Coaching Fees

Discussion in 'Moves In The Field' started by flashing blade, Apr 17, 2011.

  1. flashing blade

    flashing blade New Member

    4
    0
    0
    What do you honestly feel about coaching fees,to dear,to cheap.Say a fiver for a patch ,perhaps 17 pound coaching half a hour.Will these prices have a effect on the future of coaches or even the rinks.How is it effecting you,your parents,anything.Let me know.Say whatever you feel,i have a thick skin.Dancing on ice is over now apart from the tour are the rinks going quiet.
     
  2. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    3,323
    804
    113
    It surely depends on the coach. I think my coach is well worth it. She is brilliant. If she increased her prices I would still be happy to pay it. Then again, I know some coaches which I wouldn't want them to teach me even if they were asking half of what they are asking for.
     
  3. flashing blade

    flashing blade New Member

    4
    0
    0
    Hi hanca thank you for your reply.I also know a few coaches that are not worth the fee.I have seen a few hold on to talented skaters instead of passing them on when it is obvious that they can teach them no more.But of course there are many exceptional coaches out there.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2011
  4. joe

    joe New Member

    165
    7
    0
    I`m not sure if you now have a gripe with a coach as in your last thread you had one with a couple of skaters? (the young man whom you said was unhappy with the `cut throat operation` was in fact unhappy with himself and his apparent longstanding stupidity and no mudslinging was necessary at his ex-partner and for this he is certainly not happy as he considers her blameless and her a great friend…good old facebook normally great for starting rumours BUT this time for being told the truth).

    But for the sake that I may be wrong I will answer your question.

    Ice skating is an extremely expensive sport, with coaches fee`s, patch ice and if you wish competitions, costumes and travelling. With a coaches fee`s you have to remember that most coaches are self employed and so they aren`t exactly pocketing the `perhaps 17 pound` coaching fee you mentioned, they will either be paying up to £5000 a year to their rink in rent, or 20% of their earnings to the rink or in fact be employed by the rink. Those who pay rent or a percentage then have to consider sick leave of both themselves and their pupils, holidays, cancellations by pupils, mega sessions by rinks where they lose ice time, camps by rinks and again lose lesson time, time away at competitions, unsocial able hours and of course they then must pay for public liability yearly, their license to NISA and seminars and so their `fee` will come down considerably.

    Although I do think the fee`s should be charged differently in the UK for the Level and experience of a coach, not all level 2 coaches are alike, there are levels in the levels!! i.e.: some level 2 coaches can only teach a certain level of skater whereas an experienced level 2 coach with a certain amount of test passes moves up the rank of level 2 within NISA and therefore some level 2 coaches may only ever coach beginners and then pass their pupils to a more experienced/higher level coach, therefore I think the fee`s should emphasise this by being staggered.

    You seem to hint that you think the future of ice rinks is in danger in the UK? I`m sure this can be a worry to management but with the economic climate this can be expected and as far as the fees are concerned these haven`t actually increased with the rate of inflation. There are 3 new ice rinks planned over the next couple of years in the UK (I`m sure someone will of done their homework for these) and a new one already opened in Thornton Cleve leys, we have the Winter Olympics in 3 years which like Dancing On Ice will bring out the skaters in many!!
     
    hanca and (deleted member) like this.
  5. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

    18,129
    2,163
    113
    Well coaches who try to teach way above what they are capable of is a perpertual problem in the sport. I have known coaches who told parents that they were going to teach students triple jumps when it was quite clear that she didn't have the capability nor skill to do it. And unfortunately the parents don't know enough to know any better or the coach is great at doing a sales job on them.

    However what can you do about it?

    As for what coaches charge, well they earn their living from it and even though they may charge above the standard hourly pay rate that other people might earn, it could be that they only coach for a few hours a day. And it could be that they teach on weekends and teach 6 days of the week because that is where the teaching opportunities are.

    Having said that, after the new rink here opened in Melbourne last year the coaches were employed by the rink. Which from my perspective it made sure that the coaches were under the control of the rink and that they couldn't rip skaters and parents off.
     
  6. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    3,748
    1,646
    113
    The adult class at my rink had loads of new enrollers during Dancing on Ice and they have all remained, for now. It will be interesting to see how many stick it out come renewal time, however, every year the adult group grows as a result of Dancing on Ice and at the very least half a dozen if not more continue to skate through the summer. I'm fairly sure the coaches are pleased as they pick up private lessons from the skaters wanting to improve.

    As to prices for lessons, I think they are reasonably pitched by most coaches. Prices are comparable to other one-to-one learning situations including things like lessons for musical instruments. I'd also assume that private tutors to help children in school must be somewhere in the same region too, but not having kids I have no idea (but a quick google search in my area is showing anything from £25 - £35 per hour depending on exam level the child is taking etc).
     
  7. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    3,323
    804
    113
    I think coaches are like any other professionals; there are some very good ones around, and some who don't really care so much. However, I do believe that most of them do care. Most of them spent all their childhood trying to learn some skills which to most people don't come easy. That says a lot about their character, perservance, strong will... I have a lot of respect for them. (well, for most of them)
     
  8. Imperfect Edge

    Imperfect Edge New Member

    391
    8
    0
    Yea I think coaches do mostly try fairly hard. Some are better than others naturally. Not sure varying the prices would help a great deal although I guess it provides an incentive for coaches to apply and work through the levels which is I guess a good thing.

    I think at Sheffield they vary the prices according to the coaching level.

