Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by jjane45, Oct 4, 2012.
Ziggy excited about Wangs. Imagine that.
And they are in sync in their crossovers! I was during the parts of the program where they weren't doing elements. Now if Sui doesn't outgrow Han.
I read an interview quoting Hongbo saying that the five young teams spend the morning doing skating skill lessons. They also have core strength training and dance training. That might explain the changes we see here. Even for Hao Zhang, Hongbo has been trying to loosen his upper body stiffness through modern dance training. It also helps that Xue Shen was there helping the girls with throw landings and refine body movement. In addition, they have a ice dance coach and Nan Song's coach to help the girls' jumps. So it seems they are really serious about getting the new batch out there with good skills and polish. Way to go!
Major kudos to P&T for skating so well depsite being so severely injured. They have great programs this season, and the injury really allowed them to work more on expressions, unison and finetuning all those little details.
That's excellent. It's time to have a structured approach when it comes to training top national competitors. You don't come across a pair like Shen & Zhao or Pang & Tang every day.
I would also like the Chinese Fed to hire someone from overseas to work on the crossovers of all top Chinese skaters (maybe sans Yan Han). The abundance of sloppy forward crossovers with bad posture hurt my soul. All the single skaters (again, maybe sans Yan Han) also need dance and music lessons and be whipped everytime they skate through music.
Thank you for the info, skatingfanfun!
Hao Zhang might need to do some work, but I can see him thriving with modern dance lessons. At early as 2006 Skate Canada in Victoria, where Gary Beacom did group choreography for the gala, you could see that he could really boogie when given a chance to let loose, and he looked like he was having a great time. I've always wished he could do a competitive program that would showcase this.
Thank you for this information. They are finally getting it right! I remember a Chinese poster saying that they watched Luan Bo's practice and all her teams were doing was jumps. Sui/Han always had incredible potential and a lot of personality but they were so unpolished. Fortunately Zhao and Shen are using all of their experience and working on the whole package and not just the big tricks. The Ice Dance coach that is part of the team is Han Bing, I think.
Yes, this approach is needed all across and not just in Pairs. I guess Pair skating is getting the most resources though given it's their best discipline.
Please don't give them such ideas. I am sure the training in china is sadistic enough even without your suggestions.
You're welcome kwuanfan and Ziggy! I was so excited about the young Chinese pairs' performances that I went to Chinese website to dig out information about their training and preparations.
The new coaching structure sure shows positive results! I'm impressed by Sui/Han and P/Z, but most excited about the Wangs! The basic skating is quite decent besides their outstanding performance skills. They are by far the the most natural performers among Chinese teams, including the past top three. Looking forward to their development, they could do fairly well in the World next year if they got to go, but I don't think so. Hopefully P/Z and Sui/Han can earn 3 spots but still the Wangs might not be going as there is another pair that is quite good in Junior level that should be old enough to move to senior. What a change. I thought Chinese pair skating was done after the big three, now there are just not enough spot to show all the decent teams, something to worry about but better than there is not enough to send.
I wonder what is happening with Yu/Jin who also trained with Bo Luan.
I was totally kidding. But it does bug me a lot to see Zhang Kexin land her jumps, do her spins but ignore everything else. She is the Chinese Leonova.
I have never seen a skater as thoroughly disinterested in their own performance as Zhang Kexin.
Last season I thought she lost her spirit because the federation was politiking hard for Li Zijun and ignoring her. But I thought they worked it out and she resumed training and went to Worlds.
The fact that she is still skating like that this season means one or more of the following:
1. she really is disinterested
2. she is a huge introvert
3. she doesn't get music or expression
4. she is all focused on her jumps because she has significantly upgraded her content
I think its a combination of all of the above, with an emphasis on 4. I don't expect her to turn into a Proklova over night, but at least smile or flick an arm once a while?
It was a pain to watch Kexin. She used to be a bit better, at least not skating with two fists. I wanted to scream when she didn`t make an effort to make any of her choreographed move meaningful, what a waste. I believe she got her programs from Lori too. Come on girl, give it a try.
I think Boyang Jin is worse...
in the junior grand prix luan was with them; so we'll see. for sure she really wants to hang on to this couple, if she even has lost the other
I think it's no.4 and no.2! I hope she'll get better as her skating improved.
Boyang is very young. I think the training in China puts emphasis on technical skills first before emphazising 'artistic' skills.
