Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by TheIronLady, Jan 25, 2013.
How do you know this?
Quotable Quote, Iceman! Maybe even the top quote of the Championships?
Wading into this thread with my eyes open, but maybe I should close them and take cover.
Gracie will be fine. Ashley will be fine. Allow them to breathe and support them equally please. We've got some U.S. ladies contenders, and let's just be thankful and enjoy it. Why stir up the "intense rivalry" pot? Why give USFS more fodder for favoritism antics?
As it is now, up on IceNetwork there's a poll asking: Which performance from the 2013 U.S. Figure Skating Championships was the most unforgettable?
I picked Meryl and Charlie myself. I don't see that anyone else topped them performance-wise, magical-wise, transcendant-wise, so I refuse to believe that the IN poll results accurately reflect the reality. Right now, the poll is stating:
42% Gracie Gold fs; 29% Max Aaron fs; and only 27% Meryl and Charlie free dance. What!? I can't believe that. GG PR working overtime?! It's gotta be a Rigged Conspiracy!!!
BTW, I'm not betting on the odds for either, but I believe that Ashley and Gracie both can do a lot of positive damage in the World standings and I absolutely 100% support them both. Gracie is learning how to compete and she's thrown down the gauntlet, but she needs to stay cool, and walk quietly with her big 3/3 sticks and textbook jump technique. Also, I hope Gracie and her team will lose the simplistic marching sequence in her fs and come up with something more interesting. She needs to continue honing herself and maturing, and not get ahead of herself. Vs. Gracie, I feel that Ashley is the most mature in terms of presentation, sportsmanship and competition experience. Plus Ash is a spirited veteran and a fighter. You Go Ladies!!
Plenty of people griped about things Ashley said and did last year.
Or, as in this case, a lame rant.
Post of the day.
Most US families cannot afford the cost of competitive figure skating, and US skaters are not subsidized in any way by the government, as in other countries.
Ah yes. And definitely it's a silly, throwaway spur-of-the-moment poll. Still, I would have had Meryl and Charlie ahead. Maybe it goes to show that more people (or at least the people who voted) are more into the singles events than the ice dance event. As far as "rigged conspiracy," I was cheekily referring to the poll, not to the actual Nationals competition nor to the judging.
A good thing I was never a skater-That bronze medal would have been kicked, stomped on, spit on, tossed in the toilet, peed on, and flushed. Now that's being a sore loser.
Gracie is fine. She's a pretty girl with red lipstick who jumps well. She needs her hair fixed more than she needs damage control.
Yeah, I fail to see how running off crying makes somebody a poor loser. That's ridiculous.
Throwing a medal on the floor or in the trash, sure. Running off crying? No way.
Well, the USFSA callers said that she did, but who knows? If she had been trained even as a child under IJS things could have been very different.
There are a number of successful skaters under IJS who are about as inflexible as Michelle who were able to level up since there are a variety of ways to get a level 3 spin. Few skaters in 2005-2006 understood IJS well enough to maximize their base scores. At the time, many found their levels varying dramatically from competition to competition.
I just can't at your double standard in judging her footwork. For her time, she had among the best footwork for the ladies. Who was receiving higher levels then?
How is this just "arms and smiles" - by 2005 standards, this was one of the best at the time
Sasha and Irina received the same levels (level 2) on their footwork, and both managed to eventually raise it to level 3. Likewise with Carolina Kostner and countless other skaters who started out with lower level footwork. Hell, Joannie Rochette had a level 1 step sequence and raised it to level 3 with positive GOE by 2010. Yet somehow magically to you Michelle is a special case O_O
In fact, at the 2005 world championships, during the free skate Michelle had the highest GOE of all the ladies on her footwork
So to sum up:
A resounding yes on spirals and footwork.
I can't believe how some still seem to be stuck in the dark ages...I mean, come on - there have been FAR WORSE things said that fans virtually ignore!
You should switch to decaf!
On Gold, I like the hair, love the jumps, hate the lipstick.
