China - The new force in singles?

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Hedwig, Oct 5, 2011.

  1. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    I can't believe that Boyang Jin wasn't selected for JGP after how well he has skated at the Asian Trophy.

    He's the one to look out for, for sure.

    China is going to have a lot of success in the singles in the upcoming years, definitely.

    Notice how the younger generation can not only jump, but they have MUCH better basics too. I am very impressed by Han Yan's skating skills, for example.

    Ice Dance is the only discipline left to be cracked. Having to skate to European rhythms/dances works against them there, though.
     
  2. luCN

    luCN New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    471
    Glad to see more chinese skaters have good performaces on the competitions,then we have more chance to see figure skating events on TV.Now,even for the COC,sometimes we only see the pair and women competition,others only on online TV.

    Han Yan improve a lot through the years.his idol is Chan,and he's similar to him on skating skills,and...at the same time have the bad side——his 3A is unconsistent- -hope he can improve it in the future...Zijun Li is still too young,I can't hope much from her now.Yuna is her idol.He Zhang's spin is pretty good,his idol is Daisuka and Chan.

    yeah,I'm glad they choose this way-training on besic skating skills first,and improve the jumps step by step.not like before,all the attention paid on quads.pay more attention to the aritisty side,and have better programs,better costume,better performance...
    I always think Ice Dance need the best skating skills,so it's more difficult for a team which don't have much experience.I think they need more times than the singles to improve...
     
  3. Hedwig

    Hedwig Rarely here anymore but I try to be better!

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    17,472
    But see, that is just it - I can understand one special skater to come out of country that didn't have none (like Korea) or not many before by a mixture of circumstances like in Yu-Na's case a pushing mother etc.

    But for sooo many to come out at the same time I do wonder if they somehow changed the system or if a Chinese Viktoria Volchkova suddenly started being a coach or something.
     
  4. rouge

    rouge New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4
    The girls are training with Mingzhu Li, Lu Chen's former coach. I've also noticed Chengjiang Li was in K&C with the chinese girls in several competitions, so I guess he's in the training group, too.

    The boys are training with different coaches. Han Yan and He Zhang are from different provinces. They all love Patrick Chan's skating? That sounds great. It seems that the young skaters do understand what really matters in figure skating. The coaches of young skaters have emphasized more on choreography, too. Do someone know something about Zhang Wei? I really appreaciate his work with S/H and Han Yan.

    The sport system in China hasn't changed so much. Hopefully the feds (national and local) would be patient and supportive this time.
     
  5. Eris

    Eris New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    283
    What does it mean?:shuffle:
     
  6. Hedwig

    Hedwig Rarely here anymore but I try to be better!

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    17,472
    The show program.

    Interesting that they all train with different coaches (the men). Thanks for the info, rouge.
    I had wondered if there had been a common denominator like either a common coach or some training camps or a system change or whatever but even better if there are several centres to "produce" such talented skaters.
    If you think about it - it is the same in Russia really. Almost never having been strong in ladies they had a short golden period but then regressed again (Nina Petushkova anyone? :yikes: )and now suddenly they have about 15-20 youngsters that make you forget to swallow. And it isn't just one coach but several. Okay, there is Volchkova who has really made in impact but she isn't by far the only one.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2011
  7. luCN

    luCN New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    471
    I love Wei Zhang's choreography too.He's a former ice-dancer,he didn't attend much international competitions,but won the Asian Winter Games on 1999 with Rui Wang.he always add something from ice-dance to the programs,so his choreography always feel unique from other pair or single skaters.:p
     
  8. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    9,031
    Well, so far it IS one specific skater who came out of the blue--Yan Han.

    The ladies program got Li Ming Zhu and Li Chengjiang and they're coming along nicely. The boys are doing nicely but other than Yan Han no one is dominating the JGP. The Chinese program is doing fairly well but it's expected given the number of years they have to get this going. But it's not as if the Chinese kids are dominating the JGP the way the Russian wondergirls are. JMHO, of course
     
  9. bek

    bek Guest

    It may take time. Honestly have to say though its hard for me to root for the Chinese to do well with the age cheating issues. For awhile in gymnastics I was like well they are good and liked them but I just can't stomach it anymore. But it just became impossible to be that way when you have to see talented kids left behind from some countries, while the Chinese get away with it. And this is in gymnastics, to see this happen in skating...

    Now we all have to watch Adelina, Elizaveta, etc all wait their turns and I just don't know if I can stomach watching the Chinese flaunt the rules.
     
  10. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    They have an organised system with loads of state support. I think it was just a question of time before it brought results.

    Thanks, I didn't realise that!

    Great to see that China got a homegrown choreographer too! :)

    I really hope that Sui/Han keep working with him and aren't sent out to Zueva (already started to happen that). :scream:

    It's not just Yan Han, there are more.

    Nan Song got the silver medal at the JGPF in the previous season.

    And there is Boyang Jin who is absolutely amazing for a 13-year old.

    Boyang Jin - SP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzMtbotbeOk

    Boyang Jin - FS
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go1NVYJ7iqw&
     
  11. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    9,031
    Nan Song hasn't exactly made a splash in the seniors. If Jin had done JGP and done well then things would certainly look different. :)
     
  12. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,503
    My guess now is Yan Han will get Junior Worlds again (even though he is senior eligible this year) and Nan Song will get Senior Worlds.

    Kexin Zhang looks like a frontrunner in ladies for the 1 worlds spot, but I'm thinking they will use 4CC to determine between her at Bingwa Geng for the Worlds spot
     
  13. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    Messages:
    439
    I like Geng, she is so much more expressive and put-together than Zhang, Zhang doesn't show any emotion, it's like serious face 24/7. However, at the same time Zhang is far, far more consistent in the jumps. :fragile:
     
  14. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    The problem with Chinese skating is bizarre and illogical selection rules, typical for such an authoritarian bureaucracy.

