Davis and White #14 - Better Late Than Sinatra

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by literaryfreak, Sep 11, 2012.

  1. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    Its almost like the judges and tech panels are trying to tighten up on the scores overall. Maybe to make Olympics more exciting? Just a random thought.
     
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  2. nlyoung

    nlyoung Active Member

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    I agree that there seems to be a trend to tighten up technical scores especially.

    Component scores for the top couples don't seem to have been impacted in the same way and are high already. Both V/M and D/W have had 10s, and neither couple has performed a perfect program yet, but I think what we see when these two skate is relative grading, i.e. they are so much better than the rest of the field that there is nowhere to go but up ;). (See I/K's scores from the preseason for another example of relative over-scoring, as their scores were comparable to what the top two have been given so far on the GP, yet they came back to earth at COR).

    I'm happy about the tougher technical calling as this is far more realistic, especially early in the season when the teams are still working to perfect their programs. D/W were given such high scores early on for programs last year that even though they did improve as the season went on, there was nowhere to go with the marks.
     
  3. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Of course. There was 2.85 point difference between the two for the most part in TES(losing a level in twizzles and one step sequence from the previous year). Their PCS, however, is the same 56.53(2011) and 56.73 (2012). My gut feeling is the elements they already had ready for their La Strada program could be placed in the new DF program so those elements were probably better trained. I imagine to go from a Sinatra program to a Notre Damn program you would have to change the feelings and movement in the step sequences and probably the twizzles as well. So if those elements were newer, rawer, I wouldn't expect them to skate to their potential. Also to consider is V&M also had to change a step sequence to get a higher level even though they felt the way they originally did the sequence is harder. The same could be true for D&W. I would be very surprised to see the same calls at their next GP event. Meryl and Charlie are fighters and will have found out by now exactly what they need to do to get those levels.
     
  4. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    I hope those judges were reprimanded. Getting a 107 at a debut is ridiculous. Guess what D/W got at Worlds? A little more than 107. What does that tell the skaters? You didn't improve anything all season? It's poor judging and hurts the skaters.
     
  5. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    Well that could be questionable since they got 112 at GPF.
     
  6. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Well, there was obviously an overscoring at GPF, but not so much at Worlds (at least in dance).
     
  7. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    Or you could say they were underscored at Worlds, or made mistakes at Worlds, given that their score at WTT was 111.18 after Worlds, and that their highest ever score was 112.38 at GPF.

    Certainly, I'd say the tech panel at GPF was an easy one, that they made visible mistakes at 4CC's, yielding a lower score, and Worlds, frankly, I thought the tech panel was inconsistent, not just hard.

    As to M&C's difficulty, they received a level 4 on the 2nd sequence of the YP, and a level 2 on the first at SKAM. The only issue that I see on the tech side is something off about how the twizzles are fitted into the FD (making them easy to make a mistake on, which Charlie did), and whatever the heck went wrong with the second step sequence to make it level 2, which is concerning.

    However, both V&M and D&W are going with almost all new lifts this year, and are really pushing themselves in other ways this year. The lifts affect both things that happen after them, and things that happen before them.

    I hope Meryl & Charlie have the FD sorted at NHK.

    I loved the SD as it was, only wanting some change to make the lift go a little better. It was just lovely live, and remarkable as a debut :love:


    Skate America Short Dance (the photos next & previous are also of them)
    http://photography.ice-dance.com/2012-13/cache/12SA/SD/12SA-SD-8831-DW-RR_595.jpg

    Skate America Free Dance (the photos next are also of them)

    http://photography.ice-dance.com/2012-13/cache/12SA/FD/12SA-FD-6762-DW-RR_595.jpg, after Worlds.

    Not every performance is a step upward for a team, for whatever reason.
     
  8. literaryfreak

    literaryfreak Well-Known Member

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    Icenetwork's Sectionals interview with D/W is up now!

    I wonder, assuming D/W make the GPF, will they go home in between or go straight to the GPF (Russia) from NHK (Japan)? I noticed the Shibs aren't going back to Canton between Cup of Russia and NHK.
     
  9. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

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    That was one of my theories, at least as far as TES. Because we still see that the top teams are getting much higher PCS. I mean, Meryl and Charlie's FD has the highest so far (not by much, though).

    Anyway, we'll really have to wait until the end of the season to judge if there is a pattern and what that pattern truly means. The second half of last season brought a sort of reckoning to M/C. The way they were getting scored by the GPF, I was expecting their final scores to shoot through the roof and hit the moon! :lol:
     
  10. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the feelings and movement from La Strada would be any more easily translated to DF, than Sinatra to Notre Dame.
     