Umm... do you mind telling why?
The good thing about Gracie Gold is she will keep Wagner on her toes nationally. Wagner just NARROWLY avoided getting upset by her and cannot afford to coast along and rely solely on "street cred" each time. Competition is always a good thing, it makes everyone better in the end...
Zawadzki probably won't be the one to really challenge Wagner since she (AZ) lacks the consistency. But Gold definitely will be nipping at her heels (and perhaps even Hicks might, too, once she establishes herself)
ETA: of course, this assumes both a) an upward path for the challengers and b) no downward path for Wagner, i.e. she doesn't take herself out of it like Czisny, Flatt, Nagasu, etc.
The US has long relied on an ice princess to be the face of figure skating in the country. They're packaged , they're marketing, and they sell not only tickets to events and shows, but also products. Michelle was the spokeswoman for Barbey and Disney, etc., etc., etc. I remember reading about all that way done to package Nancy Kerrigan and to transform her from a blue collar worker's daughter into an ice princess. . .
Point is, it works - it gets the public interested in the sport and the person. And the US isn't the only country looking for its next bright star, just look at all the hype Chan got in Canada over the years.
FS just isn't all that popular in the US - even less popular than it is in Canada.
Having a skater in winning contention to focus on is always a good PR tool. The US could certainly do more to promote the sport - for starters, new NBC commentators. Not to mention how poor the FS coverage is on US networks - even poorer than it is on Canadian networks. If you don't air events, you don't get an audience.
A star ice princess would undeniably help motivate interest in FS in the US, so it's no surprise that there is an endless search for the 'next one' - at the moment, Gold is the it girl.
I do hope it means they will do a better dye job on Gold and get rid of those roots. Her peroxide blond color is just not championship level.
Who said those ladies are all done? Injured and/or inconsistent they are, but we cannot predict their demise yet.
See, if I were important or chummy enough to be interviewed by Brennan, I would not play into this where is the next ice princess/Disney corporate spokeswoman question. At the least I would have encouraged some sort of interest in rivalry between Agnes and Gracie, and emphasized that Ashley has beaten Mao. I would communicate something that would not put unhelpful expectations on the individual skaters (like a bunch of hoopla about the next princess Gracie, which has unfortunately been driveling out since Alissa under-performed at last year's nats). It is better than what these US old hands did by complaining to Christine that everything sucks because there is no Kwan.
Personally, I don't think Ashley Wagner needs anyone "nipping at her heels at senior Nationals" in order to stoke her competitive fires to be ready to take on the World. Ashley has already experienced many times all the ups and downs of Nationals competition. What's different is that she's now the one on top. And also, U.S. Nationals is the hardest Nationals competition in the World (with Japan, Canada and Russia also among the most difficult depending upon the discipline). I don't think Ashley needed Gracie Gold, nor anyone else to help her realize that defending and winning again at Nationals would not be easy. Ashley knew that going in, and I'm pretty sure she wasn't sitting back reading her press clippings, resting on her laurels, admiring her medal load of last year, and saying to herself, "I got this."
As Ashley and others have said, trying to defend your title is more difficult than winning it in the first place. Ashley learned a lot and she persevered even not at full strength. In that sense, this Nationals has been good for Ashley. She understands the importance of adding more difficulty to her programs, and I think she will do well at Worlds if she's completely healthy. Ashley is the one who took a hard look at her skating career and decided not to give up on her dreams. She made the necessary sacrifices and got the coaching help she needed to pull everything together with fire and desire. Ashley will keep her own self on her own toes with no assistance needed from any of her competitors.
Gracie Gold's journey is just beginning, and I think it's helpful for Gracie to have a veteran like Ashley Wagner setting an example as a competitor and as a teammate. Courtney Hicks is a talented jumper who seems to be in a great hurry, but she still has a very long way to go. Agnes is extremely talented too, but sometimes a la Ashley Wagner, there comes a time when as an athlete you've got to take stock of where you stand, what you want, and how hard you're willing to work. And then, you've got to figure out what you need to achieve your goals, how to go about getting what you need, and above all, what you are willing to give up to get what you need.
