Corrected thread- Best pro male skater

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vash01, Jul 14, 2013.

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(corrected) who is the best male pro skater?- Pick 3

Poll closed Oct 12, 2013.
  1. Brian Boitano

    37 vote(s)
    20.6%
  2. Scott Hamilton

    23 vote(s)
    12.8%
  3. Paul Wylie

    13 vote(s)
    7.2%
  4. Brian Orser

    8 vote(s)
    4.4%
  5. Kurt Browning

    122 vote(s)
    67.8%
  6. Viktor Petrenko

    16 vote(s)
    8.9%
  7. Ilia Kulik

    25 vote(s)
    13.9%
  8. Alexei Yagudin

    27 vote(s)
    15.0%
  9. Jeff Buttle

    26 vote(s)
    14.4%
  10. Stephane Lambiel

    42 vote(s)
    23.3%
  11. Toller Cranston

    10 vote(s)
    5.6%
  12. Other (Specify)

    15 vote(s)
    8.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Milana

    Milana New Member

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    I like them all, I love some of Yagudin's pro numbers too. His lighter and Latino style later should have been very interesting to see in amateur competitions. it's a pity he retired too early. It's pointless to argue whose programs are masterpieces especially when people have different tastes.
     
  2. reut

    reut Active Member

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    With the attitude you have towards skater X (sorry, I didn't really follow all the "fan fights" here, but just to be sure, we're talking about Yagudin, right?) I don't think this will persuade you, but here are two his pro-programs I really liked:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6yGy3G_3YY - Flamenco (created around second half of 2007, I think)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8d0U20sb08 - Blues for klook (created also around 2006-2007 if I'm not mistaken)

    In general I don't understand the need of some fans to bash other skaters to make "their" skater look better (I'm not talking only about the discussion here). Believe me, if "your" skater is indeed good, he is absolutely good, not relatively, no need to prove that others are bad.
     
  3. Milana

    Milana New Member

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  4. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    Lambiel's programs look the same in a way like he's always a sweet sugar. ;). I watched half of his programs listed in the previous post. Yagudin with his more natural, more organic style, also super musicality and emotional, to me more like fresh air. It's my personal impression, you don't have to agree with me. I personally prefer fresh air.
     
  5. reut

    reut Active Member

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    Also they look the same because they all are skated by Lambiel, yes.
    I don't know which half you watched, but I really don't know how the person should watch "My Body is a Cage" and "Paint It Black", for example, to see there "sweet sugar".

    It's normal if you don't like his style of skating and prefer someone's else, we are different, we like different things and prefer different styles (me personally I don't see anything more natural and definitely don't find more musicality in Yagudin, but it's my own opinion). But to argument it with "programs look the same" for his programs, out of all people, is just ridiculous, sorry.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2013
  6. lily

    lily Active Member

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    Thanks for the answer :) Yay that your answer is really funny!
    Yeah, we all see only our favourites and are not able to appreciate others. I many times think if I take someone, who's skating I wasn't very interested, watch and concentrate, maybe I'll discover something completely new and fresh for myself!
     
  7. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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  8. reut

    reut Active Member

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    This is a very-very old group number Ari used with slightly different "cast" since 2010. I won't call it original or choreographically challenging, but it was indeed epic to see those four together. :)
     
  9. t.mann

    t.mann New Member

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    Although I think Lambiel is the second best artistic skater (behind John Curry) & is very versatile, I can understand that someone feels Lambiel's programs look same/similar.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2013
  10. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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  11. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but, unlike others, I can't be short about this.

    What does "sweet sugar" mean for you? Is that light and joyful? Or is it sophisticated and refined? I suppose it must be the second, because 'Don't Stop The Music', 'My Body Is a Cage', 'Paint It Black' and 'Prelude in G minor' are not light and joyful in any way. Even 'Violin Concerto in D Major' and 'Bring Me To Life' are not joyful, although 'Violin Concerto in D Major' was originally meant to be. The ideas and themes of those programs simply don't allow it.

    And what does ''natural" and "organic" mean? You couldn't mean a skater being himself in his programs by that, because Yagudin too has shown different images and played different roles that are not just himself in his programs - the same as Lambiel. And in my opinion a real artist must be able to play different roles, not just be himself. So, what you mean is probably something like a little "rough around the edges" which Yagudin is indeed - as opposed to Lambiel who is sophisticated, refined (although not as much as Curry) and controlled in the sense that practically all of his choreographies/moves are carefully thought out in his programs. But I still can't understand how it is "all the same" when almost each of Lambiel's programs have a different theme/idea, if not the overall style, and different choreography especially created for that particular music, style and theme. With a few "one day" exceptions (like 'Last Dance') his programs are not just rearrangements of the same elements and moves to different music as show programs of some other skaters tend to be. Of course, there are moves that Lambiel uses in several of his programs, but I don't think that there is a skater who doesn't have such moves or steps.