  11. iNap

    iNap Active Member

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    Funny face have same funny feeling as carmen just like la strada have the same feeling like Die fledermaus ;) Sinatra have not a damn feeling, maybe all smiling and cute. It is Marina standard program when she feel lazy :rofl:
     
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  12. literaryfreak

    literaryfreak Well-Known Member

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    :rofl:
     
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  13. shsocu

    shsocu Active Member

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    Do Meryl and Charlie always compete during Thanksgiving? It seems that way ;) Can't wait for NHK!
     
  14. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    Probably related to college vacations?
     
  15. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. We don't know what their music was like for La Strada but when I think of past programs for La Strada I can see how lifts and other elements to certain parts of the music could translate to the music DF. For me it's a bigger stretch to interchange elements from Sinatra to Notre Dame as Sinatra is lighter and ND heavier and more dramatic (for instance I don't particularly like their famous DF lift in Notre Dame, it's a fantastic lift and can see why it's used again as it gets them +3 in GOE but for me it doesn't suit the mood and tempo of the music and therefore less impressive than it is in faster perkier music.)
     
  16. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    ?
    I thought it suited the mood, since it celebrates the the part of the Dans mon Esmeralda song where the words are:

    Charlie is still looking pained, but Meryl is looking transformed, off to heaven.

    Works for me.
     
  17. Piper

    Piper Member

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    According to Marina, the judges themselves asked to leave this lift for the next season.

    http://winter.sport-express.ru/figureskating/reviews/26123/
     
  18. Theatregirl1122

    Theatregirl1122 Well-Known Member

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    The change to DF happened much later. I don't think the two situations are that comparable. The switch to ND came well before Champs camp. I don't know how much of the Sinatra FD was created before they decided the concept wasn't working, but there is a quite a difference between making a whole new program after champs camp and switching ideas in time to be prepared to skate at champs camp.

    I think the reason that DF was pretty much ready to go out of the gate where ND is not is probably fairly similar to why S&D was ready to go right out of the gate where ER and Il Postino had much more tweaking. DF and S&D were both concepts that Marina had in her head (for D&W or in general) for a very long time. So I think they premiered more as finished products where as other FDs Meryl and Charlie have had were works in progress choreographically and conceptually when they started the season.
     
  19. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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  20. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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  21. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    :swoon: works for me, too.
     
  22. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

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    Works for me, too (too)! They did mention that they were careful to really understand and use the lyrics, so that seems like a lovely example of it. I do enjoy that lift, though, as a signature lift. And if the judges liked it, too, well. Win-win!
     
  23. missysays

    missysays Active Member

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  24. Jiazumi

    Jiazumi Active Member

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    :rofl: Are they skaters, as well?
    OTOH I know Meryl weighs close to nothing, but everything I see that lift, I cringe at the thought of her blade against Charlie's leg. And the new lift in ND, where Meryl slides down Charlie's leg an lies down on his boot, I always think she might go too fast and slide onto the ice and get cut by his boot. Weird, I know (only I think of stuff like this).:eek:
     
  25. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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  26. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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  27. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for uncovering that hidden gem. It is so much fun to read this article in 2012. Glad to see that they were just as driven back then as they are now :)
     
  28. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    I love the idea of one outstanding lift following another as a climax of the dance (not sure how I feel about one of them being the DF signature lift yet, though), but I do wish the fact Esmaralda is dead would be a little more visible. Maybe I've watched Anissina and Peizerat too many times, but in their ex you could definitely tell Esmeralda was dead and Quasimodo was suffering. In Meryl and Charlie's version, not so much. I mean, maybe they just had a different vision of the song, but for me, well, I'd just like to see someone die in the storyline of the dance, I guess ;)

    However, I do love it when the "Danse mon Esmeralda" lyrics come up for the first time and they begin their step sequence and Charlie grabs her hand and kind of leads her into it. For me it's a perfect interpretation of the words "dance my Esmeralda". I know it's a tiny thing and perhaps it wasn't even planned to be understood as I understand it, but I still love it.

    And seriously, I hope it's the last time they compete in the first and the last GP event. It's been a torture since SA, waiting to see them again. Thank goodness NHK is next week already.
     
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  29. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    Whoa! Until I read your post, I hadn't realized that Esmeralda is supposed to be dead for that entire song! Just from watching their program, I thought she was alive for all of it, and they both die together at the end of the program! Yikes. Yeah, I hope that at NHK, her death is more clear...unless they are doing some different interpretation where she doesn't die, or dies later?
     
  30. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    I had the feeling she was dying in the last section or maybe not at all. I like the suggestion that she was going to heaven and Charlie showing his angst over her dying. That's the interpretation I get the feeling of.