Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by jjane45, Oct 4, 2012.
All of these are weird decisions, what on earth for?!
Why doesn't this surprise me? Yan Han had to 'wait for his turn' as well.
And what about Huang/Zheng?
But yes, it's great to see China finally sending three teams out there, given how few opportunities their Ice Dance teams usually get (the same three teams competed at the Winter Universiade as well).
Huang/Zheng will compete in Sochi and that will be their last competition.
Thanks. They've had a very long career. I hope they stay involved in skating. China needs more coaches to boost its Ice Dance program.
For men, Han Yan probably wants a warmup before Sochi to work toward clean programs; Nan Song needs to go as it will be his last ISU championship comp this season (I assume Yan will be sent to 2014 WC as well); it is also Wang Yi's only chance to work on his world standing and SB and a chance at a GP next year. Boyang Jin will likely get at least one GP invitation based on JGPF and JW performance, plus another host pick next year, and he should be able to use JW to work on his world rankings.
For pairs, the Beijing coaches (Hongbo Zhao and Bin Yao) are probably going to be focusing on the Sochi teams (Pang/Tong & Peng/Zhang), so the 4CC pairs will be accompanied by Luan Bo -- Wang & Zhang are currently Bo's team, and Y/J & S/H were both her former students, so it makes sense for them to go. Wang/Wang have never worked with Bo, so it would've been a little weird. Too bad for W/W. But a good opportunity for W/Z; after this season, it may be very hard for them to get any more international competition opportunities; doing well at 4CC could help them next season.
In dance, Y/W may have already retired, and H/Z are focusing on Sochi. So three young teams are being sent for development, which is awesome, because China has a lot of young dance teams, and competition opportunities are very rare.
Just received an article about the Chinese Olympic Figure Skating team in a newsletter from Jo Ann Schneider Farris. Posting the link here in case anyone wishes to read it.
Thanks, Simone411. So Zijun Li *did* make the team. She must have done well in any test skate that occured. Good for her.
ITA! I'm glad Zijun Li made it.
Zijun Still sending healing vibes to her, Osmond, and Carolina.
Sui & Han just won 4CCs again with a total score of 212.4. This is ranked 4th on the season bests total score for pairs.
So who are the teams ahead of them? V/T and S/S, obviously. Who else?
Did they also beat out Pang/Tong? I can't believe P/T hung on for this long. Their programs at Vancouver were stunning, and personally I thought they deserved the gold for their two flawless programs (and the record-setting FS). But it's clear that was their peak, and it's sad seeing them trying to fight against age and injuries to slowly go down in the standings. They've come out stronger than expected this season, but they didn't compete that much, and they benefited from opponents not yet peaking this season. I worry that they will be well off the podium in Sochi, when their own sbs jumps are so touch-and-go and the throws are prone to double-footing. On the other hand, their opponents might finally skate well (besides V/T and S/S, the top Canadians and Stolbova/Klimov are clearly starting to hit their stride). So it will more likely end up a disappointment for them than not.
Of course, all true competitors will want to give their best shot, even if the odds are long, even if their bodies are not always cooperating, so I understand their drive to go to one last Olympics. But I wonder, if they had known four years ago, that the best they could shoot for is another bronze, whether they would have gone on for four years...
I am very sad for Sui/Han that despite having so much potential and skating so well at 4CC, that they won't have a chance at Sochi. But I'm heartened by the fact that after the SP, Han said in the press conference that even though they scored a PB, they could still make the elements so much better, and they are working to improve their SS and presentation. I love their attitude!
Yan Han's Interview before Sochi Olympic Games (in Chinese with English subtitles)
Bumping this back up to post links to a national competition, April 12-13, in Harbin:
Entries (in Chinese)
Han YAN is one of the listed competitors.
Is there another (working) link on YouTube? I'd like to watch this. TIA!
