Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by missflick, May 15, 2010.
Thank you for that article.
At least we know more about the coaching change and where she ended up in that regard.
Ironic, though, that getting Biontano and Leaver involved was supposed to be about her hearing it said in different words or something like that...the same rationale for her current coaching switch.
The "I got scared" explanation for her Nationals meltdown has a familiar ring to it.
Wishing her the best, and it would be great to see her wonderful style and spins on the competitive ice one more season, but this coaching change all comes very late in the game for her chronologically speaking
I think Czisny's meltdown at nationals can be explained by nearly every US lady skater having their worst ever nationals the year after they win it the first time and/or the first time they are expected to win it. Czisny just had a long ways to fall to have her worst showing
Any way I think Yuka's strong basic's and clam could be the perfect coach for Alissa. I wanted Sasha to go to her for the same reason.
I really don't think it's the coaching situation for her.... She really needs a good sports psycologist to help her figure things out....
Czisny's problem isn't her head, it's her scary jump technique. I wish her well, but.... it's probably 5 or 10 years too late for her to fix that, even with a new coach.
Jeremy had already won nationals the year before he went to Sato and a Grand Prix final. So a ninth place finish at the Olympics and an inability to defend his Grand Prix title (4th), hardly demonstrate that this was such a successful move on his part.
I wonder why Czisny is continuing. If it is to redeem herself, that could turn out disappointing. That being said, I like to watch her---although invariably disappointed--so I look forward to seeing her new programs and her always beautiful costumes. Her jump technique is scary. It seems to always be like a roll of the dice with a lot of luck needed. Too bad, she couldn't correct it earlier, but if Boitano and Leaver couldn't help her do that, I doubt anyone can.
Maybe Czisny's biggest problem is an inability to identify her problem. Without an accurate diagnosis, you probably won't get very far.
She's already admitted to letting nerves get to her in competition...but I'm sure you know better.
I am sure nerves did play a part. But, as much as I love Alissa's skating, it is clear from watching Alissa all these years that she has poor technique on her jumps. I have no doubt that Alissa pulls off her jumps better in practice (most skaters do). The nerves just contribute to her inability to land her poorly executed jumps when she needs to in competition. Perfecting proper jump technique helps a skater land the jumps with or without nerves. I'm sure Alissa knows that her technique is not the best, but it's not something that every skater is able to correct. But Alissa does so many other things so beautifully that she has the capability of doing quite well even when all her jumps aren't landed. I'm glad she's continuing on next season. She's always a pleasure to watch.
For Jeremy this is a good mature move. He's gotten to the age when many people are living on their own.
Someone mentioned a while back Alissa's lack of a money jump. Jeremy, despite suffering from nerves, can usually count on his triple flip, triple toe combo and the easier jumps. Alissa doesn't seem to have jumps that she can count on when she's under intense pressure.
This is true. I mean, Alissa has issues with her lutz, flip and loop and doesn't attempt a salchow. She has a solid triple toe and her 2a has gotten a lot better recently but that's not enough to go places. She has never had a 3-3 either. To me, her jump technique doesn't look scary (it used to circa 2004-2007 before she worked on her technique) she just never seems to get much height on them and she doesn't have a lot of speed either so the combination just makes for inconsistent jumps. Alissa had great success internationally in 2005 but that was before judges started cracking down on URs, which she is constantly being issued now.
Oh. Please just stay pretty and spin.
I don't see her jump success rate changing until she gets some more muscle.
It's definitely in her head. We've seen her give great performances at times and ugly ones at other times... Of course her technique needs some work (although it is better than what it used to be and really one of the biggest issue she has at the moment is her cautiousness and her head bobbing) and she needs to be more forceful and less cautious.
I know, she looks very thin and waiflike out there compared to the likes of Ashley Wagner and Joannie Rochette.
Who knows, Maybe Alissa will really blossom during the next quad. She kinda reminds me of Shizuka... unbelievable style and potential, realized reall late in her career (by the sports standards) Shizuka was 23 before she really broke through, and Alissa is 22.
Or she'll be another Sandhu. But I really hope not.
For the sake of US figure skating, I want to see some 20-somethings like Czisny do well. Let's face it, the peaking at 15/16 formula won't work for US girls anymore. The team needs a couple of Mirais and some older girls to do well also.
