Coaching changes for better or worse?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by The Accordion, Jul 11, 2010.

  1. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

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    Not that I think it is a disaster, but I'd like to point out that before Abbott went to Sato, he won a Grand Prix (Cup of China 2008), GP Final 2008, and US Championship 2009. His season under Sato (2009-2010) was not massively improved from the previous. He won Skate Canada, yes, but was second in the free skate behind Takahashi, who had no quad at the competition. His placement at 2010 Worlds was indeed better. Nevertheless, one should take into consideration that Lysacek was not present, Verner had a horrendous season, and the Japanese skaters with the exception of Takahashi had a meltdown.
     
  2. ponta1

    ponta1 Active Member

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    True, however, I think Yuka Sato brought out something in his skating that wasn't there before. I enjoy watching him now, whereas before, I thought he was a little flat.
     
  3. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    deleted because I have no idea what I'm talking about!

    (at least I'm honest)
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2010
  4. Indra486

    Indra486 Well-Known Member

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    Yu-na Kim to Orser - she was able to live up to her talent and stay off injuries for the most part.

    Shizuka to Tarasova - she won her world title and while her following season was a disaster, that was from her lack of motivation

    Shizuka to Morozov - the partnership was relatively short but he was able to get her to peak at the Torino.
     
  5. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    So who should had Johnny gone to? He couldn't stay with Priscilla, he no longer listened to her.
     
  6. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    ^ TARASOVA. It would have been expensive for Johnny, but it would also not have been a cheap substitute.
     
  7. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    I totally agree. I love what TATdid for Sasha, Yag's. Arakawa and even Mao. I think that a lot of people dont like that Tarasova likes bold, fiery, robustand sometimes dark music. With Cohen, she did wonders. Sasha's jumps were better, tighter and she was amazingly trained. Tarasova cant fix the psychological side. Also, she packaged Shizuka extremely well.
     
  8. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    TAT brought out the best in Kulik and Yagudin, I am sure she could have done the same to Weir. But Weir probably wouldn't fully listen to her either. Didn't she want him to skate to Liebstraum in 2006? Instead he chose to take inspiration from Slutskaya's trashy "feed the chicken" program, before finally falling back to Otonal :scream:

    Like Galina, TAT would probably focus on having Weir go clean, but I am sure she could have added some fire and some highlight to his skating too. You gotta admit, as trashy as his recent Olympic outfits were, the actual skating was very dull.
     
  9. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Richard Callahan always get the short end of the stick when it comes to Shizuka's World title. IMO, he deserves way more credit than TT for this.


    But Shizuka didn't peak at Torino. Peaking means that she skated her best. She didn't. It was adequate to get the job done when the favorites imploded but it did not compare to her 2004 World winning performance.
     
  10. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    All the programs TAT did for Johnny were is every way superior to the cramp after 2005-06.

    ETA: Even this long abandoned program has a look and feel that makes me feel like I am watching :wuzrobbed JOHNNY WEIR :(

    Johnny Weir 2005 Japan International Challenge LP

    Johnny Weir - US Nats 2006 - LP Selections by Maksim Mrvica
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2010
  11. Indra486

    Indra486 Well-Known Member

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    Very true. A very bad oversight on my part. :duh:
     
  12. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    It's being reported that Mingzhu Li is going back to China, and all of her students need to find another coach.
     
  13. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    :eek:

    Will she quit coaching?
     
  14. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    Apparently, she accepted a position with the Chinese federation. I'm not sure if she will actually be coaching.
     
  15. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to veer OT, but now I'm intrigued about who will coach CZ if this is indeed true...And if true, this may be a blessing in disguise for CZ: Being forced to another coach who may not put up with any B.S. from pupil or mom.
     
  16. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    The reports are that Caroline is now being coached by Tammy Gambill.

    EDIT : bad spelling :)
     
  17. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    HMMM. never heard of her. Can anyone surmise if this is a good thing/bad thing/wait and see?
     
  18. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Here's the source thread for the Caroline Zhang / Tammy Gambill / Mingzhu Li hearsay info where discussion is ongoing: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=72595&page=24
     
  19. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    The only way Johnny could had gone to Tarasova is if she moved to the United States. Johnny had said he wanted to train with someone in Russia and the usfs objected.
     
