Chinese skating updates and reports

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by jjane45, Oct 4, 2012.

  1. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I agree that Zhang/Peng should have their spot for sure. I think Sui/Han have also a pretty good chance of having their spot, unless both remaining pairs are clearly much better than Sui/Han. If one is better and one is exactly same as Sui/Han, they would probably choose Sui/Han because this team is known to judges and is likely to be scored better.
     
  2. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    Funny because I was starting to seriously think they should really do that...until I saw the beautiful first ever 4T that he landed in competition at the recent Chinese Nationals..
     
  3. feraina

    feraina Well-Known Member

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    Oops, sorry, I really meant 3 spots. I do think P/Z have 1 probably sewn up unless they are seriously injured or something. You have to give it to them both for speed of improvement and general consistency (this season). The Chinese pairs are weakest in sbs jumps. It looks like by now P/Z, S/H, and Y/J have by now stabilized their 3T, but they either don't attempt another triple, or attempt the 3S and fail (except the one success S/H at 4CC); W/W is not even secure with their 3T. I think Zhao is ambitious and wants the Chinese teams to challenge V/T for gold in 2018, and he probably thinks a second triple is a must. I think that's why S/H are being pushed to attempt the 3S this season, resulting in many pops and falls, and which seems to be sapping their confidence/energy from the rest of their program. I really hope that this is the right strategy and they'll manage to master the 3S soon! It's interesting that P/Z hasn't attempted the 3S as often this season and instead resorting to 2A -- to me it either means they are not as successful as S/H in practice, and/or the training plan for them isn't as long-term.
     
  4. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if Zhao is fixated on the 3S or if he needs to be ... Let's not forget Stolbova/Klimov just won Oly/World silver with 2A and without 3S, same for S/S (although they do two 3Ts in LP). There are different ways to win.
     
  5. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    article link:
    全国花滑冠军赛李子君折桂 闫涵退赛宋楠男单登顶
    http://sports.sina.com.cn/o/2014-04-14/10017118538.shtml

    Yan Han was injured and didn't compete
     
  6. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    I love reading your posts, feraina, you're so knowledgeable about all the Chinese pairs, but especially my faves (& it seems yours as well) Sui & Han. :)

    I especially noted your comments on Sui going through puberty? That makes me think she is in fact only 16 yrs. old, not 18, as reported on her wikipedia the discrepancy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sui_Wenjing

    Whatever the case, it is the 4twist that interests me the most, as both Sui and Julia Antipova do the 4twist with their respective partners. And if Sui is going through puberty now I think Julia will as well since she's only 16 yrs. old herself. It makes me wonder if both pair teams will still maintain their fabulous 4twists???? :confused: Or if their elements will suffer once puberty is over for the both of them....


    More fascinating information, thanks feraina! :)
     
  7. feraina

    feraina Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, I don't think Zhao is only aiming for a silver, so being as good as S/K wouldn't be good enough (plus S/K is improving very rapidly as well!). There was a long interview with him about it a couple months ago. He wants the gold back from the Russians, and he seemed to think that one arena where the Chinese pairs may be able to claw back some advantage is the technical side. He mentioned 4tw (already regularly attempted by top Chinese pairs) and 4th (previously attempted by some but apparently more to come soon). I don't recall if he said anything specific about a 2nd sbs triple, but it wouldn't surprise me if that's in the plan as well. S/H and P/Z both skated several LP this season, especially S/H, with sbs 2S -- they're clearly training for the long-term, since S/H have a very reliable sbs 2A. S/H did land a beautiful sbs 3S at 4CC, though they said afterwards in the interview that their success rate is not that high in practice. Now that the Olympic season is out of the way, I'm sure they will be drilling on the 3S and other technical elements soon.

    Of course, where the Chinese pairs are really weak is presentation, though the PCS for the top teams have sky-rocketed since Zhao/Shen took over last summer. Y/J won ahead of the various Russian junior pairs this season often because of their PCS edge, a real novelty after trailing so far behind in PCS in the previous seasons. And W/W looked very polished and synchronized at CoC after just a few months of training with no prior pairs experience for girl Wang. So I have no doubt that S/Z are emphasizing the presentation aspect as well, and there's no one better in China to be coaching this aspect anyway. There is just so little tradition of "artistic" skating in China, and the only "artistic" skater prior to S/Z was Lulu, who, because of her spat with the Chinese federation, isn't at all involved with the training of athletes on the national team. I'm actually disappointed that after running her own rink and skating program with Denis Petrov for quite a few years (about 10 if I remember correctly), they still haven't produced any notable competitive skater.
     
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  8. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Is Lulu still in Shenzhen at a mall rink? If so it may be hard to produce high level skaters.
     
  9. feraina

    feraina Well-Known Member

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    Yes. But it's a pretty good rink. With a serious skating academy.
    http://www2.isiasia.org/modules/AMS/article.php?storyid=4
    I have a friend who coached there for a while.