ETA major 2014 international competition results for the Chinese skaters/teams:
3 Nan SONG CHN 236.09 3 3
7 Jinlin GUAN CHN 214.26 9 6
16 Yi WANG CHN 179.52 17 16
3 Zijun LI CHN 181.56 2 3
11 Kexin ZHANG CHN 157.57 12 11
15 Ziquan ZHAO CHN 142.32 13 16
1 Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN CHN 212.40 1 1
7 Wenting WANG / Yan ZHANG CHN 139.95 6 6
8 Yiyi ZHANG / Nan WU CHN 116.34 9 8
9 Shiyue WANG / Xinyu LIU CHN 115.66 7 9
11 Yue ZHAO / Chang LIU CHN 99.84 13 12
7 YAN Han CHN 246.20 8 7
14 LI Zijun CHN 168.30 11 14
15 ZHANG Kexin CHN 154.21 14 15
4 PANG Qing / TONG Jian CHN 209.88 4 3
8 PENG Cheng / ZHANG Hao CHN 195.72 7 8
23 HUANG Xintong / ZHENG Xun CHN FNR 23
6 Boyang JIN CHN 203.64 2 6
11 He ZHANG CHN 180.35 8 13
17 Wenbo ZANG CHN 163.20 20 18
25 Ziquan ZHAO CHN FNR 25 (1 lady)
1 Xiaoyu YU / Yang JIN CHN 173.77 1 1 (1 pair)
19 Yue ZHAO / Chang LIU CHN 99.00 17 20 (1 ice dance team)
7 Han YAN CHN 231.91 5 11
17 Zijun LI CHN 150.34 16 17
5 Cheng PENG / Hao ZHANG CHN 194.83 5 5
6 Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN CHN 192.10 4 9
(No ice dance team)
Pairs entries are
Wenting Wang/Yan Zhang
WenJing Sui/Cong Han
Xiaoyu Yu/Jin Yang
Cheng Peng/Hao Zhang
Xuehan Wang/Lei Wang
Sui Jia Ying/Yang YungChao
Can anyone translate 弃权 which is listed after these two pairs? Does it mean they are split or injured or just that they chose not to attend?
Mingyang Zhang/Xie Zhong
Xiaoxue Chen/Wen Xiong Guo
Han YAN did not compete. Can someone confirm whether or not these SP placements are correct? I haven't been able to find a link to official results/scores.
Nan Song (4T+3T, 3A, 3Lz fall): http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjk3OTY3Nzk2.html
Boyang Jin (3A, 4T<?, 3Lz+3T): http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjk3OTYzMjA0.html
Yuhang Guan (4T+3T, 3Lo, 2A): http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjk4MDE1MjY4.html
Jinlin Guan (video?)
He Zhang (2A, 3F+3T, 3Lo): http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjk4MDE0NTY4.html
Yi Wang http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjk4MDE1OTA0.html
Tangxu Li http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjk4MDE3NTM2.html
Yan Hao http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjk4MDE2NTgw.html
Xiaoyu Yu/Yang Jin http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjk3OTY2NzYw.html
Xuehan Wang/Lei Wang http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjk4MDEyNDEy.html
Wenjing Sui/Cong Han http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjk4MDEzMjI4.html
Zijun Li http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjk3OTY1OTEy.html
Ziquan Zhao http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjk4MDEwODY0.html
Xiangning Li http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjk4MDExNjgw.html / ISU bio
I think it means WD.
From a Chinese skating forum:
1 李子君 (Li Zijun) 57.41
2 赵子荃 (Zhao Ziquan) 49.25
3 李香凝 (Li Xiangning) 49.18
9 郭晓雯 (Guo Xiaowen) 37.59
12 王佳磊 (Wang Jialei) 28.23
13 张可欣 (Zhang Kexin) 退赛 (WD)
1 于小雨/金杨 (Yu/Jin) 39.11 + 27.66 = 66.77 3t 3tw 3loth
2 王雪涵/王磊 (Wang/Wang) 37.93 + 25.36 = 63.29 3tw 3t 3loth
3 隋文静/韩聪 (Sui/Han) 34.70 + 27.46 - 1.00 = 61.16 3fth 搭冰 (2ft) 3t she fall 3tw
4 王文婷/张岩 (Wang/Zhang) 32.31 + 21.46 = 53.77 3tw 3s he hand on 3oth
7 彭程/张昊 (Peng/Zhang) 退赛 (WD)
Thank you, feraina! Please post if you find other results online.
I came across 2 tweets about the Men's FS:
1宋楠 (Song Nan) 47.59+35.17 -1.00 =81.76 4t3t 3a 3lz fall
2金博洋 (Jin Boyang) 41.79+31.92 -0.00 =73.713a 4t 双足 3lz3t so
3关宇航 (Guan Yuhang) 39.40 +31.01 -0.00 =70.41 4t3t 3lo 2a
4关金林 (Guan Jinlin) 36.17 +32.41 -1.00 =67.58 3a fall 3f3t 3lz
5张鹤 (Zhang He) 32.78 +30.74 -0.00 =63.52 2a 3f3t 3lo
6王一 (Wang Yi) 27.76 +31.42 -0.00 =59.18 2t 3a 3f2t
13 闫涵 (Yan Han) 退赛 (WD)
1 于小洋/王晨 (Yu/Wang) 48.82 + 79.23 = 128.05
2 王诗玥/柳鑫宇 (Wang/Liu) 40.64 + 78.08 = 118.72
3 张伊伊/吴楠 (Zhang/Wu) 38.75 + 72.47 = 111.22
4 陈宏/赵研 (Chen/Zhao) 38.92 + 65.23 = 104.15
5 宋林书/刘雨 (Song/Liu) 37.68 + 65.13 = 102.81
Ladies Total = SP + LP (TES + PCS - ded.)
