Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by literaryfreak, Sep 11, 2012.
I think Kaitlyn as developed a sense of class, but she certainly didn't have it early in her career.
I respect your opinions, Doris, and you don't usually deliver low blows, but this really feels like one. There are many reasons for V/M's loss, but lack of work ethic is certainly not among them. Frankly, I'm surprised you'd think that.
Meryl and Charlie seem to be like making history in Russia: 1st Ice Dance World Champs, 1st to win 4 consecutive GPF titles...hopefully another in 2014!
I don't think Doris, or anyone for that matter, is doubting V/M's work ethic. Every team at the GPF has to have exceptional work ethic, otherwise they wouldn't be there. I took her comment to mean that GPF "losses" always seem to get V/M even more fired up for the rest of the season (see: 2009 and 2011). They take the feedback they receive at the GPF and usually improve for the 2nd half of the season.
Wouldn't that be something?
I keep forgetting D/W have broken not only one, but two records here:
1. First ice dance team in history to win the GPF 4 times.
2. First skater(s) in any discipline in history to win the GPF 4 times consecutively.
Russia holds good things for them. Well, outside of Cup of Russia.
I'm not claiming they have a lack of work ethic; in fact, I said, that I didn't know why.
it's more that they gain an intensity/adrenalin type thing when someone beats them or scores close to them, like a horse race where the leading horse can be loping along and speeds up when another horse comes close.
If that was the case though wouldn't it mean that V/M don't take D/W as competition, even though they train together, until they were beaten by them? Shouldn't they know already from the training that D/W are competition and shouldn't V/M and D/W push each other since they have their competition in training each day?
I think it's like when your little sister beats you at chess. You think it's a fluke. You had the stomach flu. You were distracted by family stuff. Then she does it twice
AFAIR, neither team spends a lot of time watching the other train; they are far too focussed on themselves. They are just aware the competition is working hard.
Reality strikes when you see the scores/lose. Enough is enough. Then you decide the slow spin won't do and the choreo lift needs changing. That sort of thing.
Does anyone here have the medal ceremony?
I've heard this before, what did she do?
I tried to read the V/M thread, but I ended up blocking so many people that there isn't much left to read I can handle criticism and opinions that are different from my own. But I can't handle nastiness and insults. I don't think I've ever seen a team that inspires such vitrol as D/W have.
This. I'm so with you on this. I peak in the V/M thread from time to time and all I see is negative, insults from them. When D/W lost worlds I didn't see as much hate towards V/M, in fact I don't remember seeing any insults. It's disgusting.
And I think you meant V/M in your last sentence.
Looking at pictures from the whole weekend--Meryl is crazy buff this year. Her muscle definition, even in candids, is pretty amazing to be as tiny as she is.
same here They burn through threads faster than they can name them. To each their own.
Really? That's too bad. I never paid attention to her early career. She and Andrew are my favorite Canadian dance team and I was disappointed that their Grand Prix sort of hit the wall.
But back on the subject of Meryl and Charlie. I recognize my bias when I watch other teams and I have a hard time when people don't recognize their own biases and just get nasty. Tessa and Scott and Meryl and Charlie are the best of the best. They have different styles and feelings and one is not somehow better than the other, or less deserving of a win. Sometimes they have weaker programs or something, or dubious judging at a single competition when one team has clearly performed better on the day, but ultimately, these two are such a gift. This rivalry is so much fun.
Now I need two seconds to vent ahahah. I've been reading way too many articles and blogs and YouTube comments. Why do I do that to myself? For the life of me, I do not understand why people continue to peddle the nonsense that Meryl and Charlie have no connection. If they had no connection, they would not interest anyone. Not all connections in dance mean a certain kind of romance or sexual intensity. Otherwise there are a lot of competitive social and ballroom dances that have this so-called "zero connection". And a lot of ice dance teams with equally "no connection". I competed in Lindy hop and the connection between couples, especially in Jack and Jill competitions (which means you change from partner to partner in different rounds and often don't know the person you dance with), is about fun and friendliness.
Besides, I think it's more of a case of Charlie not being as strong of an actor as Meryl.
I've seen so many articles that claim Meryl and Charlie's FD is vulnerable... despite the high scores it's received all season. And not high scores where the PCS is beaten, but high scores that are high because their PCS is the best. That does not indicate, to me, that their dance is vulnerable. It indicates to me that the judges like it and, perhaps, see the improvements in expression that we see.
