David Wilson will be choreographing new programs for Gachinski and Tuktamysheva

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Maofan7, Apr 27, 2012.

  1. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Well-Known Member

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    New article stating that David Wilson will be choreographing new programs for Artur Gachinski and Elizaveta Tuktamysheva.

    I think this is a very good move by Alexei Mishin, and will really help Artur and Liza in terms of their PCS marks.
  2. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  3. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    This is of course good news, especially if there will be no watered down choreography (refering to Weir´s "Wilson choreography").
  4. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    Mishin and Wilson, that is a pairing I never thought I would see.
  5. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    I agree! I hope that the programs stay in tact with what David lays out. She really does perform well.
  6. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    Good for Gachinski and Tuk to have wider exposure, and David is a world class choreo. They both have tremendous potential. Everyone's flocking to Canada!:)
  7. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    I think this is a good thing. And you know who else would benefit from Wilson vs. the bombastic style she has now? Liza's teammate, Adelina.
  8. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Excellent to hear that. I think Mishin needs to move out of where he has been for his students. Maybe a reason why Plush is going to Pasquale too.
  9. jjane45

    jjane45 New Member

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    Really curious what this off season brings out of Liza!
  10. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    I am happy to hear this! I am especially looking forward to seeing Queen Tukt next season:)
  11. ice9

    ice9 Active Member

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    This is indeed good news.

    But considering what happened to Gachinski's Dickson programs last year, I'm not holding my breath. :shuffle:
  12. apatinar

    apatinar New Member

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    Let's hope a brand new , mature style and a triple axel in competition!!!:D
  13. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    As I've said before, Gachinski, IMO might be helped to develop more stretch and fluidity, not to mention gracefulness, by training in ballet. Or has he already, and it had little effect?? He lives in the land of historic and amazing ballet tradition, so why wouldn't he be able to incorporate ballet training into his regimen, and benefit from it?
  14. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    A little sad about this because I absolutely loved Artur's programs this season. The short was so much fun, I think it really helped him develop an on-ice personality, and it fit the music so well! And I think the long has so much potential for further development. I was really hoping for him to keep these two and carry on with them into this season.

    Here's hoping Wilson gives him something awesome!
  15. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    ^ And that Mishin doesn't ruin it by throwing out 90% of the choreograraphy.
  16. ProgramerUSFS

    ProgramerUSFS New Member

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    I wonder why some of the Russian skaters are coming out and doing this. Why have they not done this before and they are now? Anyone have a theory?
  17. os168

    os168 Active Member

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    Politics, conflict of interests, internal and international. It would be interesting to see how they will be received back home at Russia Nationals too.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2012
  18. jl22aries

    jl22aries Active Member

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    Gosh I'm sure people could base their entire thesis on exploring the recent history of Russian Skating and it's perceived "collapse". From the little I know, this is my take: I wonder if their system has just been slow to recover from the Soviet collapse. All the defecting that occurred in the 90s moved a significant chunk of their talent across the pond. I think that change made all the difference.

    It was the newer generation of skaters who were growing up in Russia, who were born after the collapse, that were feeling the deficit during the mid '00s.

    Now they are in a phase of rebirth, catching up with the rest of the world's well oiled skating federations. Made all the more difficult because the new judging system just so happened to be introduced just as they were in the process of rebirth so now they have that extra hill to battle; the new system is so counter intuitive to the legacy of Russian skating. You can still see that legacy in the types of programs being produced by skaters who are training within Russia; the programs are beautiful and really not to take away from their value, but they are very old fashioned (in concept, music, design, costuming, everything). I think this is one of the reasons that despite their being a few potential turning points over the last few years, any momentum immediately sputtered. The unbelievable talented skating stars have come through to provide those shining moments, but overall their federation was rooted still in a system that no longer cohered to the one that the rest of the world was playing in.

    Now there's looming Sochi so the push to medal is smacking, but boy they are cutting it close just two, three seasons before the games, only just now luring coaches back to Russia and sending students abroad. Clearly now the federation sees what it needs to do to compete with the rest of them. What remains a little :confused: is why it took them so long. Pride? Were they, are they so strongly rooted in the traditions of Russian skating that they could not let go of a style, philosophy, and system that could no longer compete with the world? Lack of funding?

    What are your thoughts?
  19. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    The impression I have gotten from Russians living in the U.S. Is that the economic situation in the former Soviet Union was pretty dire after the break- up. It has only been in the last couple of years that I have heard them speak of their homeland with optimism. Ice skating probably wasn't a priority.
  20. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    The PCS is very low and not getting better and in the 2011-2012 season Mishin introduced backloading to Gachinski and also chose Tom Dickson to work with him or however that worked. In Sochi teams can't risk getting 5's in PCS like Plushenko did in Vancover. You can't have that happen. Classic "Russian" design of Ice Dance programs and Mens programs have to be thrown in the garbage and are being thrown in the garbage. Ladies is looking good because the technical elements are so strong for them- but getting PCS higher is important. Pairs has been good there throughout COP due to Moskvina and her just being always on top of any change that happens.