    Not all mall rinks are terrible. The La Jolla Figure Skating Club is based at the UTC Mall Rink here in San Diego, and it has a lot of serious coaches/skaters. Off the top of my head, Rachael Flatt used to skate here.
    http://www.lajollafsc.com/
     
  10. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Another great informative post, thanks feraina. :)

    I agree that it's going to be a battle between the Russians and the Chinese for the top spot, but I've always had a weakness for the exemplary Russian tradition in not only pairs skating, but also their gymnastics of old. They are imho the *hard copy*, the originals. Their technique, their speed, posture, presentation, everything, is just superb! Nobody can touch the Protopopovs nor G&G, the greatest pair teams of all time. jmho.

    That said, it's going to be exciting to see each country push one another to be the very best, which in turn will push other countries to just try to keep up ~ quads galore!!!! :rollin:

    BRING IT ON! :respec:
     
  11. feraina

    feraina Well-Known Member

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    Nadine, I love how you are always so positive. A breath of fresh air. :)
     
  12. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Considering the rate of entropy in competitive skating and how relatively few kids you get to begin with, you might be doing all the right things and not get a decent competitive skater. Maybe she wasn't lucky enough yet. (Or maybe she's not doing a very good job. Who knows. :p)

    Not any more, they are not. Not the current crop of top Russian pairs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
  13. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Since this thread is for Chinese skating news, would you like to elaborate why you think so here? Russian pairs season 2014-2015

    Is there anything in the Chinese media about the ice shows this week in Zhengzhou, China? I recognized John Kerr in Rippon's "Angry Milk Teas" Instagram photo - Sinead Kerr with dark hair now? Who are the others?
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
  14. pingu

    pingu Well-Known Member

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    Matteo Guarise on the right and Nicole Della Monica on the left. I cannot recognise the girl in the middle though.
     
  15. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
  16. rosewood

    rosewood Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see videos of the show in Zhengzhou. Are there any fan cams on youku/tudou?
     
  17. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    feraina (or anybody else), if you have the time, would you be so kind as to briefly summarise the issues between Chen Lu and the Chinese Federation that now result in her not working with national team skaters?
     
  18. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    This Chen Lu article was published last week: http://www.chinadailyasia.com/sports/2014-04/16/content_15130769.html
    Excerpt:
     
  19. feraina

    feraina Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, all I know is hearsay, so don't quote me, or ask me for refs. ;) Chinese skating fans have long talked about differences arising due to financial compensation and loyalty. There was talk of Chen Lu and Mingzhu Li disagreeing about how to divide up the earnings from medaling at international events, and of Li reporting Lu to the federation for planning on defecting. Lu was also going through puberty-related issues, and there were rumors that they had disagreements over how to deal with that. After their split, Lu had some really poor competitive results, and took a long while before getting into competitive shape again for her last hurrah.

    More recently, just before the Olympics, Lu Chen posted on her Weibo (Chinese twitter) some criticism about corporal punishment, in reference to Mingzhu Li, and also linked Zijun Li and Kexin He in her posts -- during a time when Zijun was rumored to be having a difficult time with Mingzhu Li, and Kexin He was rumored to have had similar difficulties with Mingzhu Li the previous season. Kexin He posted to Zijun Li on Weibo something like "Last year it was me, this year it's you." Chinese fans expressed general surprise about the nature of Lu Chen's complaint (they thought it was more about money or personality differences, but she seems to be most upset about the corporal punishment aspect, which, by the way, was very common in the way Chinese coaches/masters disciplined disciples in that era, though Lulu with her western influence was probably more upset by it then than most); they were also generally critical about the timing of Lu's posts, because they came at a most distracting time, when the girls should have been concentrating on their on their own Olympic preparations. They thought it was rather immature and selfish.

    By the way, back when MingZhu Li still lived in CA and went to China with Caroline Zhang for CoC, and she was asked by Chinese media about how things were with Lu Chen, she gave a very diplomatic response, saying something like they grew up together as coach and athlete, and still had much to learn, and that she would be happy to reconcile with Lu Chen. Chen was also interviewed, and gave a very cool response, saying something like she had nothing to say to Mingzhu Li. So Chen rebuffed Li back then.

    When I watched the British Eurosport broadcast of Worlds, one of the commentators (Nicky, I think) mentioned that the reason Zijun Li failed to do a combo in the SP (she did 2A, 3F-no combo, 3Lz), when she should have trained the alternate scenario and known to added on a double after the 3Lz, is probably because of coaching issues. He said he observed her and her coach at practice all week, and found their interactions to be very odd. He thought there was definitely something going on there.

    Zijun and Mingzhu Li were rumored to be having conflicts all fall -- it wasn't even clear if Zijun would be sent to the Olympics. She even trained with another coach for a while to get back into shape (she had various illnesses on top of puberty-related problems). So while she did eventually go back to the national team, it seems she and Mingzhu Li aren't back to being on really good terms yet. Whether Lu Chen's weibo posts to Zijun actually affected her Olympics performance or exacerbated her problems with Mingzhu Li is unknown, but certainly from Mingzhu's perspective, I would imagine she'd not be too happy with Lu Chen's interference in their affairs, or apparent attempt to drive a wedge between them.