1 李子君 (Li Zijun) 156.01 = 57.41 + 98.60 ( 47.53 + 51.07 - 0.00 ) -- clean but no 3-3 nor 2A-3T
2 李香凝 (Li Xiangning)142.02 = 49.18 + 92.84 ( 48.05 + 44.79 - 0.00 ) -- she successfully landed her first 3loop in competition!
3 李佳殷 (Li Jia__?) 133.16 = 48.03 + 85.13 ( 43.27 + 41.86 - 0.00 )
4 赵子荃 (Zhao Ziquan) 133.08 = 49.25 + 83.83 ( 40.50 + 45.33 - 2.00 )
5 焦云雅 (Jiao Yunya) 123.74 = 44.24 + 79.50 ( 39.51 + 39.99 - 0.00 )
6 郑璐 (Zhen Lu) 122.48 = 41.99 + 80.49 ( 45.89 + 35.60 - 1.00 )
7 郭晓雯 (Guo Xiaowen) 117.19 = 37.59 + 79.60 ( 39.67 + 40.93 - 1.00 ) -- she skated well at CoC, too bad she seemed to have peaked there
Pairs Total = SP + LP (TES + PCS - ded)
1 于小雨/金杨 (Yu/Jin) 184.92 = 66.77 + 118.15 ( 58.01 + 60.14 - 0.00 )
2 隋文静/韩聪 (Sui/Han) 176.56 = 61.16 + 115.40 ( 53.80 + 61.60 - 0.00 )
3 王雪涵/王磊 (Wang/Wang) 172.12 = 63.29 + 108.83 ( 54.63 + 55.2 - 1.00 )
4 隋嘉莹/杨泳超 (Sui/Yang) 143.87 = 47.26 + 96.61 ( 58.07 + 38.54 - 0.00 )
5 王文婷/张岩 (Wang/Zhang) 142.57 = 53.77 + 88.80 ( 46.73 + 45.07 - 3.00 )
6 范鑫鑫/刘鑫泽 (Fan/Liu) 115.30 = 43.05 + 72.25 ( 42.31 + 30.94 - 1.00 )
于小雨/金杨 (Y/J) 3t 2aseq2a 3tw 3loth 3sth 搭冰 (foot down) pair cosp 脱手 (hands separate)
隋文静/韩聪 3tw 3t2t2t 2s 3fth di第二个托举失败 (2nd lift failed) 3sth turn
王雪涵/王磊 3tw 3t she fall 3or2s 3sth 3loth hand on
隋嘉莹/杨泳超 4tw 2lo2t2t 2fth 2loth
王文婷/张岩 3tw 3s 2aseq2a he singel first 3fth doulble feet 3loth
范鑫鑫/刘鑫泽 2tw 2sth 2a she fall 2lo2t 2loth
Wang/Zhang fell during a lift, video here:
I think Wang ended up going to the hospital?
Men Total = SP + LP (TES)
1 宋楠 (Song Nan) 241.88 = 81.76 + 160.12 ( 84.46 )
2 金博洋 (Jin Boyang) 226.12 = 73.71 + 152.41 ( 83.75 )
3 关金林 (Guan Jinlin) 208.87 = 67.58 + 141.29 ( 70.61 )
4 张鹤 (Zhang He) 202.74 = 63.52 + 139.22 ( ??.?? ) -- apparently he landed his first 4T in competition
5 关宇航 (Guan Yuhang) 199.66 = 70.41 + 129.25 ( 62.89 )
6 王一 (Wang Yi) 195.70 = 59.18 + 136.52 ( 70.36 )
Zhang Kexin is rumored to be mulling retirement (for the third time). She really doesn't look like she has any fun on ice...
Why did Peng/Zhang withdraw? Does anyone know?
I hope this news is related to the thread. If not, I will delete it.
Adam Rippon twitted he is going to China for ice shows. Does anyone know details on these shows?
Adam Rippon ‏@Adaripp
On my way to Zhengzhou, China for a fun week of shows! First stop... Shanghai.
Nathan Chen's official website lists his next event as "The World Ice Arena Ice Show, April 19-21, 2014, Zhengzhou, China." I Googled and came up with this page for the Zhengzhou Champion Skating Rink but no info about ice shows there next week. If anyone else knows or comes across additional info, please share.
I hope she's okay! Thanks for finding/posting the competition results and details.
Not surprising. I believe she was convinced to stay for Sochi only and that's why she didn't even go to Worlds. In any event, China is down to 1 lady for 2015 Worlds and they are not going to leave Li Zijun off the team anyway.
Does anyone know if Shen is coaching with Zhao? I've seen him with skaters, but not her. Maybe she wants to stay home with her baby girl for the time being?