    ETA- Pride was a factor and the past success.
  21. ProgramerUSFS

    ProgramerUSFS New Member

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    I had kind of thought this, but wasn't sure. Some of their younger skaters such as Tuktamysheva did real good, I had thought. But she did seam to skate from jump to jump. Do you think that a choreographer can create the parts missing? Or is it really an everyday training mind set?
  22. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that Wilson's, Gachinski's and Tuktamisheva's styles match at all.

    Why not Tom Dickson or Pasquale Camerlengo?

    Especially given Camerlengo was there anyway for Plushenko.
  23. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    I think the LAST thing Mishin would want to do is give Plushenko and Gachinski the same choreographers. They're doing their best to give Artur is own identity as a skater and his own on-ice personality. The LAST thing he needs is to have a program too similar to Plushy's in probably the most important season of his career.

    So I totally agree with the idea that Artur and Plushy should have different choreographers.

    I still like the Tom Dickson programs from the season just gone and was hoping for a repeat, but oh well. We'll have to see what Wilson comes up with. Hopefully Artur works with Tom Dickson again in the future.
  24. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    From all the programs I watched from Worlds, Gachinski probably had the worst choregraphed freeskate out of the men. Just made me cringe watching them. Choregraphy did not match the music or it was just a lot of phaff with no purpose.
  25. os168

    os168 Active Member

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    Ditto x 10!!!

    I totally agree with you.. I have been complaining about that program since the beginning of the season while he kept getting over marked coming off the bronze last year. Urghhh... glad I am right :cool:

    I think Wilson and Liza could be very interesting. I find her innately musical and have a good sense of rhythm that dancers have. She should be capable of better expressions with better age appropriate program (and costumes) that she can connect with. Artur... I wish he does something else beyond the 'blue steel' look. I am not that positive on his prospects, he rarely ever listens to the music let alone express anything emotionally different through out his entire program.
  26. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Those Hercules arms :scream:

    The only reason he didn't do them at Worlds was because well, he didn't land his jumps.

    I don't think it matters who originates the choreography. In this case the most important person is who controls how much choreography gets executed.
  27. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    You can give a skater all the choreography in the world, but unless they know how to use it, then it is not going to work.
  28. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Did Pechalat/Bourzat's and Weaver/Poje's programs look similar?
  29. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    I don't know. Did they?

    In this case it is not neccessarily about them actually looking the same. It is the perception. Artur already gets enough irrational hate and bashing for being a "mini-Plushenko". If he was with the same choreographer, similarities would be inevitable, and people would actively go looking for them instead of looking at Artur. So, a different choreographer is the better solution there.
  30. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Well watch and judge for yourself then.

    It would be hard to do that if they were given two very different programs.

    Camerlengo's style fits Gachinski much better than Wilson's style does.
  31. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    He already gets the same type of choreography as Plushenko. Random, frenetic and lacking finesse and purpose. That is why he gets accused of being a mini-Plushenko. It really is nothing different to what we have seen before from that same team.

    A good choreographer works to each skaters strengths and has the ability to bring out the best in the individual skater or couple. So whilst two skaters can have the same choreographer, if they can get totally different looks for each skater then that is the sign of a great choreographer.

    If you can't tell the difference between W&P and P&B's choreography, then you must be blind.
  32. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm looking forward to seeing what Liza T can do under David's guidance. I really like his programs and I'm anxious to see Liza T in a different style aside from the programs she's had for the past two seasons. I enjoy her energy and her jumps but her programs/style irks me. It's a matter of preference really, nothing against her. I hope David is able to push her out of her shimmy-shimmy-shake/upbeat/latin comfort zone and give her some actual choreography to pull off. Liza T is a good performer so I'm pretty hopeful about whatever David cooks up for her.

    I think this is a good move for her and proves that she and her team are serious about helping her improve as a skater. Now my fingers are crossed to hear that both Adelina and Julia are stepping out and trying a new choreographer, in particular Julia. Lord help that child if she stays with Morosov as a choreographer!:scream: Talk about a waste of talent...
  33. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Well they're both going, maybe Liza and Artur are going to do pairs :lol::lol::lol::lol:


    ....actually that would be kind of awesome
  34. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

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    Anybody know how much Wilson charges for choreography? Given what can probably pretty safely surmised as blank checks on Tukt and Artur's ends, be he is making out like a bandit.
  35. Cheburashka87

    Cheburashka87 New Member

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    I actually am!! I think your take is pretty spot on, if anyone has any other ideas/theories/thoughts I'd love to hear them!
  36. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    My guess is around 10k per program at least, if not 15k.
  37. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

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    Maybe someone has said this before. I can't predict the relative success of this arrangement but I sure think it signals that even Mishin is willing to do whatever it will take to make it work for his team in Sochi. This is more of a new strategy (Plush appears to be expanding his creative team too) and implemented early enough in the cycle to make some difference. What Wilson can or will achieve is yet to be seen but this is an approach shift on Mishin's part and signals some seriousness about not dishing up the very same thing this time around.
  38. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    I am confused though. Is the name of the game that the Russian coaches cant teach foreign skaters but Russian skaters can go abroad for choreography? wow...

    Also, i find it interesting that neither Morozov or Tarasova are making any programs for Russian skaters.
  39. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

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    What are you talking about? Tarasova is making programs for Adelina. Morozov was choreographing for lots of skaters including V/T, Lipniskaya, Leonova, I/K, Shelepen, and many others. Maybe I misunderstood you??