hair protects them from this nonsense.

    However, if Tanith and Charlie aren't careful, Meryl is going to steal DJ into the night. And I wouldn't blame her.
  6. Whitneyskates

    Whitneyskates New Member

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    DJ definitely needs to be promoted to team D/W mascot:dog:
  7. lmarie086

    lmarie086 Well-Known Member

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    I move that DJ should feature in the next thread title...somehow.
  8. iNap

    iNap Active Member

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    PJ politik for V-M. DJ politik for D-W. All equal now :lol:
  9. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

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    I feel like there's a good Full House joke somewhere in all of this but I can't think of it.
  10. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    PJ Kwong is a long time Skate Canada sycophant and she gets worse every year. It is kind of her job to pimp Canadian skating to Canadian audiences, so you expect a certain amount of bias. I mean every broadcaster is a homer, (except Tara and Johnny Weir who didn't get the memo yet) but you do at least expect them to still be rational. Kwong plunges off the deep end so regularly she has become a total joke IMO.

    Unlike you, I don't agree about the choreo mark. I think V/M Carmen is surely very good in parts, but the program seems to kind of meander a bit I don't think uses the music as well as it could. I mean, we have seen a lot of Carmen's over the years, and I think we have seen it used better. IMO, NDdP is more complete and uses the music to better effect.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  11. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    oops-I meant to say 'choreography (in terms of transitions)'. imo, V&M, D&W, and P&B all have programs that are well constructed with a strong sense of purpose, a clear concept, etc.
  12. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    I'm not gonna discuss PJ's FD opinion again, as most of it has been said already, but hell, how can she say the teams have equally superb short dances? If she's so sure of Carmen's superiority over ND, she should at least try and be objective and admit D/W's SD kicks V/M's SD's ass this year.

    I can take people stating that Carmen is a more innovative or complex FD in terms of choreography, but I absolutely cannot take people stating their SDs are equally great. They are not.

    I am totally protective over Meryl and Charlie's SD this year, I fell for it the very first time I saw it and for me it's the best SD/OD they've had except the Indian one. Tessa and Scott's "waltz pretending to be polka" has just nothing on it.
  13. Whitneyskates

    Whitneyskates New Member

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    Charlie tweeted that they're doing a photoshoot for Kellogs today! Can't wait to see the photos!
  14. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  15. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

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    The new website looks great. I love the choice of pictures.
  16. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    I'm glad to see skaters in the USA getting some kind of corporate support again.

    http://internationalskatingacademy.com/about/facility/

    I like the above picture from the website.
  17. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

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    Here is one from today's shoot from their FB site. I'm not seeing any cereal in the vicinity.:lol:
  18. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    As a dance, I think it is the most successful since creation of the short dance concept. It is one of the very few that felt like a single, integrated dance rather than two or three sections run together. I have a feeling this is the effect the ISU was trying to achieve with the SD concept, since their judging guidance seems to stress the integration aspect (esp for the CD pattern).

    Maybe there is something to be said for choosing music from one work rather than splicing together unrelated pieces of music.
  19. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    For those who read the Lois Elfman/Byalikov articles on Ice Network, Elfman has added the following info:

    So it would be this clip, I guess.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv9M4E8eD8s
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  20. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

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    People have been giving her quite a lot of grief for his opinions. :lol:

    I completely agree, especially about the music. My favorite SDs of this season have been from a single source and choreographed very cohesively (for another example, Anna and Luca's). But Meryl and Charlie's should be held up as an example of what the SD can be if teams don't simply go for as many of the rhythms as possible by slapping a bunch of music together. Or using every song from the source. All of these medley short dances (which are basically 90% of them) drive me a little crazy.

    This has had me thinking about next year's Finnstep, which, musically, makes me nervous. I believe the rhythms are quickstep, foxtrot, and swing, though I'm only going from memory. The OD the step came from is just FANTASTIC. The potential for a memorable SD is totally there. I hope more teams learn from Giselle and that next year's SD is stronger across the board. I sort of feel like this year did produce more gems than previous years, and the clunkers really came with all of the country medleys.

    And I hope that Meryl and Charlie really dig into 50s music, because there was so much bubbly dance music that only older people listened to at the time, with big band gone out of fashion and cool jazz all the rage. It's so them, what with their ability to emote the happiest, most ballroomiest joy on the ice. They could take advantage of Charlie's awesome sense of humor and do something with an edge of satire. They had such an awesome and memorable OD in 2010; it would be great to see an awesome and memorable SD in 2014.
  21. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Watching the 4CC free dance again, I really noticed how perfectly Meryl & Charlie's leg lines match this year. I love how that program is growing. :swoon:
  22. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    OMG, to me 50's music was about the worse decade, apart from the disco era. I mean, it is the 50s that killed big band .

