Cinquanta Wants to Eliminate Short Programs

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by reese, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. Cyn

    Cyn Well-Known Member

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    If it didn't carry a felony charge, I would say that putting a contract out on this asshole wouldn't be a bad idea :sekret:.
     
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  2. Dr.Siouxs

    Dr.Siouxs Well-Known Member

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    Says the glock lady. :scream:
     
  3. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I think violence is not going to win the battle of ideas. ;) That was pretty much all that Skate Fair had going for it.
     
  4. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

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    Er, I suspect even a backtracked threat like that could get sharpie and the board in legal trouble.
     
  5. Cyn

    Cyn Well-Known Member

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    That was not what I was implying anyone should do in real life -- the fact that even conspiring to do so is a felony (which I mentioned) negates any type of a threat.
     
  6. Xela M

    Xela M Active Member

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    It has also recently become Russia's most beloved winter sport :lol:
     
  7. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    The short program was created in the seventies to give free skating more weight vs. figures. Now figures are gone and the free skate is full of requirements similar to the short program. I think what is missing from skating now is a program that lets skaters freely interpret the music, but an interpretive program leaves lots of room for judging scandals. The thrust in skating is away from entertainment to competitive sport and competitve sport demands quantifiable results. With all the emphasis on jumping I wouldn't be surprised if that becomes a separate event one day with specialized skates and training, and no music or costume.
     
  8. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about redefining, but I could live with renaming. I don't know how this word works in other languages, but in English, senior commonly refers to people over 60 or 65 in a general context or, in sports, to older athletes who now compete in a different circuit from the very best. I think tennis and golf both have Senior tours where competitors have to be over 40 or so. In skating, I think this level is called Adult (which is itself a funny commentary on how old/mature they think senior skaters are).

    Still I guess having Seniors who are younger than Adults kind of fits in a world where sections are bigger than regions. (I mean, how many regions can you fit into a 1 mile square block?)
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2014
  9. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    You kind of misquoted me there. The craziest thing I was talking about was anonymous judges. The senior age category pull quote was in a separate paragraph.

    I still think if they are renaming an age category, junior is the one that is confusing.
     
  10. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for bringing this to my attention. My apologies. There were spaces between each thing and I didn't recognize that the comment went with the bit above instead of the bit below. I've edited that part out now.

    What is confusing about juniors is not the name. Juniors is pretty standard terminology for the level below the big time. What makes it confusing is that athletes in the right age range are allowed to pick their level competition by competition. There was a proposal a couple years ago that skaters could not go back to juniors in the same season once they competed as seniors and that would have helped, at least for international competitors. I was sorry it wasn't adopted.
     
  11. Morry Stillwell

    Morry Stillwell Well-Known Member

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    Real class?
     
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  12. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I think what is confusing about juniors is that it is used to name an age level and a skill level. It needs to decide what it wants to be.
     
  13. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    Is that not also true for the earlier levels or do ages come into it only for juniors and seniors?

    BTW, it is totally unnecessary to off Speedy at this point. His term of office will be expiring soon and he is too old to stand for re-election. (Too old is not a value judgement on my part, it's in the ISU regulation. You know the ISU; they love their age limits.)
     
  14. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I think (international) novice has an age cut-off; and like I said in my first post- it might just be a US issue; but it seems there is a lot of confusion because skaters who are junior by age are skating senior by test.

    So in the US they skate at senior nationals, but then get sent to JGP and Junior Worlds- and people cry foul because the "junior skaters" (the test level) aren't given a chance to skate the junior events. But if the age categories were called squares for 16+ and circles for younger than 21 only. Then no one would say "it isn't fair the senior skaters are getting all the circle events". The use of the word junior to mean two different things creates a lot of controversy.

    I would be supportive of saying that, although the categories overlap, once you skate in square events, you can't go skate in circle ones anymore. Or you can't skate circle and square events in the same year.