Kexin has a neurological issue that causes her hands and fingers to tremble so that she has no control over them. The doctors can't figure out what's wrong. So for now she has to skate with fists. Obviously it affects her presentation overall as well.
Really? Which video? I think they've moved over to zhao hongbo's group in Beijing. Hence the major improvement in skating skills and presentation.
here's the video of their last free skate at jgp
the woman at the boards seems to be bo luan or?
Ah, I had no idea. That is horrible.
I read somewhere that Y/J did move to Zhao, but Luan Bo just traveled with them to competitions b/c Zhao was busy with the seniors.
okay, that might be and would be such a gradation; in their isu bio bo luan is still listed as their head coach, but we know how not up to date these bios are sometimes
progress with y/j is obvious, whoever caused that, good job. this pair is promising.
Y/J were at the open practices in Beijing along with the other couples coached by Zhao (Luan Bo coaches in Harbin). I think Luan Bo was given the task of taking the junior pairs teams to the JGPs while Zhao worked with the others in Beijing (and waited for Shen Xue to give birth!). Luan works for the Chinese federation after all, and one of the junior pairs still trains with her, so it makes sense.
I know! Obviously she is not particularly naturally talented with presentation and musicality, but it takes real mental toughness to concentrate on her technical elements when she has this neurological issue that no one can diagnose or treat, and which is just getting worse and worse. I would totally be freaked out!
I am very happy that Y/J have also been pulled to Yao Bin's team. Bo Luan obviously is not Chinese Federation's favourite but so far she's failed where Yao Bin succeeded. She needs to change her attitude and start seeing the bigger picture.
For a while, though, Yao Bin didn't have much success in finding anyone after the Zhangs, while Bo Luan looked like she was bringing up some talented Juniors, like Wing/Lowe are doing in Canada and Nina Mozer did for years in Russia. Ding/Ren won two Jr. Worlds medals in the early 00's, Sui/Han were her team until this season, Yu/Jin have done very well, including making JGPF for the last two seasons and winning both of their JGP events this season. Her teams have a lot more expression from the start than Bin Yao's have, and I doubt she's had the same support and infrastructure as Bin Yao.
I'm excited to hear about the program he's finally implemented -- I wouldn't be surprised if Hongbo Zhao has had a lot to do with it, and Pang/Tong are good role models in that regard -- and that his training methods aren't as frightening as Bo Luan's, but she has had some success along the way when he had it with no new teams.
I think Luan Bo and Yao Bin both have their strengths and weaknesses. They both teach great twists and throws. Yao Bin's couples have better basic skating skills and single jumps; Luan Bo's couples have better chemistry and personal relationships. For yea's, YB's couples had good technical elements but didn't relate to each other well on ice (S/Z and P/T both developed their chemistry very late, while Z/Z never found it), whereas both S/H and Y/J have good on-ice chemistry and off-ice relationship -- the male partners are all super sweet and protective of their female partners, which is so nice to see.
But Zhao's coaching style seems to combine the best of both worlds: great techniques and great personal relationships.
I would say that prior to joining Zhao's group, S/H were regressing due to injuries (Sui's injury was in large part due to over-training of the quad-twists and quad-throws that Luan was making them repeat over and over; and it was said on Chinese skating forums that Luan sent Sui home and off the ice for a month or more because she didn't like Sui's attitude, and that this is a rather common method for punishment in her group), and Y/J had largely stalled. Y/J's poor skating skills were keeping them back: until this season, they hadn't improved since their GP debut in 2011.
Luan certainly has had some success with junior couples, but in part it's because she's in charge of pairs coaching in Harbin, the hometown for the majority of competitive Chinese skaters. Every pairs skater from Harbin probably has to go through her group at some point. I'm really glad for S/H and Y/J that they now have Zhao's guidance.
Hopefully Luan learns something positive from this experience: how to help her remaining pairs improve using methodology similar to those that have helped S/H and Y/J improve so much so quickly.
Actually, the Singing in the Rain program was skated last season by Wang Lei with his previous partner Zhang Yue. So it was definitely not a program designed for Wang and Wang. I think it just goes to show how amazing Wang Xuehan is! I really enjoyed seeing their interactions just after finishing their programs and in the KnC. Despite being quite a few years older, Wang Lei was very solicitous and even affectionate with Wang Xuehan (I'd never before seen a Chinese male pair skater proactively holding the girl's hand in the KnC unless they were romantically involved).