Corrected thread- Best pro male skater

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vash01, Jul 14, 2013.

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(corrected) who is the best male pro skater?- Pick 3

Poll closed Oct 12, 2013.
  1. Brian Boitano

    37 vote(s)
    20.6%
  2. Scott Hamilton

    23 vote(s)
    12.8%
  3. Paul Wylie

    13 vote(s)
    7.2%
  4. Brian Orser

    8 vote(s)
    4.4%
  5. Kurt Browning

    122 vote(s)
    67.8%
  6. Viktor Petrenko

    16 vote(s)
    8.9%
  7. Ilia Kulik

    25 vote(s)
    13.9%
  8. Alexei Yagudin

    27 vote(s)
    15.0%
  9. Jeff Buttle

    26 vote(s)
    14.4%
  10. Stephane Lambiel

    42 vote(s)
    23.3%
  11. Toller Cranston

    10 vote(s)
    5.6%
  12. Other (Specify)

    15 vote(s)
    8.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    It's obvious that you are not sorry. Probably I should have called your opinion "crap" too instead of trying to explain why I can't agree with your "opinions" about Lambiel? Perhaps then you would understand me better? Otherwise it seems that we are talking in two very different languages. But I still want to know - what did I write that is so "misleading" and "low"? Me liking Yagudin's recent show programs, but not being as excited about them as I was about his earlier programs and his programs from the TV shows? Or me agreeing that Yagudin is musical? Because I sure as hell didn't say that Yagudin is not musical. How could I when I don't think that? I really have no idea where did you read that. I didn't even say that Lambiel is more musical than Yagudin, just that he is not less musical - I don't see how is that low. It's your problem that you can't read and understand properly.

    As for "rough around the edges" - for me it is nothing negative. Yes, probably I used the wrong expression in this case, but English is not my native language, and I don't know how to say it better. Another way to say it could be that Yagudin's skating can seem less refined and controlled, and more unrestrained. Not that I think that Lambiel's skating is really restrained. Anyway, I was just trying to guess what you meant by "natural" and "organic", and to have a discussion instead of an argument. Unfortunately, you don't want to have a discussion, and you don't want to explain, so I will remain unknowing.

    One more thing about "misleading". You accuse me of writing "non-factual" and "misleading" things, but your "opinions" that all of Lambiel's programs are "the same" and "sweet sugar" are much more superficial and misleading than anything that I said about Yagudin. I wouldn't be surprised if you don't want to explain yourself simply because you can't.

    I liked this program when I watched it on TV, and I still like it - just as many other programs that they skated in the 'Ice Age' show. It's Yagudin's solo programs that don't excite me that much anymore (although I like almost all of them), not his TV show programs together with Lanskaya.
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2013
  2. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Again, a very superficial statement. How are Run, Paint It Black, Let The Good Times Roll, Prelude in G minor, Rigoletto, My Body Is a Cage, A Chorus Line and Don't Stop The Music so similar? You can't judge just by the genre of music (classical, jazz, or so on), or by costume. Yes, Lambiel has never played a real "bad guy", but "the nice guy" doesn't cover someone who feels like his body is a cage, and is trying to break free ('My Body Is a Cage'), a drunk man after a night in the club ('Don't Stop The Music'), a soldier who dares to dream of a softer life just for a moment, but can't really allow himself to feel emotions ('Prelude in G minor'), someone who feels that there is darkness in his soul ('Paint It Black'), or a narcissistic duke ('Rigoletto').

    Lambiel is not the only skater in this poll who has played different roles in his programs, but not really a "bad guy" - the same can be said of Browning, Buttle and others. Talking about skaters who are not a part of this poll, I somehow don't remember any programs where your favorite skater (Plushenko, of course) plays a real bad guy, although he has played different roles too. But I wouldn't say that all of his programs are similar because of that. "good guy" versus "bad guy" is really very simplified and superficial.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
  3. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    Simply post videos to wash my eyes
    Speaking of dancing, versatile, and athleticism all together, this guy is simply not human, that's why he doesn't belong to this poll.
    Robin Cousins skates to Julian Lloyd Webber's music
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt7uF7pFQ04&list=PL034C78319BCE7705



    And there's a whole bunch of his videos on that channel.
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2013
  4. t.mann

    t.mann New Member

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    Amazing.