    Maybe the problem exists for novice internationals, but I don't think the US participates in many, so I don't know the problem.


    I don't know what the ISU proposes to fix changing the name of senior. I don't think anyone hears senior events and thinks "hmm- must be the senior citizens". At least, I've never heard that confusion. I know of people who have been very confused to hear of novices and then seen very very good skaters, as they expected rank beginners.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2014
  15. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    There's also the complication in Canada th√Ęt a skater or team that wins a level at Nationals can't repeat that level and won't necessarily be age-eligible for the Nationals level in international competition.
     
  16. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

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    In the U.S., there are no age restrictions for competing at the Novice level and above in qualifying competitions (including Nationals is the skater qualifies).
     
  17. amaro

    amaro Active Member

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    Shut up Speedy. Just fix the anonymous judging.
     
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  18. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    For those on Facebook, a page was set up called Save The Short Program.
     
  19. ehdtkqorl123

    ehdtkqorl123 New Member

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    Figure Skating Fans Wants to Eliminate Cinquanta
     
  20. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

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    I kind of agree with this - I'd like to see them try something like making the SP for required elements, and the FP "free" in the sense that no elements are specified. However, the marking TES/PCS remains the same. So you would be marked on whatever you do. If you do only 3 elements, you'll be marked on those 3. But your mark would be lower than someone who chooses to do 5.

    Im thinking mostly of dance because that's what I enjoy the most, but for instance it would give you more freedom to use elements that would suit the program and the music [esp good for selecting step sequences I think] , and make each program very different looking.
     
  21. N_Halifax

    N_Halifax Well-Known Member

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  22. Visaliakid

    Visaliakid Well-Known Member

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    The following was posted by Ron Pfenning (candidate for President, U.S. Figure Skating) on his Facebook Page...

    A posting from Bill Fauver in response to ISU president's recent letter to ISU elected officials. Bill's letter was addressed to our USFS ISU Rep and ISU Council member and others.

    Bill Fauver (Former U.S. Pairs Skater and ISU office holder for a decade)
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2014
  23. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    Meanwhile, deafening silence from USFSA, Skate Canada and any other federation, unless it has been really quiet.
     
  24. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

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    I have wondered what the Feds were thinking about this. Maybe they just think he is spouting BS.
     
  25. Morry Stillwell

    Morry Stillwell Well-Known Member

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    The Federations have the final say at the Congress and do not need to get involved with any blog.
     
  26. Rae35

    Rae35 Active Member

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    The federations send representatives from their country to the Congress. Each of those representative are elected and they should be aware of their participants' views. Once upon a time, those views would be expressed via a letter or phone call. Now it's blogs, emails and forums such as this, where many points of view are aired. USA and Camada taking a leading hand would be good for the sport in my opinion. It would seem at least that those two organisations have a strategic plan, which I doubt the ISU does .... Or if it does, it's not communicated.
     
  27. Morry Stillwell

    Morry Stillwell Well-Known Member

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    If you want change, join a club, become a member of your Club&#8217;s delegation to the AGM (Canada) or the Governing Council (US Figure Skating. Convince your club to present proposals to the ISU Congress that would accomplish your ideas. Anonymous posts of complaints will never accomplish anything.
     
  28. Rae35

    Rae35 Active Member

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    Hear, Hear! Couldn't agree with you more Morry Stillwell. Well said and advised.
     
  29. N_Halifax

    N_Halifax Well-Known Member

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    I spoke with Bill Fauver on the phone this AM and interviewed him. We talked about this Facebook post and the politics of this whole situation - very interesting. He was involved with USFS governance for years and has a fascinating perspective. Will likely have it up on the blog in the AM before work. :)
     
  30. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Democracy does require comment.

    I just hope those committed to both figure skating and speed skating do not stand by while both sports get hacked apart under the guise of innovation to cover the negligence and/or ineptitude of the international leadership that squandered all the money from 1994-2006 for the sake of their own vanity.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014