I also find it strange that people think Meryl and Charlie have to worry about fighting for silver or bronze. And that Nathalie and Fabian are on their tail. While yes, Nathalie and Fabian are moving on up, Meryl and Charlie came in with the highest scores by far. Why does that mean they're in danger? Why is it just them and not also Tessa and Scott?
None of this is a criticism of Tessa and Scott, mind you. It's more of a criticism of some professional comments and other things I've seen this season. It's just getting old. And I know it comes with the territory of being at the top so it's not going to get in the way of my enjoyment of their programs. But if I can't vent at least once, I'll probably be raging at people who don't care about figure skating ahaha. Worth it for the looks, maybe, but I don't want to be carted away to the funny farm.
WOO THIS GOT LONG. MY APOLOGIES.
I don't understand this either. P.J Kwong and Kurt Browning have both said this. P.J has even said the FD is beatable, even though no one has outscored them yet. I actually laughed when she said that D/W were beatable, while they were outscoring V/M all season long.
Well, considering Scott's "piss off" last season, no, they don't think Meryl and Charlie are as good as them. Well, Scott doesn't, at least. Maybe he, like his fans, thinks Meryl and Charlie just happen to win from time to time because him and Tessa do something wrong, not because D/W are so good.
Ditto. I just don't get why Meryl and Charlie's fans can accept the fact Tessa and Scott are top class, but T/S fans cannot accept it regarding M/C. Yes, a few years back Tessa and Scott were technically better than Meryl and Charlie and it showed in their results (see Worlds 2007 and 2008). But that's not the case anymore for a couple of seasons now and I wish T/S fans would wake up already and stop being so freaking blind about it.
So true. For instance, I loved the Kerrs' connection on ice and they were brother and sister. Meryl and Charlie may not be romantic or sexual towards each other in a classical way, but they certainly have loads of connection and emotion, I can see the sincerely warm feelings they have for each other when they skate and it's enough for me. Besides this year the romantic slash sexual connection has grown in their FD as well.
I just think Meryl and Charlie are more of themselves when they skate and Tessa and Scott more like become the characters they portray. Like, the emotions we see from Meryl and Charlie are natural Meryl and Charlie. It doesn't have to be a good or a bad thing, but I for one like it.
And yes, hopefully Russia turns out to be a history making place for them. As for CoR, well, that disastrous OD to a great extent made me fall for Charlie's personality, so for me it isn't a bad memory at all, more like something to laugh about. Seriously, I think it was just adorable
I see your point I guess I just assume that both teams have been competing against each other long enough to know the competition they have in each other and are experienced enough to know that those things won't do. But then, who really knows what's going on in any athletes head
Don't worry, circuscandy. The media loves to fuel the fire, so to speak. The V/M D/W rivalry keeps up interest. And also they want tension...who will win? Especially leading up to the Olympics. I personally pay little attention anymore to the talk about Meryl and Charlie's "connection". They have never had "no connection", it's just that being V/M's rivals makes folks critical of things that appear to separate the teams. I just feel that V/M are better actors...their connection is the same as D/W in reality...they are skating partners, friends, that's it. Also yes, being at the top certainly gets you attention...good and bad!
Kwong and Browning are 100% behind V/M...they are Canadian commentators. They may appreciate other teams and say so but ultimately they color their comments with their perception of V/M's superiority. Which you can't blame them for, really, they have to support their home country skaters. And even when D/W win, they are quick to say that they disagree with the results.
As far as the V/M thread...well, in the beginning it wasn't too bad but when D/W started beating them, they suddenly became the keepers of all things holy about V/M and their constant target is D/W. You will seldom see any negative comments about any other team in there. Which makes sense since D/W are truly the one threat to V/M every time they compete. Then besides the V/M ubers, there are ice dance purists on this forum who see themselves as the keepers of ice dance before CoP and pretty much anything most teams do is crap.
I just finished watching Universal Sports program on the FD...I really liked Tanith's comment at the end...she said D/W invite you in to enjoy their program while V/M seem into themselves on the ice. Most V/M fans find this a strength of V/M but I agree with Tanith...it's more enjoyable to watch a skating program that involves you with them.
