Cinquanta Wants to Eliminate Short Programs

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by reese, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    4,878
    For further insight into the mind of Speedy, check out his columns in ISU newsletters (here's the most recent one). It's like he's writing a parody of himself.

    As for his suggestions, of course other sports are based on more than one segment, anonymous judging sucks, and short programs are not a waste of time. Free programs are a waste of time, because they are no longer free. Change it back and make it more free, problem solved.

    Combining junior and senior worlds might be nice for the skaters but a huge headache for organizers, and regardless I fail to see why that should be a goal. Most sports don't do that, and since it is so clearly Speedy's goal to be like other sports, that should be a paramount consideration. :rolleyes:
  2. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,226
    Agreed. I don't know how much power the individual feds have, but if they work together to get rid of this moron who has been destroying FS for years, perhaps it could be done. Aren't the feds that elect the ISU president?
  3. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    9,104
    He should be eliminated. And then sent to American idol and eliminated for a second time because the shit deserves it.
  4. love skating

    love skating Clueless American

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    2,186
    He's gone cuckoo... his speed skating proposals are crazy too and you'd think he would at least make sense in his own sport!
  5. JJH

    JJH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,156
    Does he have senile dementia?
  6. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,245
    I so agree with this.
  7. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    11,058
    I don't think I could say it any better. :lol:
  8. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    No, no, no. Yes the President of the ISU, Ottavio Cinquanta, wants to make the sport more manageable, but there is no popular future for a sport like figure skating when it eliminates artistry, reduces the competition to a single night of hurried jumping, and tries to manufacture some artificial team event.

    ETA: I like the idea of them wearing uniforms in the national colors, complete with hoods to improve their jumps and speed. Cinquanta would love that.
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  9. RunnersHigh

    RunnersHigh Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,979
    What about same music, same choreography, same costume and same elements. :yikes:
  10. LadyNit

    LadyNit moving right along Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Messages:
    7,037
    This news is so depressing. Speedy has got to go. And he can take his anonymous judging with him.
  11. floskate

    floskate Vacant

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    8,780
    It's time that the skaters and the skating community as a whole- the ones who made this sport what it is and once was - stand up en masse to their federations and this idiot and just say NO! ENOUGH!! FECK OFF!!! He is certifiable :scream:
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  12. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    The English speaking countries could form a skating union with their own rules and standards. The Europeans and Asians can join if they choose, but we know it's the end of the road for the ISU being of use to the sport.
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  13. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    7,890
    This is the risk the ISU took by allowing him to stay passed the mandatory retirement ...
  14. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    5,564
    Is the ISU broke? I ask this because the only possible rationale for submitting proposals like this is to cut costs. If the ISU has run out of money, then that alone is a testament to Cinquanta's complete and utter failure as President. Even if the ISU has run out of money, this is not the answer as it would completely destroy the sport. The solution is:-

    1. Remove Cinquanta
    2. Bring back the 6.0 system
    3. Separate figure skating from speed skating by setting up a new governing body for figure skating
    4. Appointing somebody to run the sport who knows how to market it properly

    If it is the case that the ISU is on the verge of financial collapse, then Cinquanta should just do the honourable thing and go. He has done enough damage already
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  15. RunnersHigh

    RunnersHigh Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,979
    Let ISU members *ANONYMOUSLY* vote the solutions seperately. :cheer:
    AndyWarhol and (deleted member) like this.
  16. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    5,564
    Under the old 6.0 system, there was no anonymous judging. Hence, by bringing the 6.0 system back, that would get rid of that problem
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  17. Andrey aka Pushkin

    Andrey aka Pushkin Brezina's Nemesis

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Messages:
    15,820
    I hate 6.0. CoP is better.

    I also like SPs (apart from OD) much better than the LPs.
  18. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Messages:
    12,772
    It would take so much away from the competition aspect of the sport and make is far less exciting and interesting.

    IMO it would pretty much ruin FS.