    Among ladies, why isn't there true artists such as Curry, Cousins, Lambiel?
    M.y.s.t.e.r.y.
  5. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    I notice your order changed, Lambiel is not just 2nd to Curry now? As far as I know, there are quite some beautiful performances from women's discipline too.
  6. t.mann

    t.mann New Member

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    lol. Your eyes are sharp. ;)

    But Lambiel is yet the 2nd artist for me.
    Cousins is more versatile. But I can not ignore Lambiel's uniqueness(Lambielesque-) which will stand out still after many many years.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
  7. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    There is an interesting comment on Youtube " Lambiel always looks like the Sad Prince to me". It is exactly what I feel too when I watch him, no matter the program, to me he looks fragile and feminine. Thar's why I prefer Browning, without dening Lambie'sl talent or the beauty of his programs. It'a only a matter of perception.
    I voted for Browning, Yagudin and Lambiel.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
  8. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Oh. My. God! this is exactly what I mean!! I can't believe...
  9. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    I can understand that (the "Sad prince") in regard to some programs, but he also has light and energetic programs where he is smiling and flirting a lot ('Tainted Love', 'Let The Good Times Roll', 'Rigoletto', 'Something Got Me Started', 'A Chorus Line') - doesn't look like the ''sad prince" to me at all :D. Also, come to think of it, I wouldn't describe 'Paint It Black' as "the sad prince" either. As for "fragile" and "feminine" - that's more about Lambiel's looks, physique and his natural gracefulness (which is something that he can't help, no matter how many different programs he would try to make), than about his abilities as a performer.

    But that's not exactly the same as "the nice guy", is it :)? Also, see what I wrote to ciocio above.
  10. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    he looks soft, fragile, feminine....he isn't diverse... and yes nice guy, always. but I think it's not bad...
  11. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    There are, but they usually don't win international medals because they focus on dance instead of jumping. Sarah Kawahara, Belita, and Katherine Healy for example. A lot of the "artistic" men mention in their biographies that they were discouraged from going into dance - not so for the women.
  12. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I will try to ask again - what does "diverse", or not "diverse" has to do with one's looks and physique (because Lambiel seems "soft" and "fragile" exactly because of his looks and physique)? I think it has more to do with the style, idea, mood and choreography of the programs. If those are diverse/versatile, then the skater is diverse/versatile. Also, Stephane can look fragile, but is he really that fragile if he can do programs that are not physically easy (because programs that are filled with choreo and steps are not physically easy even without jumps)? Besides, judging by the muscles on his slender arms, he spends quite a lot of time in gym (actually, as a fan I know he does) :D.

    As for what you call "feminine" - yes, there are very few male skaters who use their arms/hands as beautifully and gracefully as Lambiel does. It's one of those things which make him unique, so I can't view that as a minus, even though some people think that it's feminine.

    I don't know if you read my previous response to you (with examples of programs). If you read it, and still think that Lambiel is just a "nice guy", and not diverse, then I have only one conclusion - a male skater has to dress in women's clothing, baby clothes (or both at the same time :D), or in fake muscles costume for you to think that he is diverse ;) :lol:. Sometimes it can be fun, but I am so glad that Stephane will never do that :cool:. Jokes aside, it seems that our ways of thinking and our perceptions are just too different. A few years ago I too thought that Stephane is a beautiful, elegant prince and a dandy who will probably never be something else, but over those past few years I have changed my mind completely, as Stephane continues to surprise me again and again. He has done at least several things that I thought he will never do. Not so long ago I was watching videos of his exhibition programs, and was almost daunted by how different he can be, and even more by the thought of what his body of work will look like in five or so years, as I don't believe that his creative mind will run dry soon. Yes, perceptions are very different.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
  13. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    You emphasize it like other skaters on this poll are not athletic. I think that all skaters who do programs that are physically difficult are athletic, no matter if they are tall or short, broad shouldered, or not so broad shouldered, really "manly" looking, or more of the feminine type. And by physically difficult I don't mean just filled with jumps, but also filled with choreography, moves and steps - such programs are difficult even without multiple jumps.
  14. t.mann

    t.mann New Member

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    Helpful answer.
    Thank you.