    I think of quickstep as being a dance from an earlier era, like the 1930s. When I heard the CD pattern tempo would be quick step, the dance I thought of was their flapper one. (You know, the one they never seemed to get thru without messing up somewhere.)
  23. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

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    Technically the 40s killed big band. ;) Well, the end of the war. And the music strike. Blame those darn beboppers! Although I could never blame Bird, Dizzy or Monk for anything. I'm still holding out for someone to choose Salt Peanuts for something one day but uh... maybe exhibition only. But the 50s gave us Brubeck and Chet Baker and oh sweet Chet Baker is made of honey. We also got early Miles Davis, Art Blakey and Sonny Rollins. And it led us right into the golden age of jazz, but that stuff ain't quickstep. :lol:

    I tried to find examples of the following songs on the internet but the internet didn't deliver for everything. Alas.

    I hesitate when dancers do things from the 30s because they tend to rehash I've Got Rhythm and Sing Sing Sing. I'd love more Django, but he doesn't really suit the Finnstep even if the rhythm is right. He's got too much of an edge. I'd kill for someone to pick something Sidney Bechet ('I've Found a New Baby', 'Muskrat Ramble', 'Copenhagen', 'Ain't Gonna Give Nobody None of My Jelly Roll', 'All of Me', for a slow moment).

    Actually, if they dug into the 20s that would be great, too. Then they could do the 20s theme again and Charlie could stay on his feet (or maybe they never want to see the 1920s again). :lol: 'Make Believe' (with some nice early wee Bing Crosby and the Rhythm Boys), 'Ain't Misbehavin', 'Oh, You Have No Idea!', 'Sweet and Lowdown', 'From Monday On' (which spoofs the change in music from ragtime to jazz--if a better recording exists anywhere), 'That's My Weakness Now' (which, if they use a version sung by a woman, features a boy with curly hair~), the early recordings of 'What'll I Do' (which is a waltz, unfortunately) and 'Bye Bye Blackbird' are more upbeat than later recordings. Or there's 'My Blue Heaven'. Charlie Johnson's recording of 'The Boy in the Boat' might skirt on too bluesy but it's great. Kind of quirky. Stopping now or I'll never stop.

    Although, if they must do swing, I'm hoping Meryl and Charlie will do this, ah, lift.

    Maybe only off ice. Or into a foam pit. I think Meryl said she's not into decapitation.

    Then again, since quickstep is considered a ballroom dance now, where Lindy hop/Charleston are not, West Coast swing might be a more appropriate mash up with the Finnstep footwork. West Coast swing is the sparkling Hollywood champagne version of swing and the Finnstep is definitely sparkling champagne. The best direction might really be a movie musical, musical or movie soundtrack from the 30s/40s/50s. Then they can really embrace a character and a story arc and avoid the whole medley pitfall.

    But for Charlie, a Charleston showdown where people did not entirely stay on their feet (even if it was intentional).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyvnn8WRTQY
  24. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    I'm hoping that DWTS will pick them up after the Olympics and have them competing against each other. I think that would be fun!
  25. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    I did some homework and the quickstep was invented in the 1920s as a lighter version of the foxtrot. It is supposed to be frothy. Ragtime era jazz would be appropriate but not that smooth style 50s jazz. Could they really annoy Tracy Wilson by choosing Scott Joplin?

    The ISU specifies 2/4 time with 104 beats per minute (52 measures).
  26. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

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    I should be apologizing for how nuts I go over vernacular jazz dance and jazz music history but they are my nerd passions (I competed in Lindy hop, which makes it that much worse).

    They could go Vernon and Irene Castle. Vintage ballroom, rather than smooth, modern ballroom. Their heyday was earlier than the quickstep but not by much, and their fame lingered. They also popularized the foxtrot and the Castle Walk is similar to the feeling of the Finnstep, too. Incidentally, Fred and Ginger played them in the late 30s. Perhaps there's some movie music to steal. Vintage ballroom means Meryl and Charlie could use some WWI-era early jazz. Vernon and Irene's bandleader was the amazing James Reese Europe. There are some recordings by his band but he was killed in 1919, so there might not be many and I don't know what the quality is.