Thanks a lot!
Oh wow, Yu & Jin beat Sui & Han?!?! Wangs 3rd, they were so good at their GP event, glad to see them staying ahead of these other teams here and taking 2nd in the sp
I am also very impressed by this. I like Yu/Jin a lot. They have developed a great chemistry on ice, a good feel for the music, thoughtful/completed movements, good synchrony. They hit a plateau with their previous coach (as did Sui/Han), but they've really blossomed under the guidance of Zhao/Shen. In fact, I see greater improvement in them than in Sui/Han after one season with their new coaches. It may be that their never having been under serious consideration for the Olympics/Worlds was a blessing in disguise, that allowed them to focus their energy on really getting better in all aspects of their skating, rather than on getting specific competition outcomes. I'm so happy for them that they are finally junior world champions, out of the shadow of S/H and of the Russian pairs. I think they could do very well on the senior circuit next year, especially given their amazing consistency recently.
I also really like S/H and W/W. As much as Peng/Zhang have improved this season, I can't see them lasting until the next Olympics. If one believes Trankov, he said Zhang mentioned that he intends to teach Peng everything he knows and helping her to find a new partner. I think his experience and steadiness really helped P/Z to do so well in this olympic season, but I think the next quad probably belongs to S/H, Y/J, and W/W. I just don't know which guy Peng can skate with after Zhang... Maybe one of the male single skaters who have great presentation/SS and without reliable 3A/quad. Zhang He comes to mind (17), but he's still fairly short. Guan Jinlin is another possibility but he's almost 25. I don't know. There are just so few good male skaters in China to choose from, especially if they have to also be tall and young...
Too bad Misha Ge is not taller/younger... Although maybe he loves the limelight too much to be willing to share it with a partner or, worse, play a supporting role.
Choosing a male pair partner from singles does not always work out. It did work out well for Vasessa James, but not so well for Jessica Dube. And it doesn't seem to work out for Narumi Takahashi either...It is lots to learn (lifts, death spiral, spin together, throws, twists) and it seems that it is easier if pair male teaches a female skater from singles, than if pair female teaches a male skater from singles.
Besides, no matter what Zhangs intention were (teach Peng and then pass her over), it will be the the Federation who will say what happens, not Zhang. so my guess is that Zhang will last for another 4 years, the same way Pang-Tong had to.
It depends on the singles skater. Marinin went to Pairs only when, as a teenager, he started to be beaten in singles by the 12-year-old Plushenko. John Baldwin was a singles skater, too, as many North American Pairs men have been. Tran was recruited from the singles ranks to skate Pairs, and he has the disadvantage of being relatively short. Kihara didn't start learning Pairs moves until he was 20.
Peng is quite young, and finding a singles skater around her own age may work well for her, especially if Zhang can help her make the transition and work with the guy. He was a Pairs skater at a very young age, and he knows what a Pairs man is capable of physically at each age/phase. The Chinese Fed can't force a skater into Pairs, but, since elite skating is pretty much state-controlled, they can opt out of funding a singles skater who's unlikely to go far in singles, but can offer him a place as a Pairs skater. A pairing with her will guarantee resources, attention, and a chance to compete in the elite ranks.
My assumption is that Zhang will continue, just as Pang/Tong and Shen/Zhao did. If he is in decent shape physically and wants to go on, I'm sure they will put their trust in him, considering the success he's already brought to the Chinese pairs program. But the question is, what kind of shape is he in at this point?--after what's already been a very long career.
My hope is that Zhao Hongbo is already considering possible new partners for Peng if Zhang can't go on. If I were Zhao, I would leave no stone unturned, nothing. This girl is very very special and, with the right partner, could be a legitimate gold-medal contender for China. Hopefully Zhao sees that and is thinking strategically.
But the discussion isn't whether it is at all possible to change singles male to pairs, (of course it is, look at Vanessa James' partner) but whether it can be done within 4 years so that Peng+singles male would be competitive at the next Olympics. Because if it can't be done into such level that they would be contenders, Chinese Federation would not allow Zhang to retire. I am sure as a long term project it is possible, but I don't think Marinin and Baldvin took only 4 years to achieve that. And Kihara is not a very good example because although he has made pretty good progress, watching their skating at Olympics and thinking that the girl is past bronze world champion...well, I am sure you saw it yourself.
I think they would probably have to split some younger pair to give her a partner than to choose from singles. At least the male would know the pair elements. 4 years is in my view not enough time to teach singles male everything to such level that the pair would be contender. They could be decent, but not as good as if the male partner was not having to learn pair elements from zero.
I doubt they'll split her from Zhang. Peng used to have a very good partner who was close to her age, if she was just going to skate with Zhang for a year or two and then want a partner like she had, why split in the first place. Someone posted here that he was so unhappy with the split he quit skating.
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