    Anyway, men who have entered into this sport with artistic ambitions seem much more than ladies, IMO.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
  15. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    No, not everyone was as athletic as him. :lol: Seems someone's feminine comment touched someone's sensitive spot, hey, that has nothing to do with my posts :lol:
  16. reut

    reut Active Member

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    Of course, nothing to do with your posts, you even posted just recently Cousins's program which is a good example of something people might call feminine in men's skating. :)
  17. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    Really, I saw lots of fans proudly called some skaters balletic in men's skating. ;)
  18. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    You wrote your post some time before that comment. I responded to the posts in reverse order, but that doesn't mean that I read them in that order ;). Anyway, that is what I truly think - the thought that anything else than the difficulty of the programs could define whether a skater is athletic or not seems laughable to me. And I think that all of the skaters in this poll are athletic enough - actually, it's difficult to imagine someone among successful skaters who is not, otherwise they would not be successful.

    Is that necessarily feminine? Men dance in ballet too ;). But reut is right - there are people who think otherwise. In their opinion male ballet dancers are feminine as well.
  19. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    I had no time to watch, I just respond . For me he is too busy on ice, he did too much movements, annoys me,and he lacks of strength. Stef is a bit overact that he is very artistic, he is too much for me. This is matter of taste.
    I also liked better Robin Cousins's skating. I went crazy for him, when I was a very very young girl :)
    ----------

    Alexander Godunov wasn't feminine, and I also don't think that Tsiskaridze was too feminine on stage.
  20. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Maybe reut felt that comment had something to do with your posts though because you praised Cousins earlier for his manly interpretation of a program - as one of his great qualities I suppose - but then shared here another program of his where he hardly epitomizes masculinity in figure skating.;)
  21. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    Oh, in that post, I mean, another person's comment has nothing to do with my posts. That's his/her opinion, I never said anyone was feminine. I praised Cousins for his manly interpretation, does it automatically mean other skaters on the list are feminine? Curious, my posts really look like that?
  22. lily

    lily Member

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    Woohoo how this thread turned into a Lambiel dispute thread :watch:
  23. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    I understand that you had no time to watch, but I described what characters/images he is portraying in those programs - those are not "bad guys", but they are definitely more than just "nice guys".

    You mean he has too much choreography ;)? Anyway, "too much movements" is funny coming from someone who's favorite skater in many people's opinion moves his arms way too much, and also does footwork that often looks too busy and frantic ;). I didn't write that to put him down - I too think that sometimes he overdoes with those things, but I still like and respect him, and also think that those arm movements and footwork is a part of his style. I was just surprised with your comment about "too much movements". As for strength - I can't agree. Stephane has a more fragile body type (the top half at least :)), but in his programs he often does things that are physically difficult and tiring.

    Yes, part if what you said is a matter of taste, but not everything - not about "strength" and "fragile", not about "not diverse", and not really about "nice guy". That is my opinion.

    That comment was not about you. I just know that there are a lot of people who think that both figure skating and ballet are feminine as a whole - they are ignoring the athletic part of it.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
  24. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Originally that was not my intention. I just wrote a comment about Yagudin's skating in some particular shows, and it all started from there :rolleyes:. Unfortunately, I am just one of those people who can't keep silent when other people misunderstand me, or when they say things about my favorites that I don't agree with.
  25. lily

    lily Member

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    I actually read your posts with interest and like that you analyze and argue your statements and don't give only such arguments as "I just like/don't like", "it seems me", "I respond without watching" or :lol:.
  26. DarrellH

    DarrellH New Member

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    Have to go with the crowd on this one...Kurt Browning
  27. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    This is my opinion. You have also opinion on my favorite. You must to accept mine. Lambiel isn't the best skater, only is your favorite. You are biased like me. He has some good qualities. And if you are a real fan of Stef, you know they are very good friends and they respect ech other.
    And yes, my favorite is a real man on ice, he has masculine power, like Joubert's.
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...3577989.169139.497666860283735&type=1&theater
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2013
  28. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    I know that you have your opinion, and I have mine. But I don't have to accept your opinion if I don't agree with it, especially if your "opinion" is based on very superficial things. I am biased too, of course, but that's not how I form my opinions. Or I at least try not to.

    Actually I wouldn't even call your opinion an "opinion" - it's more just your taste. You like more "masculine" skaters than Lambiel, and that is fine. But you could have just said so from the start - there was no need to write that he is not diverse, and that all his programs are "similar" just because he is not in your taste, and because you haven't paid attention to the many things that are different in his programs. But okay, I think we can simply agree to disagree.