    As for the light, joyful and "sweet" programs - well, actually they are very natural to Lambiel, probably more so than other programs. As his fan who has "followed" him for years I understand that it's how he really is. Of course, he is also different, and probably some of that shows in his other programs.

    And are you kidding me? Lambiel not musical? Not emotional? Perhaps you didn't mean it like that, but it seemed like you are saying that Yagudin is musical and emotional, but Lambiel is not. I agree that Yagudin is musical too, but in what way he is more musical than Lambiel who has his every move connected to the music (and choreographed so that it would accentuate the music)? I think that both of them are emotional, just showing it in different ways. Yagudin shows emotions with energetic movements, but when he tries to show them also on his face, I feel like it's sometimes a bit over the top (that's only my personal feeling, of course). Lambiel, on the other hand, shows emotions both with his movements and expressions without being over the top. That's one of the things that I love about him - he is never so completely calm as Curry or Robin Cousins could be (and most often were) - even when there is a moment of calm, intensity and passion is still simmering just below the surface. It is s not always all out, but it's there.

    Despite my long rant I understand that if some artist's performance doesn't touch (or "catch" :)) one instantly, then there is no desire to try to look deeper. And it is only normal - I am no different, although I like to at least try to understand what other people see in artists whom I don't instantly like. I am not trying to persuade you or someone else to do that, just trying to understand your very general and vague statements.


    I must say sorry for this to other people on this thread, but unicorn's answer really surprised me, and I felt like I had to clarify some things - or at least try to clarify them, as I am not sure if she/he will answer me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2013
  12. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    I was so relieved that my super long post was over (not that anyone forced me to write it :D) that I forgot to add some things. Good things this time.

    I wanted to say that I am glad that there are so many great skaters with such different styles. The (skating) world would be a boring place indeed if all the skaters were alike. It's so wonderful - being able to watch and appreciate skaters who are very different and skate in different styles/manners. I love Curry, but I love Browning equally, although they are very different. I love Lambiel, but I also like Plushenko, no matter how strange it can seem to some Lambiel fans. There are many more examples - also from female skaters, ice dancers and pairs.

    And I like Yagudin too for that matter, if that was not clear. Despite what I said there are some programs from the recent years that I like. 'Bumbarash' is certainly one of them. I quite like his more recent 'Burn my Shadow' program too. And then some earlier ones - 'Flamenco' and 'Blues for Klook' that reut posted. And from even more earlier ones - 'The Feeling Begins'/'Passion', 'Moon Over Bourbon Street'. As I wrote, Yagudin's recent programs don't excite me that much, and I almost always feel like something is missing from them, but that doesn't mean that I don't like them.
     
  13. ChelleC

    ChelleC Well-Known Member

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    Browning, Boitano, and Lambiel.
     
  14. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    I do. So similar... and always the nice guy..those are the most exciting things what he is doing in backstage. No, I was wrong, I saw a program that was very excitnig, he was with some girls..
     
  15. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    Interpret it whatever way you like. I found I just lost the interest to reply to your post seriously.
    Once again, I disagree with your crap,,,sorry your opinion, about Yagudin. Fortunately, how you feel the interpretation of music by different people is subjective, while musicality and sophistication are objective, that's actually something you can visibly see. That would have been the 9th wonder of the world if he could step on each beat of the music by chance every time without that musicality and total control of his blades.
    who cares who you really like, it's that some people keep posting those non-factual things about certain skaters to mislead people makes me feel it's just so low.
    And hey, here's another program of Yagudin's, I didn't see any of his facial expression, but they lift the audiences to their feet again.

    Romance by Yagudin and his partner
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqkzOUMDa5c
     
  16. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    As to Yagudin's keep performing his Olympic programs, I really hope all skaters can have that kind of legendary performance, can let people still keep asking him to perform them in various shows after many years. I really sincerely do.
     
  17. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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  18. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    Thanks for posting, I was thinking about post his videos too, but I thought lots of people might have seen his skating, seems he's quite famous on this board.
    Speaking of gushing people, I found Scott Hamilton beat us all

    If you want to see fine skating, beautiful interpretation of music and yet manly, watch him. He's such a tall guy, but look at those soft knees.

    I like this one too
    Robin Cousins "Satan Takes A Holiday"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a7sSuPpmcc
     
  19. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    ^^^
    No skater had the "range" of programs over a long career that Robin did.
    His performance of "Satan Takes A Holiday" at the 1985 World Pro was even better than this one.
     
  20. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. I've seen both of those programs (among many others) and 'Satan Takes A Holiday' which unicorn posted, and I certainly agree about Robin :). I voted for him in the original poll where he was included.

    What is funny, I never really disagreed with unicorn about Yagudin, but for some reason she/he just seems intent on reading something that is not even there.
     
