China - The new force in singles?

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Hedwig, Oct 5, 2011.

  1. Hedwig

    Hedwig New Member

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    We had Chinese pair power for quite a while now but most of their single skaters (with notable exceptions) were not among the absolute favourites up to now.

    I wonder if that is about to change with a mind-blowing force.

    First in ladies there is Zijun Li, arguably the best thing to come out of China since Lu Chen:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uTkzMdvNuU
    Wonderful skater, beautiful positions and not as headcasey as she could be ;)

    Then the Men:
    He Zhang
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RojXBlzQKHI
    at only 14 he is as expressive and dynamic as some of the best skaters only at the end of their respective careers

    Han Yan
    Only slightly older and IMO even more musical than He Zhang but in a more classical sense
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF-EYwt6N5Q&feature=channel_video_title

    and Jiaxing Liu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RceDahcw70
    who is not as successful as the other two yet but also very talented and maybe a bit of a wild tomboy in his skating

    I am really very impressed with the new Chinese generation!! :respec:
    I only wish they would have come slightly sooner so that Chengjiang Li could have rested his poor hips a couple of years sooner.
  2. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely! I adore her and am looking forward to seeing her improve. :)

    Bingwa Geng is quite lovely, as well.

    :lol:
  3. poths

    poths Well-Known Member

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    Holy shit, Cheers Hedwig. The Chinese girl is :kickass: SUPER jumps. Shame about the edge on the lutz, but the rotation is epic. I think she reminds me of Lipinski, but with elevation :eek:
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2011
  4. poths

    poths Well-Known Member

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  5. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

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    He Zhang is amazing, especially for his age, and I think he will be able to improve in both his technical and artistic ability over the next few season.

    I'm not as sold on Li, great jumps, but I don't feel like she is connecting any emotion with the choreography or music yet, which would make a huge improvement in her skating. (Wasn't she one of the skaters who briefly worked in Artesia a few years ago with Chen Lu's former coach?)

    And outside of singles, I have been impressed with the Chinese dance teams major improvements in the last few seasons.

    I guess the question will be, can these young great talents stay healthy and focused enough to break through when they reach the senior ranks?
  6. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

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    There is also Boyang Jin (13). I was really impressed by him at the Asian Trophy. Musical, expressive and has big jumps including a triple Axel. Too bad that he wasn't selected for the JGP this season (although is is age-eligible according to himself).
  7. periperi

    periperi New Member

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    I'm not completely sold on Li either, but it'll be exciting to see how she improves. The speed of her rotations are quite something.

    I'm more impressed with the Chinese men. All three of them have great basics to build on, and Han Yan and Jiaxing Liu have fantastic elevation to their jumps. He Zhang probably has the most mature look on the ice out of the three, but I'm a little worried about that hammer toe he's got going into his flip and lutz. Overall, I think Yan and Liu are stronger technically.
  8. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I adore Zijun Li. I saw her for the first time on the JGP last year and she's definitely improved since then. She has more speed, bigger jumps and she's relating to the music more. Her SP from last week was wonderful!

    I do think she makes a connection with the music; a lot more than some of the other girls who are winning on the JGP this season. There's a good balance to her skating that's refreshing to see in a junior: solid jumps, wonderful spins, great flow, good speed...I really like her! She rotates so fast! I also love the use of her arms throughout her programs. I'm excited to see how she develops in the next two years.

    And yes, she trains with Mingzhu Li who left Artesia last year to work with the Chinese ladies' team.

    Bingwa Geng is another lovely skater. I honestly did a double take last year at one competition; I didn't get a look at her face and for a second there I thought she was Caroline Zhang (2009 Caroline, not last year's Caroline). Her style even reminds me of Caroline--lovely and graceful--but with much better basics.
  9. sequinsgalore

    sequinsgalore Member

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    The interpretive programs of Zijun Li, Han Yan, He Zhang and Boyang Jin from "Chinese Nationals" two weeks ago. It is indeed weird that Jin didn't get a JGP when he has the 3A and 3-3 combo.