As far as "street cred," according to Tara Lipiniski (who recently aptly used that term in a fs context), that's getting into Mao Asada territory ... so 4CCs in Osaka, Japan will indeed be interesting.
I wouldn't lump Czisny, Flatt, and Nagasu into one dismissive category of "having taken themselves out of it." That doesn't make the least bit of sense to me in regard to describing these former U.S. ladies champions ... not in any way, shape or form.
I was being facetious. Except for the part where I would have kicked it.
I never said those 3 were done. But they definitely have all controlled their own destiny (at one point and/or another) and failed to rise to the occasion...numerous times.
But USFS doesn't control NBC Sports.
I wonder if the judges have relayed that to her, remembering they told Flatt to lighten her hair and cut it.
I wonder if Ashley feels some pressure to try something she is not ready for a worlds, a 3/3. I hope not.
Sounds like a self help mantra: "We all definitely control our own destiny and have numerous opportunities to rise to the occasion. And if perchance we fail, ... we may be doomed (or privileged?) to come back in another incarnation to go through the same or similar challenges until we get it right!"
Re the current present state of affairs in figure skating, skaters may control what they are able to do on the ice, but they don't necessarily control their "destiny" in terms of what the judges decide. But yes, doing one's best can make a crucial difference in the judges' marks, or not (depends on a variety of factors).
Point is this: she's going to have to push the technical envelope to keep up with the up-and-coming crop. Not just internationally to compete against Kim, Asada, et al. but now also domestically if she wants to stay on top...(and particularly if there are only 2 spots...it could get REALLY competitive)
No 3-3 in the SP or 2A/3T in the FS is simply giving points away. Unless, of course, she is not consistent enough on them to go for it. It's a risk but sometimes you have to take risks to win.
Yes, in the sense that Wagner is also a strong US hopeful and wears the US Champion cap in order to take some pressure off of Gold...but otherwise it really doesn't matter. I don't see them being too chummy
This comment was not intended to imply that those three are finished, as mentioned above. However, I've lost track of the amount of times they've (collectively) thrown away opportunity after opportunity to win a medal or make a statement of some sort...
^^ We all have our varying perspectives and debate can be a good thing. In any case, it's not necessary to be "chummy" in order to respect your fellow competitors. Yes, it's an individual sport, but it's also good to be team-spirited, especially for World Team Trophy and the team comp to come at Sochi. Sure, I know it can be a bit testy when everyone's fighting for the one spot at the top. But again, as a fan I'm rooting for the entire U.S. team to do well at 4CCs and Worlds. And yes, the competition should continue to be quite interesting at Worlds and Nationals events currently and going forward.
Re Czisny, Flatt, and Nagasu, they each will have personal challenges no matter what lies ahead. I wish them all well, and I think they each have taken excellent advantage of their opportunities and have fought determinedly against setbacks. It seems to me that there are many competitors who would love to achieve even half of what these ladies have accomplished on and off the ice.
Above originally posted by aemeraldrainc in the "Figure Skating Lacks Popularity" thread in GSD. I thought it might be interesting to discuss here as well since a tweet by Ashley is included, and the article mentions ladies figure skating in the context of "searching for new stars." I think the mention of Dick heading a lecture discussion complete with skating performance clips at the Film Society of Lincoln Center (sponsored by Ice Theater of New York) was very interesting. I agree with the "Outfront" blogger that such a lecture style touring series would be great. I also think ISU and feds should collaborate on unique ways to entertain and educate the public about the new judging system.
Also, I don't think there is a need to "search" for new stars, but simply to think outside the box and beyond the status quo re promoting all of the skating athletes/ stars who already exist, but are being ignored (and it shouldn't be all about the ladies, as others have noted in recent threads).
I would gladly pay for a DVD of that presentation.
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