  21. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    It's obvious that you are not sorry. Probably I should have called your opinion "crap" too instead of trying to explain why I can't agree with your "opinions" about Lambiel? Perhaps then you would understand me better? Otherwise it seems that we are talking in two very different languages. But I still want to know - what did I write that is so "misleading" and "low"? Me liking Yagudin's recent show programs, but not being as excited about them as I was about his earlier programs and his programs from the TV shows? Or me agreeing that Yagudin is musical? Because I sure as hell didn't say that Yagudin is not musical. How could I when I don't think that? I really have no idea where did you read that. I didn't even say that Lambiel is more musical than Yagudin, just that he is not less musical - I don't see how is that low. It's your problem that you can't read and understand properly.

    As for "rough around the edges" - for me it is nothing negative. Yes, probably I used the wrong expression in this case, but English is not my native language, and I don't know how to say it better. Another way to say it could be that Yagudin's skating can seem less refined and controlled, and more unrestrained. Not that I think that Lambiel's skating is really restrained. Anyway, I was just trying to guess what you meant by "natural" and "organic", and to have a discussion instead of an argument. Unfortunately, you don't want to have a discussion, and you don't want to explain, so I will remain unknowing.

    One more thing about "misleading". You accuse me of writing "non-factual" and "misleading" things, but your "opinions" that all of Lambiel's programs are "the same" and "sweet sugar" are much more superficial and misleading than anything that I said about Yagudin. I wouldn't be surprised if you don't want to explain yourself simply because you can't.

    I liked this program when I watched it on TV, and I still like it - just as many other programs that they skated in the 'Ice Age' show. It's Yagudin's solo programs that don't excite me that much anymore (although I like almost all of them), not his TV show programs together with Lanskaya.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2013
  22. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Again, a very superficial statement. How are Run, Paint It Black, Let The Good Times Roll, Prelude in G minor, Rigoletto, My Body Is a Cage, A Chorus Line and Don't Stop The Music so similar? You can't judge just by the genre of music (classical, jazz, or so on), or by costume. Yes, Lambiel has never played a real "bad guy", but "the nice guy" doesn't cover someone who feels like his body is a cage, and is trying to break free ('My Body Is a Cage'), a drunk man after a night in the club ('Don't Stop The Music'), a soldier who dares to dream of a softer life just for a moment, but can't really allow himself to feel emotions ('Prelude in G minor'), someone who feels that there is darkness in his soul ('Paint It Black'), or a narcissistic duke ('Rigoletto').

    Lambiel is not the only skater in this poll who has played different roles in his programs, but not really a "bad guy" - the same can be said of Browning, Buttle and others. Talking about skaters who are not a part of this poll, I somehow don't remember any programs where your favorite skater (Plushenko, of course) plays a real bad guy, although he has played different roles too. But I wouldn't say that all of his programs are similar because of that. "good guy" versus "bad guy" is really very simplified and superficial.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
  23. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    Simply post videos to wash my eyes
    Speaking of dancing, versatile, and athleticism all together, this guy is simply not human, that's why he doesn't belong to this poll.
    Robin Cousins skates to Julian Lloyd Webber's music
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt7uF7pFQ04&list=PL034C78319BCE7705



    And there's a whole bunch of his videos on that channel.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2013
  24. t.mann

    t.mann New Member

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    Amazing.

    Among ladies, why isn't there true artists such as Curry, Cousins, Lambiel?
    M.y.s.t.e.r.y.
     
  25. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    I notice your order changed, Lambiel is not just 2nd to Curry now? As far as I know, there are quite some beautiful performances from women's discipline too.
     
  26. t.mann

    t.mann New Member

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    lol. Your eyes are sharp. ;)

    But Lambiel is yet the 2nd artist for me.
    Cousins is more versatile. But I can not ignore Lambiel's uniqueness(Lambielesque-) which will stand out still after many many years.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
  27. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    There is an interesting comment on Youtube " Lambiel always looks like the Sad Prince to me". It is exactly what I feel too when I watch him, no matter the program, to me he looks fragile and feminine. Thar's why I prefer Browning, without dening Lambie'sl talent or the beauty of his programs. It'a only a matter of perception.
    I voted for Browning, Yagudin and Lambiel.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
  28. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Oh. My. God! this is exactly what I mean!! I can't believe...
     
  29. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    I can understand that (the "Sad prince") in regard to some programs, but he also has light and energetic programs where he is smiling and flirting a lot ('Tainted Love', 'Let The Good Times Roll', 'Rigoletto', 'Something Got Me Started', 'A Chorus Line') - doesn't look like the ''sad prince" to me at all :D. Also, come to think of it, I wouldn't describe 'Paint It Black' as "the sad prince" either. As for "fragile" and "feminine" - that's more about Lambiel's looks, physique and his natural gracefulness (which is something that he can't help, no matter how many different programs he would try to make), than about his abilities as a performer.

    But that's not exactly the same as "the nice guy", is it :)? Also, see what I wrote to ciocio above.
     
  30. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    he looks soft, fragile, feminine....he isn't diverse... and yes nice guy, always. but I think it's not bad...