Changes to Base Values, Under-rotations, and Levels - ISU Comm. 1611

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by HisWeirness, May 6, 2010.

  1. bek

    bek Guest

    But people can still get GOE points just not as much as before. And I think its a good thing because it was just way to easy for the judges to pad their favorites scores. Not to mention the double axel GOE really needed to be lowered. Everyone at that level should be able to do a high quality double axel. And it was ridiculous that a high quality double axel with +2 would be getting half of its value back, whereas a high quality triple axel with +2 would be getting no where near half its value back.

    I think its a really good thing that they are starting to recognize that a high quality quad or triple axel should be worth more GOE points than an easier triple/double axel.

    My only issue is I don't like the idea of falls and stuff being penalized less to be quite frank. IF they are going to have those rules ,they need to start arguing that messy programs need to be punished more in PCS.

    Also while I support the idea of Mao being allowed to do her triple axel in the short. However, I will say that I really don't think 1.1 bonus is enough of a reward for combinations. And I also think that 3/3s should be able to get the same kind of GOE that a triple axel or a quad can get-at least for women.

    Plus, a lot of women are struggling with the 3lutz, so if they are going to raise the triple axel-again maybe the 3lutz should be raised a bit more.
     
  2. FSUSF

    FSUSF New Member

    60
    4
    0
    Congrats to the Japanese skater! :respec:
     
  3. RunnersHigh

    RunnersHigh Well-Known Member

    2,980
    358
    83
    Hmm.. It may be benefit for a lot of skaters but, I think the most beneficiary of the rule is Mao, 5-time-3A-DGed in ISU International competitions during 2009-2010.
     
  4. miki88

    miki88 New Member

    806
    46
    0
    Actually, if Mao's 3A gets the underrotation, she will be rewarded GOE according to the jump that it was intended. This means she will be hit with greater negative GOE than she is getting now, because now the GOE for a downgraded 3A goes by a 2A standard. The end result will give her little more than a point than she is getting now. She will be getting some benefit but not so much more than now. Also, don't you think a rule that benefits many even if you think it benefits one the most is a good one? Majority rules in most cases. :D
     
  5. bek

    bek Guest

    I actually think a lot of these rules are quite fair. The triple axel should be worth more and if a lady can take advantage of having a 3/3 in the short, another lady should be able to take advantage of having a 3axel. (only fair)

    However, I do think that a lady with a 3lutz/3toe should be able to get high level GOE on that theoritically. That's an incredibly difficult combination for women and I'd like to see 3/3s treated a bit higher on GOE than just regular triples.

    However, I think a lot of these rules aren't really about Mao. I think they were concerned about the downgrades and it was clear the callers at the Olympics was going easy on most besides Flatt. I also think it was clear the double axel thing was getting very much abused. Even with the men you had someone like Lambiel who could theoratically make up a lot of points on GOE doing a double axel in the short, instead of a triple axel.

    A lot of these rules changes truly needed to happen.
     
  6. RunnersHigh

    RunnersHigh Well-Known Member

    2,980
    358
    83
    Do you guys remember the poll "When will Yuna Kim's record score(228.56) be broken"?

    Now, no one has chance to close the record.. :cold:
     
  7. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

    18,139
    2,171
    113
    I love it. I find out about these things sooner on FSU than from my own skating organisations.

    I hope they have updated the IJS software.

    ETA - no they have not updated the software yet.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2010
  8. RunnersHigh

    RunnersHigh Well-Known Member

    2,980
    358
    83
    Don't get me wrong.
    I don't have any objection to the rule changes. (And I don't give any shit on it.) I just said my opinion on whom the most beneficiary is, IMO.

    And one more! Rule change is one thing and fair or unfair is another in Figure Skating. Isn't it?
     
  9. Spazactaz

    Spazactaz New Member

    1,812
    209
    0
    Wow, it's going to be harder to get level 4 for all spins now. COE only counted once, as well as DV?? In addition to the bwd entry still.
     
  10. sequinsgalore

    sequinsgalore Member

    74
    11
    8
    Yay! They deleted "difficult variation of lady's position" as a feature for death spirals, and clarified that both man and lady must be in low position for level features! No more ugly catch-foot spirals.

    Again, does anyone know what a Pivot Figure is? The base value is lower than a level1 death spiral, so it must be easy, right?

    ________________________________________________________
    Read my danish figure skating blog www.sequinsgalore.blogspot.com
     
  11. bek

    bek Guest


    Oh Amen.
     
  12. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

    3,301
    472
    83
    The new jump base values seem so odd to me. Why did the values of 1A and all the double jumps go up when they're considered easier, yet the values of some of the triple jumps, like flip and Salchow, and the 2A went down when they're considered more difficult? Makes no sense!
     
  13. RunnersHigh

    RunnersHigh Well-Known Member

    2,980
    358
    83
    And good for skaters. Hallelujah!
     
  14. bek

    bek Guest

    After Lepisto's bronze, I can imagine there will be many who won't be happy with this.
     
  15. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

    10,806
    2,396
    113
    The boy does a pivot holding the hand of the girl doing a spiral around him, so it's an easier position for the girl than a death spiral and requires less strength from the boy. It's often used in juvenile and lower pair competitions in the US.

