Christopher Dorner manhunt in LA

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by Cachoo, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,184
    You almost sound like you are either justifying or denying his crimes. Many people are wronged in many ways. They don't go around shooting people. The reason he is being hated is he killed some innocent people (like the daughter & her fiance' of the man he had a grudge against). If he had not turned into this monster, he would have received a lot of sympathy for his suffering.
  2. duane

    duane New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    2,173
    I agree, though I hardly think it will be a fair investigation. They will likely say there was merit for his firing, and the officer who he reported police brutality against did nothing wrong.

    Still, I don't see how the LAPD can justify firing Dorner for making false claims, but allow those who riddled the car of the woman and her daughter delivering newspapers to remain on the job. Those cops should have been fired immediately, not simply reprimanded (if they ever were. All we've heard is that is was a grave mistake :rolleyes:).
  3. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    11,051
    He would have. But now his name will forever be thought of as "crazy cop killer" rather than "sympathetic dude who was unjustly fired."

    The truly disturbing part is that he didn't realize THAT in the three years he stewed on this and planned the rampage.

    If you feel so wronged that you can't stop yourself, you should get professional help. He is denied any sympathy the minute he decided to take lives in the name of his so-called "justice." Because killing those who fired you (let alone people who had nothing to do with it) is soooo equal punishment. :rolleyes:
    skateboy and (deleted member) like this.
  4. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Messages:
    23,895
    If he hadn't started on his rampage, who would have known he was fired for being a whistle-blower? Seems like he would have been completely silenced and marginalized.
    You have cops committing serious felonies, and then given a two-month paid suspension, desk-leave, or some other slap on the wrist. But someone who makes a claim against another cop is dismissed.
  5. Meredith

    Meredith what a glorious day!

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2003
    Messages:
    1,636
    This. I'm not only concerned that the the women were carelessly shot by the police, but that there is very little mention of it anywhere.
  6. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,184
    Even though there may be some truth in it, you can't use this as an excuse for what he did (murders) or a solution to the problem.
  7. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Messages:
    23,895
    No one is excusing his actions. I just think it's unrealistic to say if only Dorner had publicized his case differently, he would have gained public sympathy. I think there was exactly zero chance of his case ever being publicly heard, much less supported.

    I hope there is justice for the two women murdered, and for the victims brutalized by the police which Dorner witnessed, but I doubt it.
  8. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2001
    Messages:
    16,763
  9. reckless

    reckless Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,332
    The father of the man who was allegedly kicked said his son told him about being kicked when he was released (the son had red marks on the side of his face). The father's description of what the son told him matches exactly what Dorner said he witnessed. Also, one of the witnesses who testified for the police at the hearing was caught in a lie. He claimed that he told Dorner to straighten his tie, but photos from the day showed Dorner wasn't wearing one. Despite that, the hearing officers held that Dorner and the father were not credible, but the other witnesses were. When Dorner appealed his firing to the court system, the judge there admitted that he could not tell if the victim was kicked, but the judge could not substitute his own findings; he had to accept the findings that the hearing officers made.

    A couple of people I know with very good contacts inside the LAPD say the inside scoop is that everyone knows Dorner got screwed and the DVD of the hearing is pretty damning. Supposedly the DVD was among the things sent to Anderson Cooper.
  10. skatingfan5

    skatingfan5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2002
    Messages:
    10,745
    Which murdered women? I only have heard of one murdered woman in relation to the Dorner case -- Ms. Quan.
  11. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,184
  12. reckless

    reckless Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,332
    It's interesting to read that from Van Jones.

    Unfortunately, I disagree with his fundamental premise. To ask questions about Dorner's history with the LAPD does not mean I am being unsympathetic to Dorner's victims or supporting Dorner's conduct. Those issues are not mutually exclusive. The LAPD has a checkered past, and the consent decree with the Department of Justice was supposed to fix a lot of things. But if there is still a thin blue line that protects its own and punishes whistleblowers, we still have a problem.

    Moreover, this past week opened a lot of eyes to aspects of the LAPD that I don't think people had realized. In the post-9/11 world, local police departments have become increasingly militarized. Seeing a bunch of cops with semi-automatic rifles scared a lot of people, and the shooting of the women delivering newspapers raised even more red flags about police accountability. If you look at the pictures of Dorner's gray pickup truck, the racks on top of the cab should have been enough to tell the police that the bright blue pickup the women were driving was not the right truck. And then to see how many bullets were fired at the back of the truck (there are at least two dozen bullet holes visible in the photo), it raises questions about whether the police were out of control.

    And there are questions about how the police handled the situation at the cabin. The police have said they did not intentionally burn the cabin. However, early in the stand-off, radio picked up someone saying "burn that goddamn house down." And when the tear gas was deployed, the radio reported that they had deployed "burners." The gas used apparently was pyrotechnic tear gas, which is flammable.
  13. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Messages:
    23,895
    Yes, very interesting indeed.
  14. duane

    duane New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    2,173
    Exactly. I had actually replied to the CNN piece earlier, saying pretty much the same thing.
  15. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    11,051
    He did deserve sympathy, before he went off on his rampage. That's the thing that gets me - he could have used what happened to him and publicly shed light on the dirty dealings in the LAPD. He could have changed things for the better. But instead, he makes himself part of the problem. Or worse, because the focus is/will be on Dorner's mass killing spree INSTEAD of the LAPD corruption. At least comparatively.
  16. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Messages:
    23,895
    How? Gone to the media? You really think the media is going to cover a terminated employee's criticism of their former employer? Really? And what do you think the response of the police department would be? "He's a disgruntled employee--we looked into the issue and found no merit behind it."

