Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by jjane45, Oct 4, 2012.
Han Yan is on the substitute list, so yes, he could get the nod instead of Song.
Especially since YAN is 1) actively training and healthy; 2) not on JW entries.
I am just curious what will decide who goes.
A skateoff or monitoring session?
if anyone hears or reads about any online reports/rumors in the Chinese forums, please share!
Recent JW article in Chinese: http://sports.sina.com.cn/o/2013-02-25/17526436556.shtml
The first paragraph paraphrased:
As 2012 JW pairs champions SUI Wenjing / HAN Cong and men's singles champion HAN Yan moved into senior ranks, this year's Chinese JW team is a combination of old and new skaters. Although continuing last year's brilliant results is more difficult, the team still has medal contenders in pairs and men's singles.
ETA: I often do not consider sports journalists without a direct quote "official" sources though. It may as well be speculation on the writer's part.
The national team rearranged training schedule to adapt to the local time (in London). YAO Bin said pairs ice time moved from 3pm to 1pm. They also tried to simulate the narrower NHL rink size, adjusting program layout at some places.
TONG Jian’s knee injury plagued him all season, especially after GPF. His jumps and gliding are greatly affected. After various treatments, at least he was jumping on the day of interview. “Just guarantee one (jump?) per day.” YAO Bin smiled helplessly. TONG Jian said basically he’ll jump if he feels OK, else he can only give up. For this team of 30+, the ability to compete alone merits respect.
S/H returned from injury but on the day of interview did not complete difficult moves like throw jumps, also only doubles for SBS jumps. "SUI was diagnosed with (insert bone injury difficult to translate) last year. She resumed training but has not got some of the elements back yet, and the pair may reduce the difficulty level at worlds." YAO Bin said.
For P/Z, YAO Bin said “their main problem is lack of experience, poor foundation, lack of consistency, plus not training together long enough." ZHANG Hao also has injuries from fingers, arms to knees and ankles. They do not affect normal competition and training, but still cannot be taken lightly.
"I hope each pairs team can perform at their real level!" YAO Bin said. He believes for figure skating, only programs with absolutely no mistakes can achieve the “perfect state”. He mentions S/Z at 2004 worlds and P/T in Vancouver as examples, where the judges and audience all responded with passion. “For a program with mistakes, sometimes even if it receives high scores, people still feel it's not an elegant win."
YAN Han's weibo reply to a fan (2/27/2013 8:56am local time): 我短期没比赛 or I have no competitions in the immediate future. Combined with other recent posts showing disappointment... Still don't know but maybe his chances got very slim ：(
What a disappointment!
Yan Han should go to worlds! What is the Federation thinking?
I wonder if it is to do with politics. Hmmm....
By the way why is this thread in the Trashcan, while other nationalities updates are in the GSD?
I asked this question in the first page of this thread and this was the reply by the thread starter:
If there are notable news articles in Chinese that have been translated or summarized here, I have posted them as separate threads in GSD.
ETA: Thanks for adding your translation in post #126 - I've re-posted in this thread in GSD: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...-experienced&p=3850411&viewfull=1#post3850411
It's not as if Yan Han has been stellar all season. He was great at one competition. If he had been skating like Kovtun has been for Russia perhaps China might have skipped an older guy for him, despite the higher finish at nationals for Song.
Whether one agrees with the national championship results or not, skipping the national champion for someone else does not seem like a good precedent. While I'm sure politics may be involved, I'm not sure if there's more politics there than Russian federation or the French federation or USFSA...
eta: On another note, I also see Yan Han as a competitor who needs to peak for events, and I suspect he's already peaked at 4cc. I don't see him skating great at back-to-back competitions, though I could say that about Song too (who skated fairly well at 4cc)
Dunno, jlai...I don't think Han peaked at 4cc. He had few mistakes there and was visibly and understandably tense in his first senior event. He needs to be put in these sorts of event, with the best skaters. I won't comment on the national results since I didnt watch the competition, but the scoring potential of Han is much greater than Song, and that was evident with a few mistakes and Song landed his quads and 3 axels. It's for the benefit of Nan Song, too. If there's any possibility that China gets 2 spots for next season it lies in the hands of Han Yan
Besides...if they are not gonna take him to worlds, why didn't they enter him at Junior Worlds? Doesn't have much sense to me
Han Yan hasn't had back-to-back great competitions for a while (or this season), that's all I'm saying.