    This could mean white tie for Charlie, though. It would definitely mean a suit. The poor darling. :swoon:
  27. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

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    YES, this is what I've thought every since Evan on DWTS.
  28. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

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    Our wishes came true, thanks to Tanith. :lol::cheer2:

    DJ is sporting that quite well.
  29. CassAgain

    CassAgain Active Member

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    Watching the progression of the FD from Skate America through 4CC, I keep coming back to the spin and rotational lift. The amount of control and skill they demonstrate is so impressive.

    What do you think they need to do to achieve level 4 in the circular steps? I can't spot the problem.
  30. Scrufflet

    Scrufflet Active Member

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    Brilliant idea! I want an all-skater version of DWTS!
  31. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

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    Seriously! I would actually watch DWTS if they were on it. I know Meryl (or Charlie) said they aren't qualified due to their dancing skillz, but I wish an exception could be made. I don't even know if they'd go for it but I wish they could at least appear on it!

    And it looks like Meryl and Charlie were up to something this weekend!

    @tankboy NBD, just me hanging with @Meryl_Davis & @CharlieaWhite. Such incredibly great people. (cl related) http://t.co/c6MfZR0V
  32. TanithandBenFan

    TanithandBenFan U.S. Ice Dance Junkie

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    I wonder if he filmed M&C's Kelloggs promo. From his blog, it sounds like he was with a skier in CO shortly before his trip to Detroit, and he's a Creative Director. :)
  33. missysays

    missysays New Member

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    I think that's a great idea as well! Would love to see them compete against each other on DWTS- that would be so much fun. :D

    Though one thought occurs to me- can you participate in DWTS if you've had ballroom dance training? Is that an unfair advantage? I know Kristi Y back in the day had a great advantage because she had dance training and also pair partnering but no real ballroom dance training. Have Meryl and Charlie had enough ballroom dance training that it would be too much of an advantage? I know they were choreographed and taught by a ballroom dancer for their Latin SD- does that count?

    I remember I saw a youtube video somewhere of Ben Agosto trying out some moves with Anna Trebunskaya of DWTS fame when she was training with Evan. Now, he would have been a riot on DWTS.
  34. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    Ben would have been a hoot.

    Heck he would still be a hoot.

    They've had people with dance training on dwts before-it depends on who the show organizers want; it's not like it's the Olympics or something.
  35. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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  36. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    They certainly are doing a lot of speculating there.

    BTW, I was (and still am) looking for a really good HD video of 4CC FD...but what I found was a really good no commentary HD video of their Skate America Short Dance...this is still my favorite SD performance of the season

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibI3DBfopgc
  37. Whitneyskates

    Whitneyskates New Member

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  38. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link. I ended up watching a lot of their videos. They articulate their point of view well.

    Jenny is pretty, knowledgeable and articulate. Why does IN stick us with Tonia?
  39. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad to see the Kellogg's profile. :)
  40. Jessiebanana

    Jessiebanana Well-Known Member

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    I think it's interesting that they place most of the connection troubles on Meryl, cause I think we tend to think of it as something Charlie isn't projecting. I do agree that Meryl is a bit more beautiful and understated, which kind of sounds like a backhanded compliment, but I know what they mean.

    I disagree with the personal life bit. Part of what was hard to watch about the Hubbells is that they both portrayed sexy very well...but were siblings. I don't think you have to have anything happening in your personal life to come of that way on the ice. I think it comes down to being more of an introvert versus an exhibitionist. It's no shock some of the best stage actors and dancers are absolute and complete hams. I think dating in your personal is reflected more in the stability of your performance than necessarily in the intensity and you don't see that in V/M the way you see that with other teams who are.

    I wonder if the choreography problems in their program have to do with how much influence each team is choosing to have in it, now that they are top teams and can.

    I absolutely agree about the Shibutanis, though I will say I think the uncertainty of them making the Olympic team has as much to do with the them falling as it does with the amount of ice dance talent we have in our country and it's exciting, especially considering 2 out of 3 of those teams are new. I feel like that's the way good competition should be. All three slots shouldn't be set years in advance. Some consistency reflects accurate judging, but too much consistency reflects either weak competition or fixed judging. I'm stoked that our 2nd, 3rd and 4th place teams would all probably be at least the 2nd place team in other countries. It's puts us in a really good spot when Meryl and Charlie retire.

    Overall I like them a lot. Thank you for introducing me to their channel!
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013