    I would love it, if these talented youngster made a splash as seniors as well. China could place well at the Team Event at the Olympics.
  10. luenatic

    luenatic Well-Known Member

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    I have never seen any of them before this thread. After watching the Youtube clips from the original thread, I have high hope for Han Yan. He is the one to watch. His edge control is probably better than most of the senior men. If he keeps working on his edges, he'll give Jeremy and Patrick a run for the money.

    I'm worried about He Zhang's landing technique. Jiaxing Liu needs to work on basic skills and edges.
  11. luenatic

    luenatic Well-Known Member

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    I just watched Jin's video for the first time here. (so many first time for me today! :rofl:

    He needs to fix the sit spin. A very good example is the last sit change sit. After he changed foot into the 'mushroom' position, he never got down enough into the 'basic sit position'. GOE wise, he'll get -. Level wise, it'll be level 1.

    He also needs to work on basic skill. The MJ music was quite loud. If I can hear toe scratch from a home video with MJ blasting in the background, you know he has room to improve.
  12. miki88

    miki88 New Member

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    Zijun impressed me so much last season. This year, not so much. Maybe it's her programs I'm not liking but I don't find her skating as fluid as it was before.
  13. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    I'm indeed excited about the new generation of Chinese skaters! Surprisingly, unlike their predecessors, they all have great skating skills and expression! They all have some wonderful strengths and also some flaws that they each needs to fix. The junior men are the most exciting of the bunch IMO. Of course, Han Yan is at the fore front with his newly acquired 4T and 3A this season, and already wonderful skating skills. I just love watching him fly across the ice with such ferocity and HUGE!!! jumps. And I think as he matures and gets better choreography he'll be a great interpreter of classical music.

    But I'm aboslutely in love with little He Zhang, who always showed incredible musicality and showmanship since he was a itty bitty 11 yr old and is now starting to blossom on the international scene. Of course, his jumps are still inconsistent and some technique questionable, and he needs to fix that. I love his LP this season - such maturity and subtlety and great use of edges in that program. I think he's going to be something once he fixes his jumps - fingers crossed for that!
    12-yr-old He Zhang http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNSrtTRBRJI
    LP to anime Naruto from a few years ago http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftiOTGhOVPM
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  14. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Well she looks as if she's shot up recently, in the pictures from Austria, you can see she towers over Vanessa Lam, and in podium shots from Latvia, she wasn't that much smaller than Polina Shelepen, who appears to be quite tall. So I think this probably explains most of why she seems a little less fluid this season, because I have noticed that too, and I think it's mostly that her body and skating are both a bit coltish and all limbs right now. That will likely change in a year or two and we will see her once again be very fluid and lyrical.

    That being said, I really like her and think she is a great talent! A nice blend of technique and artistry, she reminds me a lot of Mao Asada in her junior days (although obviously not quite as impressive technically as Mao at the same age). I really hope she makes the JGPF!
  15. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Zijun Li is a bit juniorish but a good jumper. I remember Bingwa Geng from last season--she really is quite lovely even though she needs to point her toes.

    Have yet to look at the men's videos.

    ETA: Love the men! All three have great potential although Liu needs to work on his spins. Yan is great, interruption non-withstanding, so expressive. All three are expressive! :kickass:
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  16. olifaunt

    olifaunt New Member

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    I looooove Han Yan. I'm rooting for him to win his next JGP.
  17. miki88

    miki88 New Member

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    Yea, I think maybe it's the growth spurt. Also, I'm not too fond of her programs this year. Hopefully she'll be like her predecessor Chen Lu, who just got better with age. :)
  18. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    How very exciting! I expect to see them in Sochi and do well too! :)
  19. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    i agree in everything what is said about zijun li; i saw her first at last years´junior grand prix and was excited.

    but we have to be honest, there were any ladies between lu chen and zijun li, at least one.
    yan liu enlightend the ladies field in torino and had a great future to come; unfortunately she was not able to do any step further and had those ups and downs, but i always crossed my fingers for her, beautiful skater.
  20. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    Han Yan just scored 147.30 points in the free skate at the JGP Italy! :eek: :cheer:
  21. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Do you think we'll see Yan Han in the world championship? In other words, would the Chinese fed send him?