    But yea its all very pricey. I remember the days when I would save my pocket money to afford extra lessons :) I think if you considered the end pay packet of the coaches its not great. They all have to be partly doing it for the love of the job - otherwise they'd take a normal job where you weren't having the nightmares of sorting out your tax, loosing money on sick days, etc etc

    At most rinks I think the lessons prices are same across board so coaches can't charge what they like. I have more issue with the varying costs and lack of regulation on charges for things like competitions/tests etc where costs vary a lot more.
     
  9. misskarne

    misskarne #408

    6,392
    1,352
    113
    That's the same system we have at Phillip :) (And I visited the Icehouse when in Melbourne earlier in the year - fabulous facility.)

    I don't think anyone should be worried about the future of ice rinks just because of a TV show. Hell, if the nature of the sport was that fickle Australia would have NO ice rinks at all! Our Dancing on Ice flopped years ago.

    I actually interviewed the president of my state association about this, and she said while they do see an increase in numbers in Olympic years, the numbers are usually quite steady. Certainly they don't dip low enough between Olympics for any serious concern.
     
  10. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

    18,129
    2,163
    113
    Although when Dancing on Ice was on, we saw a noticeable increase in the numbers who took up skating here in Melbourne. And with the advent of the Icehouse in Melbourne it has led to an increase in numbers as well.

    Unfortunately the company that owns the rink (not rink management) have cut back on the most of the ice sports and replaced those sessions with public sessions because they think those will make money for them. There are really now no evening figure sessions, only in the morning. Currently I have lost any opportunity to have lessons with my coaches because even though coaches can coach during public sessions, they are currently not allowed to coach in the evenings which is the only time I can get there. Hopefully that will change soon though (fingers crossed).
     
  11. Sk8Kate

    Sk8Kate New Member

    167
    35
    0
    I think all of the assessments in this thread are right on. As in any business, there are professionals who are well worth the fees they charge, and then there are those who rip people off. I coach part time in the US, and with my credentials I could probably charge more than I do, but I also know how expensive skating is, so I'd rather charge a bit less and have clients who will stick with me because they realize they are getting a good deal. There are also coaches who have very few tests/ratings and I don't understand why they charge as much as they do - perhaps because they see that's what others charge. Few people in skating are as educated as FSU-ers are, so not everyone knows that they should look into a coach's credentials and ask why that coach charges what they do. Clients should always know what they are getting for their money, but I think sometimes the less ethical coaches out there may just pounce on the families who may not know any better than to question their rates. (I try to give each client a copy of my coaching resume so they will know what they are getting when they take a lesson, but that's just me. YMMV.)

    Although the high school kids who work the front desk and the concession stand at the rink are convinced I'm raking in the dough, they forget that I really only teach a few hours a week. The rink takes a percentage of what I earn as a commission, and I have to pay for my PSA membership, professional liability insurance, USFS membership, skate sharpening, and taking ratings tests and/or attending seminars all out of my own pocket. Also, as most coaches are self-employed, we get hit with a self-employment tax each year. (Not sure how this works in other countries, but here, salaried jobs will automatically take out a portion of your income for taxes, medicare, social security, insurance, etc. Being self-employed, that money doesn't get taken out automatically, so I get hit with a big tax fee for those items instead.) Yes, if I could coach for 8 hours a day, I would be doing very well, but that is something that very few coaches can do. Not every town is a hot-bed of skating, nor does every town have jobs where people can afford skating lessons. So we don't actually make as much of a profit as people may assume.

    There are always clients who cancel lessons or need to switch to a different day because of a conflict, so I'm forever rearranging my schedule. Whenever times get tough, skating lessons are one of the first things that people cut out of their budget. I had a lot of clients cut back around Christmas time as they needed to save the money for the holidays, not taking into consideration that I may be counting on that coaching income to finance my holidays as well. (I'm not saying that it should be their consideration, of course, but I'm just using that as an example.)

    So... I think that the fees kind of go both ways. If a coach isn't worth it, don't take from them. Those who are worth it, can prove it. And always ask! Any coach worth their salt should be able to explain what certifications they have that allow them to charge what they do.
     
  12. flashing blade

    flashing blade New Member

    4
    0
    0
    Hi Aussie Willy.I hope soon that your coaches will be allowed soon to coach in the evenings. Its a shame that at the moment they are not allowed to. Must at the moment be very hard for you. Suggest next time a representative of company that owns the rink is in town a few of your skating friends and coaches have a quiet word with them in a quiet corner.A little pressure perhaps will help i hope. Good luck,and i hope soon you are flashing across the ice with your coach.
    Thankyou to everyone who has replied to this thread,i have found it very interesting to hear from different areas of the world, how rinks operate and how hard coaches work to train what i class as tremendously exciting athletes.I have seen the tremendous efforts put in by coaches and skaters,the ice burns,the bruises,the tears the sheer effort by both sides to become possible champions of the future.So coaches keep on coaching ,skaters keep going for it,you know that the dream may be possible.And even if the dream does not happen its a tremendous achievement to be able to move across the ice on those small thin pieces of metal,called blades.I think so anyway.
     
  13. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

    2,342
    472
    83
    It depends on what you want from a coach. If you are only looking for a weekly lesson in basic skills, then no, an expensive coach is not necessary. If you are looking for a coach to do multiple weekly lessons, choreography, go to competitions with you, and guide your off-ice training then you will need someone who is seriously committed to coaching and that person will cost more than someone who is coaching as a hobby.