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China & Japan: how serious is this conflict?

Discussion in 'Politically Incorrect' started by Coco, Sep 18, 2012.

  1. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    How worried should we be about this?


    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...islands-on-anniversary-of-japan-conflict.html

    http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_09_17/China-Japan-conflict-is-gaining-momentum/

    And on a skating note, Mao, Miki and Dai are going to Cup of China this year. I hope they have a smooth trip.
     
  2. Sylvia

    Sylvia The JGP season is here!

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  3. allezfred

    allezfred People call me rude, I wish we all were.... Staff Member

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    There were coordinated (by the Chinese government although not officially :p ) demonstrations outside Japanese embassies all over the world today on this issue. About 60 Chinese citizens stood outside the Japanese embassy here in Dublin chanting slogans, waving flags and banners. It's the anniversary of Mukden Incident today when Japan seized control of Manchuria in 1931.

    The islands weren't in dispute until the 1970s when a UN report suggested that there were potential oil and gas fields located nearby. Taiwan is actually the country that has a claim on the islands, but because China insists Taiwan is part of China.....:lol:

    Anyway, the real story is not the dispute about the islands, but what is happening in China domestically which is why these "protests" are being orchestrated. :sekret:
     
  4. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    Taiwan has only survived this long without a hostile takeover because they've learned it's best to shut up and keep quiet about it. :shuffle:
     
  5. itsartemis

    itsartemis There will only be one Daisuke!

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    Japan is pulling athletes out of competitions hosted in China these days and vice versa. There are Japanese skaters going to Cup of China in November. Hopefully this issue is resolved way before that. I'd hate to see Daisuke, Miki, Mao, Takahashi/Tran miss out of the GPF because they can't skate in China. Same for Sui/Han who are competing at NHK.
     
  6. allezfred

    allezfred People call me rude, I wish we all were.... Staff Member

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    There is no question of Chinese athletes or Chinese citizens being unwelcome in Japan. Most Japanese are very uncomfortable with nationalism due to WW2 and the most vocal rightwing groups are small in number.

    I'm sure that this will all have blown over by November as really it's more about what is going on in China domestically than anything else.
     
  7. Roskate

    Roskate New Member

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    S/H already decided to pull out of NHK weeks ago, much earlier than this turmoil started. They have to pull out because Sui has an injury. It has nothing to do with politics.
     
  8. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully the mutual economic losses they will suffer in case of a conflict will prevent any outright war.
     
  9. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    I posted photos and info about what's going on in Beijing on my website a few days ago (http://neatsjourney.blogspot.com/2012/09/no-protests-in-chinaunless-theyre-anti.html) and will update tomorrow with news from today (schools closing and interesting conversations with Chinese friends). It's a PITA traffic-wise!! (There are some errors in the post, like the policeman probably never meeting a *Japanese* person! But since my site is blocked here, I haven't gone to the effort of turning my VPN to change it.) You can also go to baidu.com to see their peaceful protest.
     
    WildRose and (deleted member) like this.
  10. equatorial

    equatorial Well-Known Member

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    It looks like Chinese economy really hit a rough patch, much rougher than anyone can imagine. With the upcoming leadership change, it makes a lot of sense to target Japan to divert attention from the crumbling economy. Not good at all, if you ask me.
     
  11. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot of these territorial disputes in Asia right now. Most but not all involves China. China also has a simmering dispute with the Philippines.
     
  12. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Historical baggage on both sides takes time and generations to heal and forget.
     
  13. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    But in this case, it's not in either Japan or China's culture to forget. In both cases, the "facts" change based on what is going on at the time, and what the information is for. Both countries have strong biased in reporting/recording historical events, and as such, much of the information given by each country to their own citizens is not accurate. It's almost impossible to find out what the facts are, as what is considered "fact" has changed over the years.

    I don't think the relationship between China and Japan will ever be a good one, healing is one thing, forgetting is another. And I think forgetting would be a terrible thing, actually.
     
  14. os168

    os168 Active Member

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    I agree, but no healing can be done without forgiveness, and no forgiveness can be done without asking for forgiveness, and no asking for forgiveness can be done if one side just want to forget, rewrite history and feign ignorance.

    The island dispute didn't came out of no where, it goes very much back to history where sh*t happen and remained unresolved. US is partially to blame as well. It is tough to play world's big brother unfortunately, but to hand over some country's historical land to its previous invaders/aggressors without them being there remains highly questionable, especially it is unconditional surrender.