    I think the fed may want Yan Han to "wait his turn", but we may see him in 4cc. :cheer:
  22. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    If they are smart, they will send him. The scores Nan Song put up all last season pale in comparison, so unless he's improved drastically, the Chinese fed would be stupid to not send Yan Han.
  23. sharonz

    sharonz New Member

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    I doubt we will see Yan in 4cc, there are competitions in a row for him.
    JGPF -> Chinese National Games(4th,Jan) -> YOG (middle of Jan) -> JW
    It will be too tired for him to compete for 4cc, especially he may want to save all his energy for JW.

    As for worlds, after watching the protocal of Chinese Nationals which held just two weeks ago, I believe Song is the one they want to send. That Song and Wu's PCS having been much higher than Yan's at NC is really ridiculous :(
    But IMO, if Yan keeps delivering big score at JGPF and JW, while Song do not show his strength at GPs (I don't want to see that happen though), Yan will have his chance hopefully.
  24. mapleleaf

    mapleleaf Banned Member

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    Nan Song has a better 3a than Yan and maybe have a 4t this season, but that's it. He is very very slow and his basic skating skills are poor. The spins are also bad. He's going nowhere on world stage.
  25. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I agree which is why they should send Yan! Song was able to do well on the junior ranks but has been rather disappointing since becoming senior. In addition to the weaknesses you mentioned, he also seems to have stamina issues, tending to look visibly tired and make jump mistakes at the end of his free programs. And his international PCS are just low, really low for someone who seemed to have so much potential a couple years ago.
  26. Roxanne

    Roxanne New Member

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    Is Han Yan old enough to go to Worlds?
  27. Hedwig

    Hedwig New Member

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    Yes, he is old enough.

    If he continues to skate like this, the Chinese fed would be stupid not to send him!

    Why is China suddenly on the rise in singles? In ladies it can be explained with Lu Chen's former coach being back in China. But in men? Who is the wonder-coach here to suddenly produce so many good guys after hardly anyone for the last 15 years?
  28. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting the clip of Zijun Li. She is lovely and I thoroughly enjoyed watching her. I was smiling all the way. Really feels the music (I love the Addams Family soundtrack) and great variation on high and low positions throughout the program. And beautiful open arms that draw you into her performance.
  29. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    It'll be interesting to see how the Chinese federation will select the qualifier for the 1 senior Worlds spot in both mens and ladies singles.

    They've used a mix of 4CC, Asian Winter Games, World University Games, National Championships to determine who qualifies, but it's been different year.

    Example: 2010 - Nan Song finishes 6th at 4CC but Jinlin Guan (who placed 9th at 4CC) gets sent to Worlds
    2011 - Nan Song does get to Worlds largely due a 3rd at Asian Winter Games and 2nd at Chinese Nationals, but was the 3rd Chinese finisher at 4CC.
  30. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I don't think there's a specific 'cause. YuNa happened despite a non-existent elite skating program in Korea. Considering how big China is, it's a matter of time Chinese find talents and nurture them. Figure skating is exactly the type of sport Chinese should do well anyway--it's skill-oriented and favors the less bulky
  31. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I can't believe that Boyang Jin wasn't selected for JGP after how well he has skated at the Asian Trophy.

    He's the one to look out for, for sure.

    China is going to have a lot of success in the singles in the upcoming years, definitely.

    Notice how the younger generation can not only jump, but they have MUCH better basics too. I am very impressed by Han Yan's skating skills, for example.

    Ice Dance is the only discipline left to be cracked. Having to skate to European rhythms/dances works against them there, though.
  32. luCN

    luCN New Member

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    Glad to see more chinese skaters have good performaces on the competitions,then we have more chance to see figure skating events on TV.Now,even for the COC,sometimes we only see the pair and women competition,others only on online TV.