If you want to pick someone based on scoring potential, well, all federations might as well skip their national championships. USFSA should send Mirai every year to worlds and Flatt should have stayed at home (according to the scoring potential believers )
Not sending Yan to jr world is a great idea imho; the chinese fed needs to spread out their assignments to maximize seasons best opportunities for skaters like Zhang He. I'm disappointed for Yan Han re: worlds, but he got his one senior championship counted towards his ranking and will get gps next year. Speaking of, USFS is really the only one who keeps sending senior ready skaters back...just saying.
This is what makes me .
What the hell are they doing?!!
This maybe a dumb question but I ask anyway:How does Yan not going to JWC would benifit Zhang? China has 3 spots for JWC and also only 3 men have reached the MTS.
Ah, I kept thinking China has two. Sorry.
In that case I'd send Yan Han to jr world if I were Team China (but he's won it already, so to me it's not as big a deal as not going to worlds). I would have loved to see him at worlds but perhaps a consistently stellar season next year will change China's mind ala Kovtun (for Russia)
Just sent PM to forum moderator. Guess there are some articles in this thread after all
They have three! And they didn't even bother to name any alternates.
So even though there are 34320943849023840928 skaters competing at the national level, nobody got sent.
I just want to personally murder each every single Chinese Figure Skating Federation official.
Ziggy, whispering posted earlier that "only 3 men have reached the MTS" (minimum technical scores) required for 2013 Junior Worlds.
He Zhang will finish one spot higher and gain extra ISU World Standings ranking points at Junior Worlds?
ETA China's 2013 Junior Worlds men's entries and 1 alternate as of Feb. 6 (to confirm whispering's post #143 below):
That is what is so puzzling.
No，they did initially named Wenbo Zang as alternate who has not competed at any international competition for over two years
Han Yan I agree isn't a beacon of consistency, but he's not a headcase either. And 4CC showed the judges regard him more highly than Song, Yan had a healthy PCS margin over Song in both segments of the competition and came out ahead overall by a fair amount despite having a rougher FS. Like the guy in Russia had said of Kovtun, if the ISU judges see a young up-and-comer go out and land the big tricks, they will reward them for doing so with big scores even if this skater may not be so strong artistically yet. Han Yan is considered by just about everyone as a young gun, up-and-comer, future star, the like while Nan Song is known as a 2nd or 3rd tier skater with very good jumping ability. That's a difference and that's also why sending Yan makes more sense. To make the top 10, Song will likely need to skate perfectly with 3 quads, and even then, he might not make the cut, whereas Yan can likely make the top 10 with a few mistakes. 4CC showed us that - Yan had a great SP but his FS was not really anything that special technically or performance wise (only one 3a, fell on 4t attempt), and yet he still beats Song who also had a great SP for his standards and a FS that was pretty darn strong technically. It's honestly likely to increase Song's chances of going to the Olympics next year if Yan goes, because if there's only one spot, it will likely go to Yan.
It's quite strange that the Chinese boards are so quiet on which man goes to Worlds. There were some hopeful speculations after YAN disappeared from JW entries, then pretty much dead silence.
It sucks the way Han Yan has been treated this year. He should have been on the Senior GP and if not sent to Worlds (I do think Song should go as national champ even when his chances of getting 2 spots are smaller) he should0ve definetly got Jr Worlds instead.
Oh well, at least both guys should be at WTT right?
