Choreographer's database?

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by dinakt, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    I was wondering if there is a place to see all the work of a particular choreographer. If I want to see or to reference all works of Nichol, Wilson, Dickson, Camerlengo, Tarasova etc, is there a place to go? If not, what is the most efficient way to get that information?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  2. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    That would be a great idea. For instance, I still dont know which program Lori N. choreographed for Tatiana/Max (pairs)
     
  3. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    For starters, it would be nice if they simply announced the choreographer at the same time as they announce the skater and the music.

    But choreography in skating seems to be a lot more fluid than it is in dance, at least ballet.
     
  4. joeperryfan

    joeperryfan Well-Known Member

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    Actually I'm working on it, the coding part is practically done, but inserting the information is the biggest challenge!
     
  5. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    The choreographers for the current year are part each skater or teams bio on the ISU website, and for US skaters and some others, on the icenetwork website. I believe ice-dance.com also lists choreographers as part of bios.

    The trouble is that bios are not particularly well-maintained; no one says to a skater, "You cannot compete in this ISU event unless you have a current biography on the ISU database, with every item filled out." And that should be a rule.

    It would save everyone a lot of annoyance, particularly journalists and TV folk.

    There would still be a need for joeperryfan's database to keep track of previous years, but at least the data would be available for a significant length of time, so that such a database could be updated.
     
  6. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Sounds like an ambitious project! Good luck with it! :)
     
  7. joeperryfan

    joeperryfan Well-Known Member

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    ITA, but I'm not sure how the update process really works, maybe the ISU lacks manpower to keep it updated properly, I've noticed that at the beginning of the season lots of profiles get updated after certain events, usually JGP, etc, I know the software used to run the competitions can keep track of skaters, if it connects to the ISU database maybe that's how it's done and then it depends on the organizing committees to make sure the information is updated and sent.

    Regardless, my plan is to get the skaters involved in updating the info on my site, the kids are so in touch with the internet these days that it will be a lot easier than a few years ago, I'll start with the few I know and then hope it spreads.


    Thanks!
     
  8. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    Good luck with that joeperryfan. The kids & their coaches are supposed to update their own bios for ISU...and they don't do it.
     
  9. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    Unless you choose to keep it secret, please tell more!!! How do you approach it?
    I imagine the choreographers themselves keep track of their work, so the best strategy might be to approach them.
    Choreo IS fluid- a choreographer choreographs, a coach changes it, a skater omits smth- who at the end stands behind the final product? As skating is not considered primarily an art, it is understandable that the database might be fluid and incomplete... Still, as I go to various sources to see a body of work of a composer or performer, whichever genre, it would be enlightening to see a body of work of Nichol, Dickson etc.
     
  10. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    The ISU bios list choreographers, but it isn't always clear which choreographers are for which program. The two choreographers can have worked together, or if there are more than two, it's isn't clear which two worked together and which one worked alone.
     
  11. joeperryfan

    joeperryfan Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I don't expect them to update anything with their own hands, I just meant it's easier to chase them to ask for the info. :lol: How are they supposed to keep their ISU bios updated? Is there an interface available online or do they have to go to someone in order to do it? Just curious to see where's the bottleneck. Anyway, i hope at some point it becomes a vanity thing, you know, to have a nice and complete profile on the site.

    I expect to have the coding part all done this week.

    I have thought about those issues, there are some notoriously tough cases such as "The Feeling begins", or was it "Requiem"?, by Grishuk and Platov where Grishuk, Tarasova and Dubova(or was it Linichuk?) all say different things about the choreography... I guess we'll need Platov to set the record straight. ;) Or the case of Mishin's students who never skate to the program they have in the beginning of the season for a long time.
    I'll stick with what's official, but if a choreographer wants his/her name removed from one of the routines then I'll remove it, or maybe I can add different statuses of cooperation, such as "consulting" for smaller works, "
    first draft" for those programs that ended up being something completely different than what was intended, etc...
     
  12. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    I don't know where the bottleneck is, but I can tell you that some federations are vastly worse than others; Italy for example does a bad job.
     