I'd never really thought of that before but Tanith has a great point. That's one thing that many commentators do repeat about D/W--that they connect with the audience and the music exceptionally well. Even their so-so programs really do pull you right along with them. Meryl's expression isn't appreciated enough, I think.
And you're right about shutting out all of the media and the talk that goes on. I usually do and am definitely going to return to that! The issues with connection and even criticizing Meryl and Charlie for talking about improving, well, it doesn't get in the way of what they do, so I really shouldn't care.
Meryl and Charlie really are damned if they do, damned if they don't, it seems. They're criticized for a lack of connection and then criticized when they try to work on that. They have to much class to do it, but if I were in their position, I would really have to fight the urge to finish every performance by flipping everyone off.
Well, I don't think any of the top skaters give a rat's derriere as to what is said on the forums. It may eventually trickle down to them. Hence, they don't really feel the need to flip anyone off after their performances. Most sane people would only be open to constructive feedback which would be from judges, coaches, possibly those near and dear. I would definitely not trust anyone on this forum to drive my career in the right direction or anything else for that matter
Isn't that the truth!
Good lord, could you imagine if the top skaters did frequent the boards? Most of them would probably need some serious in-patient care by now.
Zachary Donohue did, at least once anyway, because he sent out a tweet saying that people at FSU were crazy or something to that extent
Lol, yes. Maybe it's their desire to erase that competition from their mental history that's fueling all of this success.
Sometimes I don't think they do...or at least not Scott. Not from the way he seems to take their losses to D/W. It's like they think of them as their nearest competition, a team that nips at their heels, but not a team that can beat them at their best.
Maybe I'm still a little mad at his comments though and biased. It's history. I should let it go, but it really struck me as a mean thing to say about your friends...especially in public.
The Kerrs...have one of the best connections for me. Obviously they aren't the best ice dance team. To be realistic if they weren't representing the country they were they'd probably wouldn't even on the World and Olympic feild ofter, but they are so entertaining with one another that they have just as big of fan base as any other major skater.
I've always thought that the care with with which Charlie treats Meryl is really sweet. He such a great supportive partner, it's sort of "traditional" dance in that way. They don't act like two people who are uncomfortable or unfamiliar with one another. They are far from not having a connection. When I first started watching them, before I had any opinion, I used to think of V/M as a patching pair and M/C as the big spoon, little spoon team. Kind of weird and random.
She's always buffer on the years they do crazy lifts. She just as buff for the tango FD year. As awesome and strong as Charlie is, it takes a great of participation on Meryl's part to make it happen.
Since apparently this is spam the FSU board night for me , I just have so many feelings, on to more positive random things.
Now that there are more fuller versions of their FD out there, I'm quite enjoying watching the slow motion recap. Normally there are a lot of awkward moments, but their dance looks especially good in slow mo.
Also seeing in slow motion makes me annoyed that they don't get more credit, from the viewers online not judges, for their spins. They have some of the best spins ever (for dance, Savchenko/Szolkowy have my pairs appreciation). In terms of body position, transitions, and "drift" I'd call them Alissa Czisny level spins, especially for the power team rep they have. Takes a lot of skill to be good at spins. Though I guess spins, along with death spirals, are becoming a lost unappreciated art.
Charlie hair looks amazing. If he doesn't cut it, per usual on season growing, I think his hair will be the longest it's ever been at Worlds. I'm freakishly excited about it!
I totally agree about their spins. Their transitions in and out and the speed they maintain is just phenomenal.
From the Detroit News
Metro Detroit's Meryl Davis, Charlie White win gold at Grand Prix Final
I had to shake my head at the picture they used to go with the article. And then this bit:
at that picture. It really does continue the fine tradition of Meryl, in her own words, being the bearded lady in their skating photos.
This really makes me want him to describe some of V/M's lifts.
Mirai Nagasu mentioned reading the boards as well in a tweet.
And a lot of the skaters' parents read the boards. I suppose it's like reading movie reviews if you acted in a movie...you can't help wanting to know what people thought, even if it is painful. Even more so if it's your child.
Universal Sports has the FD up (geoblocked), and it includes some of the podium shots. No commentary.
Speaking of thread names, we're going to need a new one soon!
Giselle, The Polkabration?
If the skaters read the boards, then more power to them. There should be an FSU disclaimer about doing so at your own risk As for the parents, I would assume that they have the capacity to separate the wheat from the chaff
Separate names with a comma.