    That the ISU is adding it to their scale of values suggests that they may expect to see it in international competition, perhaps from new pair teams at the junior or novice levels who haven't mastered death spirals yet. Or just that they want to give guidelines to the federations on how to score that move at lower levels.
     
  16. Kwantumleap

    Kwantumleap Well-Known Member

    3,949
    349
    83
    Would Evan have won the Olympics or even been top 2 with this system?
     
  17. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    20,569
    1,599
    113
    Great let's give even more value to cheated jumps just because people whine about it without backing it up with anything.

    Meh. :(
     
  18. pearlsister

    pearlsister New Member

    17
    2
    0
    this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard since I watch this sports.

    Anyway, what's the point of this rule changing?
    Is there a particular skater who can't skate without changing the whole system of figure skating?

    Just absurd..omg
    People who submitted about this change should do their own competition.

    I mean, this is a huge joke.
    If this is really happening, do the football players get a half point when they shoot the ball right at the goal post?

    Uhh
    If This is really going to happen, I don't want to see any of figure skating competition, ever.

    hope I could see the pro competition revive by Scott and other skaters.
    That would be so much fun and worth to look.
    :(
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2010
    RunnersHigh and (deleted member) like this.
  19. purple skates

    purple skates Shadow dancing

    16,850
    4,729
    113
    I can't address your point about the 3's as compared to the 2's, but I am absolutely thrilled with the changes for the 1A and 2's as compared to the singles, as well as the spin and spiral changes. IJS doesn't just apply to the senior elites and the system as it was set up for the elites was actually skewing things at the lower levels, if looking at the US Adult Nationals were any indication. Skaters were jumping below test levels, relying on flexibility or repetition in spins and spirals to carry them to high placements and it worked. That inequity is now gone.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2010
    flyingsit and (deleted member) like this.
  20. eyh201

    eyh201 New Member

    340
    50
    0
    Finally the rules are changed the way the Japanese media reported. :eek:
     
  21. pearlsister

    pearlsister New Member

    17
    2
    0
    Oh! Maybe I should think about competing.
    I could get points if I do the under-rotated jumps!

    Yeah! It is quite a news for many people who doesn't do the full rotated jumps, isn't it?
    What a mess...:(
     
  22. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    20,569
    1,599
    113
    :p

    Well sadly it's not a rule but a reminder that the judges will just ignore. :p

    Could judges also be reminded that PCS scores have actual guidelines? :rolleyes:

    Would be nice. :p

    I like the spin changes.

    At first I was against not calling second steps and spirals but after thinking it through, it's a very good move.

    Skaters will now enable to perform more interesting and spectacular sequences without having to worry about the features.
     
  23. eyh201

    eyh201 New Member

    340
    50
    0
    Is there any explanation about the changes of the base value in the ISU communication?
     
  24. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Happy Russian Hunger Games!

    11,641
    1,501
    113
    No explanation is given, but I know some felt previously that a 3S was not 0.5 points harder than a 3T, so now the difference between them is less. I can understand why the loop got a boost but I am not so sure why the flip was decreased in value. It seems like they started with a 3Lz being worth 6 points and adjusted downwards from that point until they got to 3T.
     
  25. eyh201

    eyh201 New Member

    340
    50
    0
    Well, I think additional points should be given to the skaters who correctly jump both of the 3Lz & 3F.

    In fact, there are a handful of skaters who correctly jump both of them. It means it's very hard to get both techniques. But unfortunately such a reality is not reflected in the rules.

    I think the variety of the jumping techniques should be more favored in the new rule.
     
  26. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    20,569
    1,599
    113
    They already do. It's called "no deductions." ;P
     
  27. purple skates

    purple skates Shadow dancing

    16,850
    4,729
    113
    I think bonus points should go to skaters who can do all the types of jumps in one program.
     
  28. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    20,569
    1,599
    113
    Yeah I think it would be a good idea.

    Limiting the number of 2axels to two and enabling skaters to perform half-loop combinations is going to help with this a bit.
     
  29. eyh201

    eyh201 New Member

    340
    50
    0
    ITA.

    Maybe the variety of 3-3 jumps could be decreased if skaters opt for half-loop combinations in the next season.
     
  30. Harryharry

    Harryharry New Member

    18
    1
    0
    OMG it's ridiculous..:lol: hahaha

    I'm a big fan of Mao but it's soooooo obvious that it's A RULE FOR HER.

    3S: 4.2, <I>4.5</I> (-0.3) :rofl:

    3Lo: 5.1, <I>5.0</I> (+0.1):rofl:

    3F: 5.3, <I>5.5</I> (-0.2):rofl:

    3Lz: 6.0, <I>6.0</I> (no change):rofl:-no change?? I don't get it..

    3A: 8.5, <I>8.2</I> (+0.3)- up AGAIN??? :rofl:
    and etc etc etc

    Well I think it's not good for the u.s ladies apparently..like Mirai nagasu.
    She had a slight chance of winning but now...I don't think she can bit mao :wall:
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2010