    Why doesn't he just eliminate both figure skating and speed skating from the world of sport, since he seems to hate them so much? Take his final revenge on the boredom of having to go to all those competitions (hence the nose picking) and give all those medals, time and time again.
  19. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    17,494
    What part of "the crooked judges" did you miss?
  20. CynicElle

    CynicElle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2001
    Messages:
    2,174
    What the actual hell!? Is he TRYING to make people stop watching the sport?
  21. MrLucky

    MrLucky New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    639
    This just feels like the direction ISU and the IJS has been taking skating. To Speedy the only difference he sees between the SP and LP is duration. Why do you need both if they are so similar?
    He might compromise and make the LP shorter so fans could think they were seeing an SP and LP rolled into one. ;)

    Doing this he can also cut expenses by lowering all of the ISU prize money. If skaters only need to pay for choreo for one program it will cut their costs. If they are are only training one program they can cutback on their ice time, not run through as many boots, have lower coaching fees, etc.

    Yea, this plan has everything to keep skating under the IJS right on course to oblivion.
  22. sus2850

    sus2850 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2008
    Messages:
    466
    If this happens who on earth would travel to such an event? I guess he hates fans too.

    Especially for ice dance this is impossible. And if a skater has only one chance they will be even more nervous. And there will be no chance of making up for a bad short.
  23. Taso

    Taso Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2002
    Messages:
    6,662
    This seems to me like downsizing prior to wrapping up shop (taking the long view)
  24. beepbeep

    beepbeep Resident Rude Brazilian

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,269
    If someone in Japan wants to take a whack at Speedy, go for it.
    We'll crowdfund for the lawyer.

    :mad:
    Someone get this man out of there!!!!

    Or make figure skating an independent sport.
    TheIronLady and (deleted member) like this.
  25. Tangoer

    Tangoer New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2004
    Messages:
    25
    After reading his proposed changes and talking to some skaters it is obvious this guy is not making sense to anyone but himself! I don't know too much about speed skating but what he said sounded like it made no sense at all.

    As for skating, I know they always want to save money and what not but simply taking a short program out will kill the sport. Junior and senior worlds could likely still be held together as is (USFSA just added junior nationals to nationals so it has to work!)

    I was thinking what if we got rid of SD in ice dance- bring the pattern dance back (just one) and have a freedance with less required elements and emphasise the choreo more? And for pairs/freestyle judge the short program cop and the long program with 6.0? Then there would be some of the old beautiful skating we had under 6.0 but still some "objective" technical requirements. "Free" programs should after all be "free"!
  26. Tangoer

    Tangoer New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2004
    Messages:
    25
    I actually wouldn't be surprised if he said this! And helmets, especially for pair skaters :scream::rolleyes:
  27. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,088
    Oh goodness- please don't use two judging systems. What a mess.

    Also- I think you are forgetting that the vast majority of 6.0 programs were nothing special, and many downright awful. The beautiful ones were a rarity by the best skaters; the same as they are today. There has just been a lot more years of 6.0 to compile beautiful programs.
  28. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Messages:
    726
    This is Cinquanta's worst proposal yet and clearly reveals his lack of informed leadership, failure to understand the sport, and inability to handle anything in a competent, professional manner. I strongly believe the federations need to stand up and call for his resignation.

    Eliminating the short program is a terrible idea. It would negatively affect just about everything, as far as I'm concerned. First and most important, it would damage the quality and integrity of competition itself. The short program helps balance the competition and gives the skaters more opportunity to demonstrate their skills. Years ago when people were complaining about qualification rounds at Worlds, Alexei Mishin commented that he & Plushenko had no issue with qualification. His opinion: The more phases/events in any single competition, the more likely that the overall best skater will win that competition. Because having more phases helps average the results and makes it less likely that atypically great or atypically bad performances will disproportionately affect the outcome. It's the same principle behind having a 7-game championship series in the NBA (instead of just one game). If the SP were eliminated, the LP would quickly become, as someone said, a jump-filled splatfest with everyone throwing as many hard tricks as possible and consequently, in all likelihood, failing in many elements. The pressure would be so intense that the chances of seeing any great performances would be lessened. And we would soon start to see a lot more one-hit wonders and flash-in-the-pan wins.