    Certain skaters are favoured whilst others aren't and I have no clue why.

    Many times in the past, skaters who have placed and scored much lower than others at 4CC ended up being selected to Worlds.

    I mean why wasn't Boyang Jin sent to JGP? :confused:

    So I wouldn't count on 4CC being used, politics will probably prevail as usual. :p

    Geng CAN be expressive but her programs don't show it off.

    I mean in her FS, she's just skating right through the music from one jump to another until the last seconds of the program (straight line steps).

    All three Chinese girls that competed at CoC had abysmal programs, consisted of simply stroking from one element to another, without any style or character.

    Why isn't Minzghu Li addressing that at all?
     
  15. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    30,944
    What an amazing kid! :eek: I will remember this name: Boyang Jin.
     
  16. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    Messages:
    439
    ITA, wasn't she the one who took Lu Chen to the US in order to get better choreography? She should know what to do...
     
  17. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    30,944
    No wonder Bingwa's coach looked so familiar. :shuffle:
     
  18. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    Messages:
    439
    I also notice that every Chinese girl's (in the Li Mingzhu camp) programs (Geng, Zhang, Li) ends with a painful-looking backbend. ALL OF THEM.
     
  19. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,503
    Also interesting to note that Chinese nationals are in September. My guess is that the results from that competition have less significance vs. other countries' nationals in determining Worlds/4CC spots.

    Furthermore, the Chinese Nationals now have an Interpretive Segment for the singles (only 6 elements + 2 times Components) that counts towards the combined score....a cynical person could think that segment is open for a little manipulation depending on skater preference...

    ETA: Han Yan's Exhibition at 2011 Cup of China
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2011
  20. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,837
    Where else are the Chinese competing during the Grand Prix circuit?
     
  21. 4rkidz

    4rkidz GPF Barcelona here I come

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2001
    Messages:
    9,707
    I agree Hedwig, the Chinese and the Russians have some great young skaters to move up and I imagine will make an impact at Sochi.. does anyone know who the chinese coaches are and what have they done differently to develop these young skaters??? I'm also very impressed at the level of artistry and beautiful lines many of these new skaters are developing as well..:)
     
  22. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2002
    Messages:
    3,976
    Boyang Jin did a quad toe in the exhibition practice at Cup of China. He was running around on the ice, having fun, not intimidated at all by the seniors. So cute.
    He told me that he was 13 at the Asian Trophy and will turn 14 in October. His coach thought he was too young for JGP, which wouldn't be the case if he was indeed born in 1997. However, Chinese sometimes "add" a year to their age (like the Koreans) if he did that he just would have turned 13. I guess we'll have to wait and see when he shows at the latest next year on the JGP what his official birthdate is. If he was too young for JGP and therefore wasn't sent then at least his dob wasn't "adapted".
     
  23. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,444
    The packaging of Nan Song, Zhang Kexin and Geng Bingwa was poor. They all have nice jumps and decent basics, but those empty and uninspiring programs, skating through the music and ugly & laboured crossovers :scream: Someone needs to fly in a foreign choreographer to station in China for at least 1 month every season. What is Tom Dickson doing these days?

    Well, at least the girls all have very pretty laybacks now.

    Perhaps this is all going to be moot when Zhang He and Li Zijun are old enough for senior Worlds (next season?). :shuffle:
     
  24. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    Zhang He doesn't have a 3a. Are you thinking of Yan Han? He's already eligible now but doesn't have a 4toe. I think that overall he's a stronger skater than Song Nan but they'll probably send him to Junior Worlds and Song will go to Senior Worlds like Seerek said.

    And yes, Li Zijun is going to blow all the Ladies out of the water next season unless puberty strikes. Although she's grown quite a bit already and seems fine so hopefully that won't be too much of an issue.
     
  25. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,444
    Zhang He and Yan Han are both great. IIRC, although Zhang He did not have the 3axel, his style along with the rest of his skating got him competitive with guys who landed 2 3axels.

    Does China only have 1 spot for men at Junior Worlds? Total shame if true.
     
  26. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2002
    Messages:
    4,448
    Since Yan finished in the top 10 last year, wouldn't China have 2 spots this year? Assuming Yan will not be sent to Sr. Worlds, he's a lock for the Jr. world team. The Chinese fed probably would prefer that if they want to get a possible 3rd spot for next season. I am not sure who will be chosen to be sent alongside Yan, though.
     
  27. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    If Boyang Jin really is too young, then I guess Han Yan and He Zhang will go to Junior Worlds.
     
  28. zebobes

    zebobes Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    540
    I'm pretty sure that Yan has a quad toe... I think he landed it on the JGP this year.
     
  29. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,444
    Yan Han was 6th at 2011 Junior Worlds IIRC and thus qualified 2 spots for Chinese men for Junior Worlds 2012.

    I think the logical candidate for that 2nd spot would be Zhang He, who narrowly lost the gold at JGP Latvia and is currently 2nd alternate to JGPF. In Latvia, he lost by less than 1 point to someone who landed 2 3axels, while he didn't land a single 3axel and had other jump issues. So the judges definitely liked him. He was already getting mid 6s in PCS.
     
  30. zebobes

    zebobes Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    540
    Okay, I just looked it up. Yan Han fully rotated a quad toe in both of this competitions on the JGP this year. In Milan it was a little shaky, but in Austria, it was beautiful, with +2 and +3 all across the board from the judges. I think he's pretty set for senior competitions next season.