Coughlin/ Denney This Season

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by aftershocks, Sep 27, 2011.

  1. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I've seen their sp from this summer. Are there any vids posted of their sp/ lp at Nebelhorn?

    What's the verdict so far? Seems they are being promoted for the top spot at Nationals since both have been past champions and their pairing is fully supported and deemed promising/ a success.

    I am pulling more for Evora/ Ladwig, and I also hope to see Marley/ Brubaker continue to develop and become more competitive.
     
  2. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    They have achieved good results due to good training and solid jumping skills. Not because they are being promoted as past champions. However you like them personally or artistically, you cannot deny that they have their act together jump-wise, and their presentation while not the best is fine for this stage. I don't like their music choices this year but I am not going to be upset if they zoom to the top of US pairs because they obviously have worked very hard and don't need to spend years toiling away mid-pack at US Nationals just because they are new.

    My favorite 3 US pairs are Evora/Ladwig, Castelli/Shnapir, and Donlan/Speroff, and I'd absolutely love to see them bring the jumps and win everything. But I have to be realistic that other outcomes are likely and I can't be mad at all the other teams who manage to skate better.
     
  3. iris81

    iris81 New Member

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  4. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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  5. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    All the lifts are atrocious, especially the pole dancing one to finish. The program is awful, there's no choreography, and it feels like it lasts 15 minutes. SUCH a step backwards for John after his gorgeous, stylish programs with Yankowskas last year. :wall:
     
  6. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I see the critics' points, although I'm trying to be positive. To me, it looked like they were attacking the LP and had speed [again, hard to judge speed]. Also, it looked like he had more extension than in the past
     
  7. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    They need a real choreographer in Colorado Springs. This has been a problem since the beginning. Even Ave Maria wasn't that great of a program, but Caitlin was a star and she made it look nice. If only Dalilah could find a choreographer at least half as good as the Boston teams or Shanti...there has never been much originality in those CO programs, its really unfortunate.
     
  8. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Marina Zoueva choreograph this LP for Denney/Coughlin? If so, she clearly didn't put more than 15 minutes of work into it. I know the great Dalilah herself choreographed the horrid East of Eden short, but I seem to remember Denney/Coughlin going out to Detroit earlier this year to get this LP?

    Marina did choreograph Ava Maria for Yankowskas/Coughlin.

    ETA: Yes, in this fluff article they mention Zoueva choreographing their LP for this season.
     
  9. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Marina Zoueva choreographed "Ave Maria" last season and she choreographed D/C's FS (I think "Nessun Dorma" was selected for her, though). I think their "East of Eden" SP (despite the music cuts) is the better program for them this season. I hope we'll get to see a video of their Nebelhorn version since that's what won them the bronze medal in their international debut.
     
  10. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

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    it's pretty awkward. i reminds me of something from the human centipede movies.
     
  11. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    V/T do that lift too. Blech...
     
  12. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    That lift would be good if her back more upright, and the leg on the catch foot was stretched and held higher.

    Right now she's hunched over and straining to catch the foot. V&T's version is slightly better, but still with similar issues. I think you need to have Cohen like flexibility to make that type of lift look good.
     
  13. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Question [more like pontificating] -

    I don't understand why a pair like this, who are pretty solid on all the big tricks - big 3twist, nice-sized throw 3z and 3l, SBS triples and double axels, big lifts, etc. - wouldn't then be able to spend a lot of time working on the finer points of beautiful skating, such as toe point, leg extension, back position, learning about relation to the music, even appropriate facial expressions. Proper mastery of the first few I mentioned would improve their GOE on several elements and lead to a jump in their scores. It seems not to be a tall task like learning a jump.

    And will it ever happen? I didn't see Caydee improving in these areas while with Jeremy. Nor did I see John improving with Caitlin.

    Is it all innate, or can it be learned?
     
  14. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    I've seen John make small but noticeable improvements in his line/extension during his time with Caitlin (her carriage/line/extension are so good that he HAD to work hard to improve his form from mediocre to just average ;)) -- many fans just didn't pay attention to them in their first 3 seasons because they weren't that consistent until their last season together.