    Chen has not done anything official at the national level related to skating, except she commentated for CCTV at some major competitive event recently, I think it was the Olympics, or maybe it was last year's Worlds. In any case, she wasn't very good at commentating. It was clear that she wasn't familiar with the new COP rules, and hadn't done her homework about the current competitors.

    Mingzhu Li supposedly signed a contract with the Chinese federation only through this past season, and it's not clear yet if she's going to continue teaching the ladies. Supposedly she would've gotten a bonus if Chinese women had placed top 10 at the Olympics, but obviously that didn't happen (a shame, really, since in the previous two years Kexin & Zijun both did place top 10 once each). Even without the bonus, this Olympics and Worlds must have been a disappointing outcome for everyone. Kexin is apparently quitting. Zijun is not quite herself and apparently not on great terms with Mingzhu. And two other young ladies, Xiaowen Guo and Ziquan Zhao, have both been rather inconsistent and not living up to their early promise. Only a very young girl, Xiangning Li (13), is doing relatively well, but at one month shy of 14, she just completed her first hard triple (3Lp) at a recent competition, so I don't know if she'll ever become competitive among the seniors. I can see how Mingzhu Li might be tempted to leave the Chinese team right now, with so little to work with.
     
  20. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    I found this Feb. 2014 interview with Chen Lu about her trip to Sochi: http://www.wantinews.com/news-63706...Ben-Sochi-Olympic-bid-ambassador-Chen-Lu.html
    I wasn't aware that she served as an ambassador for the Sochi bid (the first foreigner to be invited).
     
  21. whispering

    whispering Member

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    Mingzhu Li has left China ( back to the US I believe), her contract ended in April. It seems nobody knows who will coach the girls of the national team.After Kexin zhang retires, only Zijun Li and Ziquan Zhao stay in the team,so maybe the Fed won't seek for a new head coach but rather let these two keep training with Chengjiang Li or other local coaches.

    Like feraina said, Lu Chen wasn't familiar with the new COP rules, and made a lot of ridiculous mistakes throughout. I don't think she is a very good candidate for the head coach job as she considered Maxim Kovtun is very artistic and expressive;)
     
  22. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm.. maybe Brian Orser as coach?;)
     
  23. feraina

    feraina Well-Known Member

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    Oh, my God, that would be amazing. He'd get her to train properly and also improve her skating skills. But alas... I don't think the Chinese federation can afford Orser. Mingzhu Li hinted in some interviews that she took a significant pay cut to come back and coach the national team, out of patriotism. I'm afraid Zijun will have a very rocky road ahead now...
     
  24. Lara

    Lara Well-Known Member

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    I've said it before but I'll be so disappointed if Zijun falls by the wayside. :( Fingers crossed she can make it through this rough time. And agree that Orser would be fantastic.
     
  25. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    I am under the impression that the Chinese Fed takes care of all training expenses just like in Russia. It helps to generate more elite athletes under this system compared to countries where the parents have to foot the training bills unless the athlete is 'lucky' enough to get income from advertisers to pay for their training bills. So it's really up to the Chinese Fed whether they are willing to pay for the training. I think Javi's and Hanyu's expenses were paid by their Feds? Zijun has great potential to advance a lot more. She is also blessed with very good looks.
     
  26. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Han YAN is scheduled to spend six weeks in Canada (May-June) following Yuna Kim's shows in Korea. I assume he will have new programs choreographed by Lori Nichol again? The "Han Yan Fan Van" Twitter account posted Han's off-season schedule plan: http://pic.twitter.com/bBsbfBlCAL
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2014
  27. rosewood

    rosewood Well-Known Member

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    Although Hanyu was one of the Great Earthquakes victims, he/his family had to pay more than a half of his expenses before belonging to All Nippon Airways, I guess. That's one of the reasons why he skated in maaany shows.(His father is a high school teacher who is working in the affected area.) Anyway it might be the right time for Zijun to think about training out of China. Shame Kexin is retiring. Wish we'll see her competing for a couple more seasons.
     
  28. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    But does she get to make that decision?
     
  29. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    feraina, thank you so much for all of this background information. My guess is that Li Chengjiang is going to take over as head coach now and he'll probably get some assistants to help out.

    I have no idea how well he can coach but I think that he was a fantastic competitor, very under-appreciated and under-marked. He was a good example of somebody who showed programs in character of the music, could move in time to it, yet that never got reflected in the presentation mark, probably because of a lack of a balletic and classical style.

    As for Yan Han, I don't think that Lori Nichol has played to his strengths particularly well when choreographing his programs for this season. I would have preferred to see somebody else work with him (and the Ladies) for a change.

    As for Zhang Kexin, I am sorry to say but I really hope that she does retire. She doesn't seem to enjoy skating at all and I can't recall another skater who would show such a complete lack of projection and performance skills. She doesn't seem happy and it might be for the best to move on to something different.
     
  30. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    This. I'm still wuzrobbing him from 2003 Worlds.
     
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