  20. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

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    Not quite a change, since he was still with Lee, but I found that when Jeff Buttle added Rafael Aratunian to his coaching team his speed and triple axel improved, so that was an improvement in his coaching.

    Nobu leaving Lee Barkell for Nikolai Morozov = bad move. Nobu leaving Morozov to go back to Barkell for the upcoming season makes me :respec::biggrinbo:cheer2::40beers::D
     
  21. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    In his blog, he said it was about money.
     
  22. skating_sarah11

    skating_sarah11 New Member

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    I totally agree. Sometimes skaters need to seek opinions of other coaches, and make things a team approach - if that is what is best for them, they will know quickly. This is why so many clubs (Mariposa being a prime example) pride themselves on their team approach to coaching. A lot of skaters need to be told something by multiple people before they will trust the words.

    However, sometimes a total coach change is what you need. (ie. when Barkell had Buttle, Russell, Langlois/Hayes, Jamie Forsythe, the Dolemans and Moscovitches all under his coaching, it was too much and some had to leave because Buttle and Langlois/Hayes were getting all the attention).
     
  23. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    Abott going to Sato and Takahashi leaving Morozov were the best latest I can think of!
     
  24. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

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    Really? When he was with Morosov, I always felt he deserved better choreography. Lots of flash with not much in between. I much preferred his programs from Camerlengo and Miyamoto.
     
  25. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I don't consider Abbott's coaching change as among the best or worst. I thought he traded one coach with one set of strengths for another with a different set of strengths.

    Living on his own was a smart decision though
     
  26. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    In an interview right after Johnny switched to Galina, he said he made a list of possible coaches but his mom and the federation both said no to him moving to Russia to be coached.
     
  27. Fallcolor

    Fallcolor New Member

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    Miyamoto and Camerlengo are just as amazing choreographers; their personalities are a great match. His SP by Miyamoto was my favourite men's SP last year, ... I loved his LP by Camerlengo too even if it was not as good the short.

    With Morozov, i felt maybe, he was already breaking through after 2008, and thought his partnership with Morozov reminded me of Yagudin's progression under TAT/Morozov. Cyber Swan was legendary, and loved his EX to Bachelorette! Can't think of any other 2 programs that displayed such the beauty of his skating! Loved the original choreography. which is why i wonder what Morozov would have given him the following season had they not split. And i don't think Morozov is a cookie cutter choreographer at all. He knows which skaters are talented, and caters to their abilities. (most of them time!) Again, he reminded so much of Yagudin so i must wonder what would have happened if they continued.

    But thank god, after he left Morozov, he decided on getting 2 of the more exciting choreographers to make his Olympic programs! He definitely has good taste :hat1:
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2010
  28. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

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    I think Miyamoto was the one who choreographed the Bachelorette exhibition (which I agree was freakin' awesome.) I liked the Cyber Swan SP that Morosov gave him, but I felt he didn't really know what to do with Daisuke in the LPs.

    Yes! I love the Amelie program; can't wait to see the new SP.
     
  29. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    I meant he changed for better, not that previous coaching was bad. After 2008 season he needed only forward to go. I think that Sato put Abott in another level, this year he looked more matured and his programs had strong personality, he stood out great! Except for the couple of meltdowns..

    Takahashi techno swan was really a great idea of Morozov, this was a hit. Morozov is better in sps, maybe Oda's chaplin is an exception, In Morozov era was also romeo and juliet of Takahashi?? But still since he left him, he looks more confident and with control of his own skate:encore:
     
  30. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    But that's exactly my point. His old coach has experience Sato doesn't have, but she may be a better match for Jeremy in some ways. I think it's just like with all teachers we've had in life isn't it? Some teachers are good at something; others at other things, it's hard to say who's better for Jeremy. Besides, no one knows for sure how a skater would have progressed if the change had not been made, nor do we know Jeremy's progress is due to change of scene or change of coach or even change of heart.

    Given how the discussion goes, I think the jury is still out on Sato.

    Jeremy has all the tech. goods to win, so I suspect it's really up to him at this point, so I don't think Tom Z. vs. Sato is the ultimate difference in his skating. That said, living on his own and all that perhaps will make a difference.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2010