    Han Yan improve a lot through the years.his idol is Chan,and he's similar to him on skating skills,and...at the same time have the bad side——his 3A is unconsistent- -hope he can improve it in the future...Zijun Li is still too young,I can't hope much from her now.Yuna is her idol.He Zhang's spin is pretty good,his idol is Daisuka and Chan.

    yeah,I'm glad they choose this way-training on besic skating skills first,and improve the jumps step by step.not like before,all the attention paid on quads.pay more attention to the aritisty side,and have better programs,better costume,better performance...
    I always think Ice Dance need the best skating skills,so it's more difficult for a team which don't have much experience.I think they need more times than the singles to improve...
  33. Hedwig

    Hedwig New Member

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    But see, that is just it - I can understand one special skater to come out of country that didn't have none (like Korea) or not many before by a mixture of circumstances like in Yu-Na's case a pushing mother etc.

    But for sooo many to come out at the same time I do wonder if they somehow changed the system or if a Chinese Viktoria Volchkova suddenly started being a coach or something.
  34. rouge

    rouge New Member

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    The girls are training with Mingzhu Li, Lu Chen's former coach. I've also noticed Chengjiang Li was in K&C with the chinese girls in several competitions, so I guess he's in the training group, too.

    The boys are training with different coaches. Han Yan and He Zhang are from different provinces. They all love Patrick Chan's skating? That sounds great. It seems that the young skaters do understand what really matters in figure skating. The coaches of young skaters have emphasized more on choreography, too. Do someone know something about Zhang Wei? I really appreaciate his work with S/H and Han Yan.

    The sport system in China hasn't changed so much. Hopefully the feds (national and local) would be patient and supportive this time.
  35. Eris

    Eris New Member

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    What does it mean?:shuffle:
  36. Hedwig

    Hedwig New Member

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    The show program.

    Interesting that they all train with different coaches (the men). Thanks for the info, rouge.
    I had wondered if there had been a common denominator like either a common coach or some training camps or a system change or whatever but even better if there are several centres to "produce" such talented skaters.
    If you think about it - it is the same in Russia really. Almost never having been strong in ladies they had a short golden period but then regressed again (Nina Petushkova anyone? :yikes: )and now suddenly they have about 15-20 youngsters that make you forget to swallow. And it isn't just one coach but several. Okay, there is Volchkova who has really made in impact but she isn't by far the only one.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2011
  37. luCN

    luCN New Member

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    I love Wei Zhang's choreography too.He's a former ice-dancer,he didn't attend much international competitions,but won the Asian Winter Games on 1999 with Rui Wang.he always add something from ice-dance to the programs,so his choreography always feel unique from other pair or single skaters.:p
  38. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Well, so far it IS one specific skater who came out of the blue--Yan Han.

    The ladies program got Li Ming Zhu and Li Chengjiang and they're coming along nicely. The boys are doing nicely but other than Yan Han no one is dominating the JGP. The Chinese program is doing fairly well but it's expected given the number of years they have to get this going. But it's not as if the Chinese kids are dominating the JGP the way the Russian wondergirls are. JMHO, of course
  39. bek

    bek Guest

    It may take time. Honestly have to say though its hard for me to root for the Chinese to do well with the age cheating issues. For awhile in gymnastics I was like well they are good and liked them but I just can't stomach it anymore. But it just became impossible to be that way when you have to see talented kids left behind from some countries, while the Chinese get away with it. And this is in gymnastics, to see this happen in skating...

    Now we all have to watch Adelina, Elizaveta, etc all wait their turns and I just don't know if I can stomach watching the Chinese flaunt the rules.
  40. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    They have an organised system with loads of state support. I think it was just a question of time before it brought results.

    Thanks, I didn't realise that!

    Great to see that China got a homegrown choreographer too! :)

    I really hope that Sui/Han keep working with him and aren't sent out to Zueva (already started to happen that). :scream:

    It's not just Yan Han, there are more.

    Nan Song got the silver medal at the JGPF in the previous season.

    And there is Boyang Jin who is absolutely amazing for a 13-year old.

    Boyang Jin - SP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzMtbotbeOk

    Boyang Jin - FS
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go1NVYJ7iqw&