    I think Caydee and John are planning to work on "finer points of beautiful skating" but it will take time and much effort by both of them because neither are naturally graceful or musical skaters. I already can see Caydee making small but noticeable improvements in some of her positions so far (I agree that her lift positions still need a lot of work).
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  15. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    Well they've been together since, what, May? June? I can understand if they don't have the most riveting presentation at this point. I think they can surely improve in these areas with time and work, maybe with some dance and ballet classes. I don't think Caydee is ever gonna be a Gretchen Donlan or Marissa Castelli who IMO have better presentation than a lot of our top senior ladies. But can she improve her dance abilities and positioning in the lifts? Yes, I really don't see why not. (sorry if I'm parroting Sylvia, we were posting at the same time)
     
  16. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    I question the style choice in their music and choreography. To me it emphasizes the deficiencies in their presentation. It would have been nice to see them have a different style for at least one of their programs.
     
  17. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting the link! They seem competent, but boring. I'd like to see much more excitement and energy. Sure they are working hard and not resting on their laurels as past champions with separate partners. Still, that cred is definitely an asset for them and is/has been/ will continue to be used to promote them.

    I admit being more in love with Evora/ Ladwig (energy, exciting lifts, unison, dedication to each other as a team, love for the sport, work ethic). E/L at 2010 Olympics were truly inspiring.

    D/C could possibly win me over if they were able to find and develop their own unique style with great music and choreo -- refine their technique and positions without falling back on the safe, classic Russian style of skating. I liked Denney's verve, confidence and flair when she first hit the scene -- yes, she's needed help with lines, maturity and technique, but why lose everything else that makes her sing as a skater? Ah well, that's figure skating ... conformity and political correctness is always the safest path, but not necessarily the groundbreaking, uplifting, magical moments trajectory.
     
  18. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that skaters and coaches seem to think that in order to demonstrate their growth in lines and musicality they have to skate to slow, boring music like Turandot, Rhapsody in Blue, Meditations, etc. I mean those music are classisc but they're so overused and they're slow.
     
  19. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I somewhat agree with this and forgot to mention it. Bombastic movie and opera music is NOT good for them because it requires dramatic flair that are not necessarily part of their on-ice personalities

    But, East of Eden is good music for them [as it is IMO for Rachael Flatt]. I think this type of soft yet potent music can 'carry' them through any artistic deficiencies. They don't have to emote or stretch too much to convey the music
     
  20. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    Okay fair enough, but I wish they had paired this SP w/ something more dynamic in the LP. (Maybe dynamic isn't the right word.)
     
  21. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Tend to agree with previous points made by orbitz and olympic. I might enjoy D/C more if they could find the right music and choreo that suits them and accentuates their strengths, which is not easy to do. Agree that they should have thought about varying the musical style and approach for their lp -- the sp is okay -- trying to do something similar in the lp does tend to highlight their deficiencies.

    I'm thinking of a brother/ sister team who made a great splash at Nats one year with some exciting, dramatic music and choreo that worked wonders for them -- can't remember their names or title of their music, alas.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  22. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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  23. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Very true
     
  24. skatemommy

    skatemommy Well-Known Member

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    Ginger and Archie Tse? That's going back a few years.
     
  25. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Ah, yes, thanks shan! It is the Hartsells I was thinking of -- Thanks for posting those vids. Perfect examples of finding the right music and choreo to accentuate your strengths. Skating, scoring, choreo, competition challenges maybe weren't quite as difficult then, but still the Hartsells in their dream season is a perfect example of improving by accentuating your strengths as a pair.
     
  26. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    Not to make the thread drift, but while the Hartsells were never my favorite pair, they had speed and attack that some teams are lacking.
     
  27. robinhood

    robinhood Active Member

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    ;);)

    I can't understand why would John ditch Caitlin for Denney if they're going to continue in the same lyrical snot style:D he had with Yankowkas:confused:

    I mean, the comparisons are horrible but inevitable and with this new pair I'd have expect there was at least a void potential, if not going through a different route than the classical/lyrical stereotypical pairs stuff. There are too many international pairs much better than them in this department, imo:dog:
     
  28. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    Yes, I thought they'd do a movie score or something bombastic and fast. I thought the whole point was to be an athletic pair, not lyrical classical wannabes when they are not. Hmm.
     
  29. UMBS Go Blue

    UMBS Go Blue KWEEN 2016! YES WE KWAN!

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    EYS! Is Tom Dickson still there, gone into early retirement, or simply been hit-and-miss lately with his programs? He did some great work with Savoie, Abbott, and others. :watch:
     
  30. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    :swoon: Tom Dickson. I loved the FDs he choreographed for Summersett/Gilles. Has he ever choreographed for pairs?