    I really think people are being exceptionally naive if they think Dorner had many options for publicizing his case and being able to bring about policy changes on his own. I also think people are underestimating how much people don't really care about police brutality in most instances. Unless it happens on videotape to a celebrity, there isn't going to be a big public outcry about it. That's sorta the problem--public indifference.
  17. skatingfan5

    skatingfan5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2002
    Messages:
    10,745
    I haven't read much about what Dorner had done prior to his fatal shooting spree to try to publicize or otherwise bring attention to his case and the more general issue of police brutality. Was he just brooding and building up resentment and rage the past tour years or was he encountering repeated failures to get attention? If so, what were his unsuccessful attempts? From whom did he try to obtain help?
    It doesn't need to be a celebrity or captured on videotape, unless you are talking about an outcry and attention at the national level. Locally there was much attention brought and changes made to police conduct towards minorities -- unfortunately because of two fatal shootings by the police. :(
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  18. MacMadame

    MacMadame Internet Beyotch

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    15,931
    Actually, the SoCal media regularly covers misdeads by the LAPD because they have such a history of corruption. It's possibly they may not have found Dorner's claims credible but I'm sure they would have looked into it just because piling on the LAPD is such a media tradition there and there would have been plenty of journalists eager to find another example of the LAPD engaging in misconduct.
  19. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,184
    You are making it sound like Dorner had no choice but to murder people in order to get the problem fixed. This justifies murder, in a convoluted way (although I know that you as an individual would never condone murder). Dorner had options like seeking medical help when he was so full of hatred, and in a way mentally ill. I still believe he could have used some kind of media, or even writing about his experiences in LAPD. I don't buy that he had no other choice but to kill innocent people.
  20. Badams

    Badams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,906
    I think he was mentally ill. But the sad fact is, a lot of people who are mentally ill don't even realize they are... and therefore will not seek help. Or they can't afford the help they need. I think that this is a very sad case. I don't think that it is at all a black and white case of him being a cold-blooded killer...end of story. I think that's just part of the story.
  21. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    11,051
    Yuppers. The only people I know here who support the LAPD is related to a cop. That's it. Everyone else thinks all cops suck and are corrupt, etc etc. They would have GLOMMED onto Dorner's case like a fly to honey. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the people on "Team Dorner" are SoCal residents for that reason. The LAPD has that bad of a reputation here.
  22. duane

    duane New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    2,173
    That's not at all what agalisgv is saying or suggesting.
  23. reckless

    reckless Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,332
    I don't think that is true at all. I have lived in LA my entire life and think, for the most part, we are pretty jaded about the LAPD. I think we generally acknowledge that the LAPD has a bad reputation and is corrupt, but for the most part, unless the corruption rises to the level of a Rampart-level scandal or gets publicity like Rodney King, it is treated like an out-of-sight, out-of-mind issue.

    A single police officer being drummed out of the force is not going to receive much notice, particularly when the evidence is he said, she said. There are plenty of instances of more egregious conduct being overlooked that received virtually no public notice. For instance, are you even aware of this 2011 racial and sexual harassment and retaliation case from 2011? It only got minor coverage in this minor local paper, not any significant coverage. Typically, only when the LAPD gets hit with a big verdict like it was nailed with in November does the local media take notice.

    And where was the major outcry when, last May, the Inspector General issued a report that described significant problems with improper investigation of complaints and retaliation against complainants. What I found amazing were some of the numbers that were given for the results of internal affairs investigations during the quarter analyzed. Astonishingly, only about 10% of the allegations were found to have merit. Even more astonishingly, when the allegations were broken down, only 1/11 of the sexual misconduct, 0/15 of the ethnic remark, 1/10 of the discrimination, 0/14 of the retaliation, 0/79 of the biased policing, and 2/250 of the unauthorized force allegations were sustained. That is four out of a total of 379 allegations. Even setting aside the possibility that the latter two categories may have been prompted by allegations from outside the LAPD, the first four categories of allegations would have almost always been raised by other employees, who one would suspect had to have thought long and hard about raising their allegations. Yet onyl 2 of 50 of those allegations were found to have merit.

    Moreover, the report examines how the LAPD dealt with six claims of retaliation during that same quarter. In four of those instance, no interviews with the alleged wrongdoers were even conducted.

    I will admit that the report received a little coverage in the LA Times, but it wasn't like the public really sat up and paid attention. The response was what it generally is -- it's just the LAPD being the LAPD. In response, the Police Commission will issue some new policies and, in four or five years, we will get another report or scandal about how corrupt the system is.
  24. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    13,184
  25. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2001
    Messages:
    16,763
    I support the LAPD although I have no relation with any cops or the entire city of LA for that matter. I work with both first responders and the mentally ill.