Reading Yans weibo and the Chinese boards, Yan really does not want to go to JW. His Chinese fans especially do not want him to go to JW again because they know theres a high possibility that he may lose to Joshua Farris there. His fans were celebrating that Yan is not going to JW because they dont want him to lose to Joshua Farris.
No, Song didnt do that well at 4CC. His SP was not great for his standard, and the LP was not good either. Song only had one 4T in his LP, and he made errors in both programs, while Yan was clean in his SP and was almost clean in LP except one fall. Song made more errors in his LP than Yan did, and so Songs LP TES was lower than Yan at 4CC. But Song has proved he scored 80+ TES in LPs in the past, and Yan has not done so. If the Chinese Federation is thinking about scoring potential, then they would think Song has higher scoring potential than Yan.
Yes, both guys will be at WTT.
That's because Chinese Fed doesn't send skaters to international events so they can't earn those.
Not at all an unnatural surmise, when you consider than Han only beat Joshua by half a point last year, with Han landing a 4T and Joshua not even attempting one. But I'm a little surprised that it's so openly stated.
Personally I'm quite disappointed. I enjoy it especially when there's a thrilling tussle and I thought this year's JW, with a possibility of Han, Kovtun, Joshua and Jason bringing a 3A this time, was going to be an epic showdown.
My overall impression from reading the boards? YAN Han has no business on the junior circuit after winning JW last year and 4CC bronze. Federation is stupid. Leave the junior worlds to "double J".
Re: scoring potential, I hear numerous people guess YAN Han can potentially make top 10 with minor mistakes, while SONG Nan needs to be absolutely clean.
The Chinese heritage in me also thinks Yan has graduated to senior ranks and so the question is really whether he should go to worlds.
That said I also get the thinking about maxing your skaters' competing opportunities by sending age eligible skaters to jr comps.
Anyway, I always ge tthe sense that team China operates on a shoestring, so skaters have to prove themselves to get comps and perks.
Whether they really have no money or they are just stingy, I cant say.
Well if they want to send Song Nan to Worlds, then there is a sense from sending Yan Han to Junior Worlds. To give him some ranking points.
Han YAN received 680 ISU World Standings ranking points for his bronze at 4CC so he couldn't have picked up any more points at Junior Worlds (500 points for 1st place) because only 1 ISU Championship counts per season.
If Nan SONG goes to Worlds and places 9th or higher, he can increase his ranking points from the 496 he gained at 4CC.
I think that's a lousy reason to send Song to Worlds instead of Yan. What's more important here? Getting 2 spots for Olympics or giving Song another chance to rack up more ranking points? I think Yan has a better chance than Song to earn the 2 spots at Worlds. The better skating skills alone will be favored by the judges.
But I have no idea if that's the, or a, reason Song is going to Worlds instead of Yan. If I had the power , I'd send Yan to Worlds.
Want to hear a lousier explanation? To justify the $$$ spent on SONG Nan's choreography.
I like both YAN and SONG and wish they compete for the spot on an equal footing. But the federation seriously made many mistakes in the year of Olympic qualification.
Ziggy, allegedly there are six federation officials, which one would you like to take?
Indeed. It's just that nobody is able to come up with a remotely logical explanation for the Chinese Federation's decision. I guess "justifying the $$$ spent on Song" is as good (or nonsensical) as any.
Ahhh ok. Thanks for pointing that out. Now I am starting to understand better why Yan isn't at Junior Worlds. Although I guess even not getting ranking points, he'd help the fed secure 3 spots for next year.
All of them.
Ziggy, I am in China right now. Shall I make same enquiries for you? I hope Nan Song has recovered from the accident he had. Not a wonder if it has leaved some trauma to him.
Zhang and Jin managed to earn 3 spots (barely but they did it).
Maybe Team China has a crystal ball (or lots of ). (Or sheer dumb luck)
Separate names with a comma.