    Eliminating the SP would also negatively affect the artistic side of the sport. Having 2 programs gives skaters more opportunities to try different program concepts, different music, and styles of skating. It gives them basically 2 chances each season to make an artistic statement. Eliminating half of those opportunities would hamper skaters' artistic development and would lead, immediately I think, to the end of any artistic/musical innovation. With everything riding on one program, I don't think anyone would feel comfortable using anything but proven warhorse pieces.

    I think cutting out the SP would also be disastrous in terms of ticket sales/revenue. It would eliminate half the competition, so therefore half the ticket sales possibilities and half the TV rights possibilities. Now some might argue that at many competitions, short programs are poorly attended anyhow and often not shown on TV. But this is not the case at bigger competitions. And especially for bigger events like Worlds/Nationals, organizers depend on many fans traveling to the event and buying all-event packages. For serious fans, all-event packages currently provide a very satisfying experience: 4-5 days of practices and 8 separate events (SPs/LPs) to enjoy. Eliminating SP would cut the value of the package in half, and this would certainly affect ticket sales and fans' willingness to travel to events. Eliminating the SP would also negatively affect the overall dramatic tension of the event and, thus, viewers' enjoyment.

    Cinquanta seems to have proposed this idea only to make things easier for the ISU and organizers. He did not offer a single well-reasoned, logical argument to support such a huge change in the structure of the sport. He is incompetent, unprofessional, a disgrace.
  29. lmarie086

    lmarie086 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,034
    You know, this isn't the kind of news I prefer to wake up to. But actually WTF. Speedy needs to get lost. Now.
  30. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    25,850
  31. GarrAarghHrumph

    GarrAarghHrumph I can kill you with my brain

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2001
    Messages:
    15,995
    I have no problem with making it so that the men's and women's programs are the same length of time. What, are the women too delicate to skate for the same number of minutes as the men? I have no problem with that change, although, of course, they'd need to figure out what the right length of time should be. And, depending on what that amount of time is, I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with making the long dance and the pairs' long program be that same amount of time, although I'm not sure what the point of doing that, for pairs and dance, would be.

    As for getting rid of the long distances in speed skating - I would mourn the death of those events. I like them. I also like Marathon. Then again, I also liked the compulsory dances, so perhaps we shouldn't use me as an example, here. ;)
  32. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    25,850
    I've always wondered about this myself, since it has been said that women have higher endurance than men.

    I guess the long program will be next...
  33. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,069
    ^THIS
  34. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,763
    True, and if we eliminate both short program and long program, the judges will have no opportunity to cheat at all, because if there is no skating, there will be no need for judges!
    reese and (deleted member) like this.
  35. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    25,850
    For TV, it might work, allowing more time to show more skaters.
  36. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,069
    Yes, a skater can skate poorly, and even fall in the short under COP, yet still be able to move up and medal after the long. This is a big problem IMHO, with COP. The short program no longer is do or die as it was with 6.0. The excitement is gone...Don't eliminate the short, eliminate COP!
  37. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,088
    But just as a skater who does poorly in the short can win it in the free; a skater can do amazing in the short and crap in the long and still win. Because the short program actually does matter.

    Plus short programs are generally so much more interesting than long programs.

    And I agree with those who say I would not travel to an event to see 4 long program events. Not worth it.
  38. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,763
    Look at Mao Asada at Olympics. Don't you think she deserved to move up? But despite her brilliant FS she didn't medal. I don't recall any events at worlds or Olympics where a skater would skate poorly in the SP and still medal. They would perhaps skate at not their usual standard and medal, but not poorly, that's a bit strong. That wouldn't medal.
  39. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Messages:
    13,733
    My wish, also!

    He's always hated figure skating -- saying he "didn't understand it".
    Sadly, he's threatened so many people over the years; by pushing those who disagreed with him out of decision-making positions, that he will probably get his wish
  40. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,441
    Interestingly, there are chronic "headcase" short program skaters who actually might welcome such a change.

    ...but the 250 metre oval idea for combined short-track/long-track speed skating is beyond belief.