    I wrote what many other people think about your favorite skater - that was not my opinion. Although I partially agree, unlike those other people I also see other things in his skating that I like. And I know very well that Lambiel and Plushenko respect each other - I respect Plushenko too.
  29. matti

    matti Active Member

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    Fanny Cradock
  30. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    I respect Lambiel too!!!!:respec: He is among my top ten favorite skaters. But for me this is the diversity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqUBlz5a89s , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vURTGSsm4oo , www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-7c-9GqE3Q and so on...
  31. falling_dance

    falling_dance The Scarlet Unlettered

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    nm
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2013
  32. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    It really has to do with personal preference for a style because I don't see Plushenko's range of programs being more diverse than Lambiel's.

    I honestly thought this thread was about who's the best PRO skater in terms of variety/complexity/quality of programs (skating & movement) rather than this style versus that style.
  33. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    I understand you. Plushenko does dramatic programs, lyrical/romantic programs AND comical programs. Stephane doesn't really do comical programs - he does light and fun programs instead. He has one funny program ('Rigoletto') and funny parts in some other programs ('A Chorus Line', and 'William Tell' which is not a show program), but his approach to comical is - how to say it - not so direct, more sophisticated. I won't be surprised if Stephane will make more funny programs in future, but I also suspect that he will never dress in baby clothes/female dress or in acid colours for a program :D.
  34. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    If you're talking about the Asissai program, then all you say that is one of the fanniest,the most surprising, original, thus the best EX program ever in figure skating history. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzZCc5nQ8-E

    You are right, but probably if we are not arguing with Lauravvv, then this thread would have gone down. Otherwise I voted for Kurt. His pro skating without a doubt is the best. Many skaters have good programs, but Kurt has many unforgettable and brilliant programs.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
  35. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    I don't think Patrick Chan is simply working with Kathy Johnson for skating &movements. Body carriage is always a part of figure skating, someone call it style. Actually, I do feel Plushenko and Lambiel have certain similarities, they both have that flamboyant stuff.
  36. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    hi Unicorn! ;)
  37. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    .
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
  38. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes, you're right, unicorn, that the carriage is often deemed to be part of a person's style. But I was rather thinking along the lines of a more masculine look versus a more graceful/feminine one or an extroverted performer such as Browning or Petrenko or Yagudin versus an introverted one such as Robin Cousins. I always felt that Cousins skated in his own world.
  39. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that one :D. But I didn't mean anything bad. I do think that generally it's an easy trick and an easy way to be funny if a male artist dresses in female clothes, but because of that it's even more difficult to make it truly funny and special, and Plushenko (and his choreographer) managed to do that. Good acting, and I am glad that he didn't just skate his program in ordinary female clothes from start to finish, but made it more interesting - and this is a really inventive costume. I have nothing against that sort of funny programs - in fact, I even like them. I just think that there are also different ways to be funny that don't involve funny costumes/clothes.

    I also agree that it is probably one of the (many) best exhibition programs, but I don't think it's the best ever - especially because it's too difficult to compare it to more serious exhibition programs.

    By the way, if Plushenko gets to skate in the Sochi gala show (which is very possible even if he is not in top five), it would be really great if he would skate that kind of funny program - especially if the show will be a parade of serious and lyrical/romantic programs which is very probable too. That would be fun indeed :D!


    Yes, although some people call it style, it is a part of figure skating that is even included in marks (or it should be, according to the PCS rules).

    I must agree that both Plushenko and Lambiel have their flamboyance indeed - only Lambiel's flamboyance is still more sophisticated and, often, more toned down than Plushenko's.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
  40. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting those. I really liked Yags when he was competing and was happy that he won in 2002. Totally loved his 2001 SP. But I've come to expect more from pro/show skating and want to see a higher level of originality, style, musicality, sophisticated/well constructed/clever choreography. He had eligible programs that played to his strength (power and passion), but I do think he has always been rather one-dimensional and used the same formula in terms of program choices. That's fine with eligible skating but not so much with pro skating. I don't see him nearly as versatile (especially when compared to quite a few on the list) to be a good pro skater. The programs above IMO are like many of the gala programs that we see from competitive skaters: kind of thrown together with rehashed moves. You also don't see him moving differently from the flamenco to the blues. The thing is I think he's first and foremost an athlete and doesn't take show skating that seriously anyway nor does he see show skating as an art form, which is totally fine. Many great champions retired without ever pursuing a pro career. Not meant to bash, my point is really just that one of the best pro skaters he's not.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013