So I hope Forte, Czisny and even Meissner have a good year.
OK, let's be real. What is her jump 'technique'? It's nonexistant. Maybe she gets nerves too. But when your basic technique sux, there is no telling how bad every performance will be. It's not in her head, it's the technique she was 'taught' or allowed to get away with. That is the fault of the coach. Too bad she didn't leave that awful coach ten years ago. Alissa is a 'might have been' skater. Yeah, she got a US championship, albeit controversially, but she is just not anyone you can expect to go out and do a good performance. Her coaching and technique are horrific. I wish she'd just retire. She might not even make top ten at Nats next year.
She is just 22 (too young!!!) 16 years old girls should not being winning nationas (too young!) anyway...I think she is great but she needs to control her nerves, maybe ths will came with the help of a phycologist or both, a phycologist and a new coach that trougth a new jump tecniche or a rework on her basics can give to her new level of confidence.
I'm really glad tha she is going to saty, i like her style and her 22 yeas old maturity. It is not to late for her, i wish her some great seasons!
Hey, if she wants to learn more about algae, more power to her!
How would the phycologist and the new coach work together? Would they just smear algae on Alissa's dress right before her competitions or something? You just never know--that could work wonders.
Sadly, that's probably true.
Did you ever take a close look at her jumps? Her technique is terrible.
i meant psychologist http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Psychologist, Thanks neptune
OK, since people are saying Alissa's jump technique is so bad, which jumps are we talking about, and what does she do on those jumps that is such poor technique?
I believe the role of a sport psychologist is overstated. Paul Wylie worked with one, but it wasn't until he finished college that he managed to put it together. Rudy Galindo didn't have one I think, but he had to cast aside his personal tragedies and anger and fall in love with skating again to win his 1996 national championship. Jeremy has worked with a psychologist for years but I think he didn't get anywhere until he desired a shot at the Olympics badly enough to fix his 3A and put two clean programs together.
flip - slight lip and she often gets downgraded on it
loop - almost always underrotated because she does the 3 turns before it but it doesn't give her momentum
salchow - she does not attempt it so I assume she has issues with this jump
lutz - edge takeoff is fine but it seems like she can never do 2 clean 3lutzes in a program, one or both she nearly always botches, i've noticed when she messes up her lutzes her weight gets behind her
Really? I don't know, but she looks perfectly healthy to me.
From Alexei'sgirl's excellent photos on the SOI thread:
I don't think anyone wants another "too thin/too heavy" "weight" thread, and it's probably not your intention to steer it in that direction.
To the contrary, Alissa continues to be very physically fit and athletic IMHO and to most of her fans and even detractors.
Anyway, so far there are 3 camps:
1) Alissa's jump problems in competition are a "headcase" issue
2) They are a jump technique issue
3) Only Alissa knows (or might not) for sure....let's let her and her new coach figure it out the best they can.
BTW, I'm in camp # 3.
Hoping that this SOI tour + new coach + no college classes + "throw caution to the wind" adds up to a very successful GP season for Alissa...especially if she intends for it to be her last one.
You'd have to pay me to spend a few hours researching that and then doing a write-up.
You know how Alissa looks so tall? Well I met her at SOI about a month ago and I was shocked at how small she was. She is petite, about 5'4" and very slender (I thought she was more 5'6" or 5'7" but she isn't). She looks tall because she is so thin. She does not look unhealthy, it's just that many other female skaters are much sturdier/more muscular than her.
It's a combination of all 3. Most skaters get nervous, but if they have solid technique then usually nerves alone won't cause them to bomb. If the technique is not as solid, then it isn't fully reliable when nerves kick in. Also, she reworked some of her technique a few years ago and probably alternates between the old and new technique if I had to guess and that throws her off.
I hope so too, but to be honest I'm more interested in the young up-and-coming talent as Alissa realistically won't be sticking around until Sochi.
Give me a short run down!
From what I can recall, her timing seems way off, on the take-off often, especially on the harder triples.
More specifically, there seems to be a lack of coordination between the take-off main leg, the assist free leg and she seems to take off too late. IIRC.
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