Chen vs Kwan- 96 Worlds

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by kuzytalent, Jul 19, 2013.

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Who should have won 96 Worlds- Kwan or Chen

  1. Kwan

    97 vote(s)
    40.4%
  2. Chen

    141 vote(s)
    58.8%
  3. Slutskaya

    2 vote(s)
    0.8%
  1. SpeedySucks

    SpeedySucks Member

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    IMO, either Chen or Kwan could have won the title, and the result would have been fair. 1996 Worlds is my favorite ladies' competition of all-time. I would kill to have two skaters today with the complexity and choreographic nuance that both Lulu and Michelle displayed in that competition.
     
  2. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    I voted for Kwan (and I never vote for Kwan), because of the quality of her spins and spirals. And that last 3toe was gutsy. Chen's program was beautiful, but Michelle's was also a terrific program (one of my favorites from her) and had more bite, IMO.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
  3. David21

    David21 Well-Known Member

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    Chen's program was more sophisticated and skated with more maturity so I would have given her the win based on the 2nd mark.
    It wasn't a highway robbery though since Kwan had the better spins and one more triple (even though that one triple toe vs. Chen's double axel should not have made the difference).
     
  4. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    The second mark was not an artistic mark, but a presentation mark. And in term of presentation, I think Michelle Kwan's performance was also amazing. She really delivered a strong performance, with a complex choreo and a good expression. That's why it's normal absurd that Michelle won even on the second mark.
    Of course, Lu Chen's artistry, especially in that program and performance, was really touching, elegant, graceful. :swoon:
     
  5. N_Halifax

    N_Halifax Active Member

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    ITA re: the bronze medal.
     
  6. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I also think that at the time, Kwan's Salome was something really different and not really seen before. Yes, we had "exotic" themed programs in the past, but Kwan's routine was almost cutting-edge in a way. I don't think there was a program like it before from the ladies. Lori Nichol's choreography and type of movement was still new and there was something that seemed deep and almost soulful with the actual movement and blade work. Also, Kwan's "transformation" really was a marketing success story.

    As beautiful and close to perfection Lu Chen's choreography and interpretation was, we had seen lyrical pieces like that before. I go back and forth between Kwan and Chen, but I think Kwan's freshness really sold that routine on the presentation mark.
     
  7. Zokko!

    Zokko! Comansnala?

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    ... of course kwawn'll win this poll, as usual :blah: :blah: :blah: , not because it has anything to do with reality, more only because the majority of posters here are kwawn's ardent countrymen, still a great result for LuLu ... :respec: :cheer2: ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
  8. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

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    Lu Chen's Rach at the 96 Worlds was a beautiful masterpiece and it was the best performance of her career. That said, Kwan's Salome at those championships was one of those once in a lifetime performances and in my opinion is still one of the iconic programs of figure skating.
     
  9. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Well, the reality is that Kwan won Worlds. So if someone is not acknowledging reality...
     
  10. RickInSanJose

    RickInSanJose Active Member

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    "KWAN'S ARDENT COUNTRYMEN." I like the sound of that. I think I'll have a T-shirt made with that slogan. That or a button like those "Thank You Michelle" buttons.
     
  11. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    Chen has too many wuzrobbed threads on these boards. She is still a beautiful skater but the way some on this forum talk about her you would think she was a god or something.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
  12. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    I am very happy to see so many of you bother to mention that Maria definitely deserved the bronze at the 96 Worlds, and that she also was robbed of winning Nations Cup that year over Michelle Kwan. I was surprised to see that, and also how Maria was easily my polls for winning the 2000 Worlds had she done a clean LP and for who should have won the bronze at the 98 Olympics. I had the impression the first couple of months people on this forum mostly all hated Maria, but maybe that was just from a few nasty posters who were using her as someone to ridicule to indirectly put down the Kwan era of skating and not representative of how most fans feel about her. Some of the comments about Maria on the who had the weakest competition thread were so bad and mean and made me so upset.
     
  13. duane

    duane New Member

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    And what's different about how you talk about Maria?
     
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  14. escaflowne9282

    escaflowne9282 Well-Known Member

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    I actually feel the opposite... lol. I think that it's Chen's 1996 World's performance and program that is easily one of the most iconic ladies programs ever. To me, Chen really was the one who was having a one with the universe moment. It's one of the programs that Sandra Bezic is most famous for, and Chen ,along with M&D in 1994, are the first names that come to mind when thinking of Rachmaninoff's 2nd. Kwan skated wonderfully and had an incredible program with terrific music, steps, choreography, and she built on the tension and pressure that program, music, and event created ;however, I don't think she really had that same level of interpretation yet.

    This event was really incredible to behold. For me, it's Chen, but I have no issues whatsoever with the actual result.
     
  15. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    I dont think she is a god. Yes she is my favorite all time skater and I am a huge fan, and I admit I am biased, but I still think I am reasonable.