    Things were simply not done properly the first time, so now the farce we are experiencing. Sadly, i don't see it end anytime soon. Both countries are too proud, and it is not just about oil contrary to western media. I can only hope for peaceful resolution, economic ties are too valuable in this case and at this time.
     
  15. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    And why is that funny? :confused:
     
  16. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    And why is that funny? :confused:

    I don't know what to think of Japan's stance on this one. This dispute over the island between Japan and Taiwan has been going on and causing protests (sometimes vioent) in Taiwan for decades, not just since the "recent" discovery of the oil fields. I'm not sure when exactly China started taking notice and getting so involved, but it's definitely nothing recent in Taiwan.
     
  17. allezfred

    allezfred People call me rude, I wish we all were.... Staff Member

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    Because Taiwan is clearly an independent country. So in addition to sabre-rattling against Japan, China is also reaffirming it's claim over Taiwan. It's diplomacy at its bluntest.

    And it's pretty hilarious that this issue is the only thing that China and Taiwan seem to agree on. :lol:
     
  18. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    It really is not that clear.
     
  19. allezfred

    allezfred People call me rude, I wish we all were.... Staff Member

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    To all intents and purposes it really is.
     
  20. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    If you ask the people actually living in Taiwan, it is pretty clear. :shuffle:
     
  21. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    It most certainly is not. Those I know are pretty split on the issue, and even those on the "independent country" side want to keep their ties with China "close and convenient".
     
  22. allezfred

    allezfred People call me rude, I wish we all were.... Staff Member

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    Nevertheless, Taiwan is a fully functioning multi-party democracy with a free press. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. ;)

    And speaking of Taiwan so we don't forget about them in all of this....

    Taiwanese ships clash with Japanese coastguard
     
  23. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    I read about this, too. Completely unsurprised.

    Why is Japan so interested now, allezfred? The conflict has been going on for years - why bring it up again now?
     
  24. allezfred

    allezfred People call me rude, I wish we all were.... Staff Member

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    The Kurihara family who owned the islands were reportedly in financial difficulty and wanted to sell the islands. Naturally there were concerns about selling them to private investors so they approached the Japanese government.

    As for asking why Japan is so interested - well that is kind of like asking why China is so interested about Hong Kong/Macau. Because Japan considers the islands to be part of Japanese territory. Namely Ishigaki, Okinawa Prefecture. The islands are uninhabited now (apart from goats :lol: ), but the last people to live there were Japanese.
     
  25. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    It is not about rocks, islands and democracy. It is about tragic history, humiliation, perceived humiliation, unresolved grievances without proper closure. Dig deep into the psyche of the Chinese and Koreans, and you will find the simmering cauldron.
     
  26. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    Are the Kurihara family Japanese? How did they come to own the islands? I'm assuming they're Japanese because of the name and the fact they didn't approach the Chinese government...

    Why are their goats on the island? How much did the Japanese government pay, do you know? Why didn't the Kurihara family get the oil...?
     
  27. allezfred

    allezfred People call me rude, I wish we all were.... Staff Member

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    Yes. They purchased the islands from another Japanese family whose descendants had a fish processing factory on the islands.

    The goats were abandoned and proceeded to breed like err rabbits.

    The Japanese Government paid around 2 billion yen.

    A UN survey published in 1969 said there were "potentially" oil and gas reserves. As yet no oil or gas has been discovered.

    The islands and the rest of Okinawa were under US administration following WW2 until 1972 when they reverted back to Japan. In the same year China and Taiwan began officially declaring that they owned the islands.
     
  28. Fan123

    Fan123 Active Member

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  29. allezfred

    allezfred People call me rude, I wish we all were.... Staff Member

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    I give it an A+ in propaganda. It really is like something from a George Orwell novel. :rofl:

    The Economist had an interesting piece on the whole issue. I thought the conclusion was bang on point.

     
  30. genegri

    genegri Active Member

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    I read this article last Friday. While it raised some good points, it's also hopelessly biased like many essays from Western sources these days.

    It compares China to pre-war Germany, not so subtly suggesting China would be a war starter - typical "China Threat" propaganda. It conveniently focuses on responsibility on the Chinese side and puts all burdens of concession on China.