China - The new force in singles?

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Hedwig, Oct 5, 2011.

  1. Yukari Lepisto

    Yukari Lepisto Active Member

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    This is most likely what they're going to do. But if they want to fight for a 2nd spot for 2013 worlds, it'd make more sense for them to send Han Yan though. While Nan Song did awesome at cup of china, but i just think that's just one perfect skate for him, not something he can do consistently. And the chance for him to get to top 10 at worlds is very slim.
     
  2. Yukari Lepisto

    Yukari Lepisto Active Member

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    Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here. Who went home and wrote checks? and what you mean by writing checks? as in money checks? and is it two months or five months?
     
  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Yukari - Let's see how Nan Song can do at his second GP event.

    His last season was very dissapointing but the season before that he managed 2nd at JGPF and Junior Worlds.

    If he remains consistent, top 10 at Worlds definitely is possible.

    And yes, I also didn't get the checks part. What did you mean xy3026rosa?
     
  4. xy3026rosa

    xy3026rosa New Member

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    I mean Sui wrote autocriticism at home.But this is true...A close ice fan to SH said...
     
  5. Yukari Lepisto

    Yukari Lepisto Active Member

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    ohh, you meant.. self-criticism letter kinda stuff? ok, i know that's very common in China.
     
  6. feraina

    feraina Active Member

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    Well, what I read was two months this year, but altogether five months over the last two years. And yes, supposedly she was sent home to write self-criticism letters.

    I also read that where Luan Bo is, there aren't other pairs coaches, so anyone with an interest in pairs skating gets sent to her, hence she has so many couples (11.5). And also that because pairs skating is the most popular discipline in China, kids start with pairs instead of switching from singles, so her kids tend to not have good singles skating skills when they join her group -- unlike, say, the pairs that go to Bin Yao. Among S/Z, P/T, Z/Z, all of them switched from singles, except T, who switched from ice dancing. This might possibly, partly explain the poor skating skills and solo jumps among Luan Bo's students.

    But even if there aren't good singles coaches around, why can't her students at least get some help with skating skills from the local ice dance coaches? They might not be top ice dance coaches but at least they should know a little more about edge work and technique.
     
  7. feraina

    feraina Active Member

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    In the CoC Exhibition, Nan Song landed a 4T and 3A (falling on a second 3A); and afterwards he did another 4T. His jumps are obviously very consistent right now. Han Yan (also performing in the EX), in contrast, had a lot of trouble with his (simpler) jumps in his program. I think right now maybe Nan Song is a little more consistent than Han Yan. Han Yan always makes me nervous in his competitive programs. I feel like he's always on the edge of making errors, and if he does clean program than it's a huge relief.
     
  8. feraina

    feraina Active Member

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    National Championship

    I don't know how much diplomatic power the skating federation has. Usually visa problems are due to delays at the foreign country's embassy/consulate. I mean, Chinese skaters have always had to deal with visa issues since the beginning. I imagine that by now the federation must have well-used procedures in place to deal with it.
     
  9. feraina

    feraina Active Member

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    There is very little money in Chinese skating, and the skaters' families cannot afford to send their kids abroad. I read that Nobuo Sato gave some seminars in China last summer (sounded like just a few days, if that many). Maybe sending Chinese skaters to Sato for a month in the off season is more realistic than sending them to Europe/NA.

    Although surprisingly, the Chinese federation sent Zijun Li, Bingwa Geng, and Kexin Zhang to LA to train with Mingzhu Li a few years ago before any of these girls had any competitive success. Maybe Mingzhu Li did it for a discount. Maybe it's also a language/culture thing. If there were good Chinese coaches working abroad in other disciplines, maybe the federation would also be willing to invest in sending young skaters abroad in those disciplines too. Lu Chen and Denis Petrov have a rink in the south of China and do coaching there. I'm a little surprised that none of the top Chinese skaters ever go to them to help. That seems like such an obvious resource. Maybe Lu Chen and the Chinese federation never got over their bitter spat.
     
  10. sharonz

    sharonz New Member

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    feraina, many thanks for answering the questions about NC for me.

    I have to clear one thing. Yan's skate boot had a big cut just before the gala, that he had no time to fix it. He even said that he might only attemp single jumps in the show:D. So, I'm not surprised at the jump problems there. He just began to include 4T and 3A in his program from this season. The inconsistent issue is expected. Skaters like him, who have great SS and spead, seem to always have landing issues, ex. Patrick C.. Maybe it is harder to control the landing with more speed? And Yes, at this moment, Song looks more consistent with his jumps, but his SS is much worse than Yan's. I still wanna wait to see his second GP and Yan's performance at JGPF to determine who is a more reasonable choice. But I think whatever the result is, Chinese federation has already decided to send Song to WC, and Yan to JW.
     