  13. joeperryfan

    joeperryfan Well-Known Member

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    ^^Italy, no kidding? They're usually so organized... ;)

    I guess it's just another thing that understaffed Federations neglect... Not long ago Victoria Muniz wasn't sent to 4CC, if I'm not mistaken, because her fed hadn't filed the paperwork... compared to that the ISU bios are nothing. :( But let's hope that given the opportunity at least the skaters and coaches decide to cooperate. :)
     
  14. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    That sounds like a great project, joeperryfan! Is it going to be a wiki style site where anyone can post? Perhaps, for cases like G&P's Feeling Begins, there can be links to source articles that discuss the controversy.
     
  15. joeperryfan

    joeperryfan Well-Known Member

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    It's not a wiki, but I'm planning to have a form where visitors can notify me if they find any mistakes in the data and another to suggest new routines. It's not much more complicated than a wiki, the main difference is that I'll have to approve the new data before it goes live, this helps keep the site free from duplicates and at the same time give some form of guarantee that the data is being revised and that the site is edited.

    Good suggestion, I'll make a field for references that can keep that kind of information.

    There are still a few things that need work, I don't have a lot of data inserted yet, but here's a preview for you:

    Example of a choreographer page: Ingo Steuer
    Here the list on the factsheet will only show the six most recent routines on file, the full list is under the side tab "Routines Choreographed".

    Example of a skater page: Brian Joubert
    By clicking on the routine you'll see more details about it.

    Example routine page: Exogenesis and another one with pics Justice. Notice that below you have a check list of the events where the routine was performed and the photos and videos available for them, by clicking you can see them.

    Then inside the routine page, if you click on the Title of the track used you'll get this: Exogenesis part 3 and here you can see amongst others all the routines that have used that track.

    I'm aware that there are several bugs, nevertheless if you find anything malfunctioning please let me know! I also welcome your suggestions.

    Thanks!
     
  16. manleywoman

    manleywoman podcast mistress

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    Awesome work! Thanks for doing it!
     
  17. joeperryfan

    joeperryfan Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! :)
     
  18. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

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    Many moons ago, when I was competing, if we qualified from a Canadian sectionals to a Divisionals competition, we were required to fill in paperwork listing our choreographers for each program. I'm assuming it's even easier to do now for competitors.

    Though I know it's not reliable, wikipedia lists the choreographers for the programs of many skaters.
     
  19. joeperryfan

    joeperryfan Well-Known Member

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    Is anyone here good at identifying Rolling Stones songs - MuZak edition?

    So far I have nine programs that use "Paint it Black"! I need help with these two:

    1) Wötzel & Steuer 1996 FS
    First cut is "Time is on my side", one of my favorite songs by RS so I was :swoon: when I heard it. I can't identify the other two cuts, it sounds familiar but I'm on a stupid day I'm afraid...

    2) Alban Préaubert 2010
    The cut between "Angie" and "Start me up". Again I know this song but the mental hard drive isn't doing its job.

    Thanks!
     
  20. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    W&S - Lady Jane and It's All Over Now
    Alban - Mannish Boy

    My talent is googling, not song IDing though (googling Alban's name and the titles you did know did the trick).

    I have another suggestion... perhaps a little section where someone could write the story of the program, for example U&Z's statues or K&P's wind and sand (Lawrence of Arabia)... I find these things get lost over the years since they're not part of the music's title. Unless they're watching a video where the commentary mentions it people won't know the meaning.
     
  21. joeperryfan

    joeperryfan Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your help, Cherub! I try to google but many times it's not helpful... ex: I was identifying the tracks on C/B's Quidam SD, everywhere it said both parts were from Quidam, except they weren't... it was driving me nuts so I started listening to other Cirque albums and finally found out one of the tracks was from Corteo.

    Count so far: programs using music from Quidam: 30! (some are not yet listed)

    Good suggestion, I'll add a field for concept. :)
     
  22. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    There are some programs that identify song tracks. I've never used any, but have any of the rest of you?

    If so, which are really good (and preferably easy to use, since I'm an idiot).
     
  23. reut

    reut Active Member

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    I used "Shazam" on my smart phone. It was quite good.
     
  24. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    Thank you! I'll have to give it a try.
     
  25. joeperryfan

    joeperryfan Well-Known Member

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    I've gone crowdfunding with the music database, work will be scarce this summer and I have a friend who can help with this so I thought it would be a good opportunity to collect some much needed funds to make the db as complete as possible before the olympic season kicks in.

    Here's the link to the project.

    Thank you :)