    I think she was robbed of a medal at many events- 96 Worlds, 97 Worlds, 98 Olympics, but I didnt argue she deserved to win any of those events. I think she could have won the 2000 Worlds had she not choked, but that doesnt mean I think she is a god either. On my polls for who deserved the bronze at the 1998 Olympics and who wins the 2000 Worlds had all skated cleanly Maria was the overwhelming winner of both, and that despite that she is the most hated skater on this forum.

    Even in this thread despite the extreme hating of her on this forum people are admitting she was robbed of the bronze, and probably of beating MK at Nations Cup earlier that year. So my defenses of her are never out of touch with reality, the way Chen fans think she is a god who seem to think she deserved 6 or 7 World titles (just look at the poll on another thread saying she deserved 93 Worlds, 92 Worlds, 94 Olympics, 94 Worlds which she didnt even skate, blah blah), and still was a 6.0 artistic skater even in 98 past her prime.
     
  16. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Most hated skater on this forum? Have you not seen threads with Sarah Hughes or Rachel Flatt or Patrick Chan?

    That's a really interesting victim complex you have.
     
  17. gk_891

    gk_891 Active Member

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    i haven't seen either program in years but at the time, I definitely thought Chen. Kwan looked like a little girl playing dress-up.
     
  18. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    I had to go with Kwan because, if I were a judge, I would have thought it would have been bad for the sport for Kwan to do the most athletic content for two years in a row but not win, despite Chen having the more mature presentation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
  19. duane

    duane New Member

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    Chen Lu fans are reasonable as well. Your comments about us are WAY over-the-top, just like your ridiculous claim that Maria is hated on this forum. Other than her inconsistency, Maria'a skating is mostly praised.
     
  20. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

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    For me, this competition was one of the all-time greats in ladies' WC figure skating. I would have been absolutely fine with either winning, but the most emotional reaction I had was to Michelle Kwan's program. I don't know why. I don't know that I'll ever figure that out. But it evoked something deep in me. Lulu's program was breathtaking and serene, but I did not feel the same emotional response. I'm sure this is subjective and that others felt more connected to Lulu's skate, and that's one of the things that made the competition so mind-blowing.

    Kwan's overall technical content was better than Lulu's.

    But, as I said, either could have won and I would have been thrilled. I was and still am a huge fan of Lulu. Loved her delayed rotation in some of her jumps and her regal presentation. So beautiful.

    O-
     
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  21. shady82

    shady82 Active Member

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    I thought Michelle's performance of Salome was amazing and complete, but Lulu was on her own level artistically at the competition. Perhaps this is a stretch, but I analogize the Kwan vs. Chen comparison as similar to Kwan '98 Nationals vs. Kim '10 Olympics FPs. Kwan did have the momentum that year and snuck in the 3toe at the end, so the judges were compelled to award her at Worlds. I was very happy with the result, but would also be happy with Chen winning. If Kwan didn't sneak in that extra 3toe, I think the title would and should go to Chen - she got 6.0s even before Kwan skated.
     
  22. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Actually if Kwan had not done a 3toe at the very end, she would have closed with a 2axel instead (like she did all season long), which would make her jump count 6 triples and 2 2axels, same as Chen.

    I never felt 6 triples and 2 2axels and 7 triples and 1 2axel are all that different in technical merit, especially since Kwan's lutzes weren't as good. To me it really was the spins that set them apart.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2013
  23. DarrellH

    DarrellH New Member

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    Kwan.

    The results seemed to have broken Chen. She did not have the fire that next year.
     
  24. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    I went back to look at the videos and can't believe Michelle lost the US judge to Lulu in the short program on the technical mark.
     
  25. Lnt175

    Lnt175 Member

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    I always thought the SP's were close that year too. Kwans SP was a masterpeice, but Chen's was as well. Her Spring Breeze was beautifully choregraphed, and her jumps were of better quality.

    Almost all the women were doing the single triple toe (or the loop in Butes case- I always thoughy her SP that year was one of her best).
     
  26. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    I would have mark

    Chen: 5.8/6.0
    Kwan: 5.9/5.9

    Chen first
     
  27. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I was actually surprised Kwan won that one so easily. For me the short was almost as close as the long. Perhaps skate order mattered?

    If I were a judge I would have given 6.0s in the second mark to Kwan and Chen on both their shorts and frees. Seriously. Spring Breeze was way underrated.
     
  28. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    Was it Joe Inman?:mad:
     
  29. bluesboom

    bluesboom New Member

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    Saying Kwan deserved to win by spins is a ridiculous argument since Kwan is no more than an average spinner herself. It is like the argument people had that Slutskaya deserved her controversial win over Sokolova at the 2003 Europeans since she was more artistic of the two. Well who is more artistic between two truck drivers is meaningless, and a same argument is true of Kwan vs Chen in spins.
     
  30. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Kwan was an average spinner, but Chen's spins were a burden to her. It's true and very much undisputed that between the two of them, Kwan was the better spinner and got more credit on her spins. It ended up making the difference in a close race.

    The same logic applies to Slute vs Sokolova at 2003 Europeans. The less sloppy of the two sloppy skaters won.
     
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