  11. rouge

    rouge New Member

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    I didn't count him in for he's very unlikely from mainland China judging from his name. If anyone knows more details please correct me :lol:
    Also I don't like He Zhang's FS this season quite much. It doesn't suit him as well as the short IMHO and arguably ripped off Han Yan's Rhapsody in Blue FS two seasons ago (a bit different music cut, some elements at different places, opening and ending are quite the same, can't remember the details of the step sequences though). I guess it's Elvin Wong who choreographed his SP, and someone else did the FS, basing on Han Yan's program. If it was true, it's frustrating because a very promising and expressive young skater like He Zhang deserves his "own" program.

    Jiaxing Liu said a couple of days ago that he has started skating a new free program. I wonder why he didn't change FS before his JGP competition, but better late than never.

    Maybe also she and Mingzhu Li.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
  12. Hedwig

    Hedwig Rarely here anymore but I try to be better!

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    sorry, I wasn't clear in my post. I was wondering if Eislauffan would do a tour through China through the different training centers in the off season and get some reports for us. :)
     
  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to all the Chinese posters for the inside info. :respec:

    We don't usually get much information about Chinese skating and it's great to be able to find out more. :)

    Exactly. Chinese federation really should intervene here.

    What do you mean when saying Bo Luan has 11.5 pairs? She has 11 pairs and one skater looking for a partner?
     
  14. sharonz

    sharonz New Member

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    Correct. She teaches 11 pairs, and also 1 boy who still has not found a partner. So, totally 11.5 pairs :p
     
  15. Yukari Lepisto

    Yukari Lepisto Active Member

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    lol, one person 11.5 pairs... that's way crazier than marina/igor! haha
     
  16. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    I really wish they could get Sui some basics training because it's obvious the girl is a very talented and charismatic performer. But poor basics will hold them back eventually.
     
  17. Yukari Lepisto

    Yukari Lepisto Active Member

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    I also hope that someone can tell Sui that moving her head this much is very very distracting. It might look cute now cause she's very young, people might think that's adorable, but that's something that needs to be changed. Every single program they skate to, doesn't matter the content or the kind of music, she's always moving/shaking/whatever her head wayyyyy to much.
     
  18. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    She has an assistant coach now.

    I take it you've never seen one coach training 40-60 skaters on one session then? :p

    Pretty stantard in Poland and I am sure that also in many other places, where ice time is limited and there's a lack of funding.

    No, it doesn't need to be changed. You're talking about a personal preference.

    As long as it suits the music (and it does because they always skate upbeat programs), it's actually a good thing that ticks the PCS boxes.

    And please, I'd much rather see skaters move any part of their body, to intepret the music and make the program more complex, than just skate through their music.
     
  19. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    thanks for this post!
     
  20. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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  21. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully this breakdown in Component Scores from Han Yan's LP at the Junior Grand Prix Final is a good wake up call for the Chinese Federation to get him good packaging starting next season..

    SS TR PE CH IN
    7.21 5.68 6.46 6.25 6.32
     
  22. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    He and He Chong are by far my favorite Chinese male skaters at the moment. Professional choreographers for the whole Chinese team will go a looong way. If things go the way they are supposed to, 3 Chinese men at Sochi is not impossible.
     
  23. sharonz

    sharonz New Member

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    I still feel the PCS for Yan's LP is strangely low, compared to what he got at JGPs. I can accept lower TR score than Jason or Joshua's, but no way it is below 6s. The damage is done. I am fine with the result that he missed the top of the podium, but really worried about his scoring at Junior World Championship. He is the talent should be treasured by the country. If there is any Chinese single skater who will stand on the podium of world class competition, that will be Yan. Hope the Chinese federation won't ruin him.
     
  24. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    I thought his PCS were quite inflated during the JGP to be honest. The set that he received at JGPF is more reflective of what's being done on the ice. Fantastic skating skills, but pretty meh programs.
     
  25. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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  26. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

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    Gosh, I often wondered WHY there seemed to be little to no follow through from the brilliant career that Chen Lu had over a decade ago. Much in the vein of how a generation of young athletes can emerge in the wake of a break through champion (Bjorn Borg in tennis, followed by a wave of next generations champions such as Edberg, Wilander, etc) I was definitely surprised that there was never an "echo" generation so to speak.

    Will be interesting to see if the combination of YuNa's commanding presence and achievements, coupled with the 2018 Olympics being in South Korea, what the current crop of 11 and 12 year old girls is dreaming about for 2018 and when/whether we will see evidence of this ... 2014? 2015?
     
  27. luenatic

    luenatic Well-Known Member

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    Now the Junior season is over, I'm glad Han Yan finished on top. :)
     
  28. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    And now the question is:

    Will he compete in Senior events next season or will the Chinese federation pick the "Sui/Han" route? :shuffle:
     
  29. sequinsgalore

    sequinsgalore Member

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    Only pairs are allowed to compete on both JGP's and senior GP's at the same time. But he could return to Junior Worlds, as China has three spots in mens.
     
  30. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I know. So the question is: Will he be doing SGP next season or will the federation return him to JGP, hoping he could win two events and then the final? :scream:

    As for Junior Worlds, they'll most likely send him again (and again). :p

    What I think is really holding Chinese skating back is the "YOU ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH" mentality. Chinese skaters have to prove themselves many times over before they get sent anywhere and then it's Hotel California. :p