Chan trapped between two worlds

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Dec 8, 2011.

  1. Sugar

    Sugar Well-Known Member

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    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/07122011/2/figure-skating-chan-trapped-worlds.html
    "Several years ago I felt more Canadian but I'm slowly feeling more Chinese and feel I should be more proud of being Chinese and appreciate where I've come from. (This is because) of the support I get from the Chinese community in Canada," Chan, who is fluent in English, French and Cantonese, said as he took a break from his intensive training schedule.

    "I do (wish I could have represented both China and Canada when I compete). That would be the ideal situation... in a perfect world."
     
  2. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like he wants more fame. He goes on to say:
    So all he cares about is making himself happy, but he wants lots of fame and adulation for doing that.

    I find Chan so much easier to like when he keeps his mouth shut
     
  3. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure you don't like Chan at all.
     
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  4. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    He used to be my favorite male skater. But then he started talking, and it's been a challenge ever since.
     
  5. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    Even though he's not saying anything in those comments you posted that any reasonable person would find negative in the way you do.

    You can't blame Chan for your unreasonableness.
     
  6. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    It must be easy for Chan to skate without worrying about his results with the way he gets judged.
     
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  7. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    Wanting fame may not be considered a negative, depending on your values. Hard to read that quote as him not desiring that though.
     
  8. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    This kid just can't stop saying dumb shit.

    I just wish Canada loved skating!
     
  9. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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  10. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    The comment that strikes me as sad is,

    Chan: "I barely have any interest any more in how well I do in competitions."

    Well, why should he??? This is why I happen to think the judges are absolutely doing him no favors by continuing to score him high marks when he makes many mistakes in his programs. How can you have any frame of reference for improving when you pretty much realize that no matter if you skate clean or wobble on footwork and fall on 2 or 3 jumps, you still have the competition in the bag.

    I don't think Chan needs to keep his mouth shut. He has every right to speak his mind. I think it was his relative immaturity which got him into trouble in interviews on a few occasions, but he's not a bad person -- we all have egos, and he is very competitive, as he should be. It is just too bad that the judges decided he should be the poster boy for the sport and can do no wrong on the ice. And some of the hype re Chan north of the border is just a little bit over the top -- albeit understandable since Canadians love figure skating and are overjoyed to have such a talented skater like Chan representing them.

    It is just setting Chan so far above his competitors no matter how he performs which has IMHO wounded him and the sport. That's how I feel, whether or not my feelings are characterized as "hate" or whatever. Chan ubers can continue the love fest all the way to Sochi and beyond. Enjoy.

    OTOH, I don't think there's anything wrong with Chan saying that he wants to "skate to satisfy his desire." Lots of skaters, athletes and performers probably feel the same way. Also, the underlined passage "... satisfy myself and make myself enjoy what I do on the ice," is IMO a completely normal way to feel. Nothing to bash him about there.

    I thought the thread title, "trapped..." meant Chan is caught between the judges, the skating world, and a hard place resembling the plot of the movie Groundhog Day, in which the deadpan actor/comedian, Bill Murray, finds himself living the same day, over and over again (i.e., not progressing, not getting anywhere).
     
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  11. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    From the above link:
     
  12. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Chan: "I'm extremely well recognised in Korea just because of what I do on the ice and there is a lack of that in Canada."


    Well now, that does seem to be a pretty dumb statement by Chan, especially in view of how well loved he is in Canada, or is it just the Canadian media who love him, and not fans :confused:. Does he want people to come up to him on the street and clamor for his autograph wherever he goes in Canada???

    In any case, Chan lives and trains in the U.S. now anyway. I think the judges scores have gone to his head in a bad way -- not in terms of ego, but in terms of making him more confused than he already is as a young adult growing up and trying to find his identity on and off the ice. Good luck, Patrick. :slinkaway
     
  13. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

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    Relative to most countries, Canada does love skating, but the level of enthusiasm is never going to be like that of the Korean crowds at Yu-na's All That Skate shows.That phenomenon is driven completely by Yu-na's star status.

    Patrick does say some things that could be criticized, but OTOH there seems to be a double standard at work. Other skaters are applauded for their "honesty". ;)
     
  14. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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  15. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Oh but flowerpower, I think any skater who happened to say that Korean crowds were more appreciative than fans in their country of origin, would indeed be criticized. Regarding other skaters' "honesty": e.g., Johnny Weir has said how much he appreciates the love he receives from fans in other countries, including Russia and Japan, but he also acknowledges the love he receives from fans in the U.S. -- it is just the U.S. fed that has been stingy in their love for Johnny. Not the same for Patrick (he is quite loved by his fed), and Patrick's "honesty" in some respects seems once again to be a bit of immaturity, or at the least raises questions about what exactly he means.

    True, there is more of a focus on Chan's comments because he has exhibited foot-in-mouth disease on other occasions. No biggy (as I said plenty of what Chan's quoted as saying in this interview is quite normal and nothing to get too excited about). He's young and perhaps reflecting on his Asian roots, etc. Still, the way he has phrased some of his comments is kind of odd, but great fodder for discussion, which will I'm sure, continue to ensue.


    ETA: In any case, why is Chan comparing himself at this stage to Elvis and Kurt, or even Brian Orser for that matter?
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2011
  16. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    The comment about China is ridiculous. It would have been so much easier for his parents in China? Really, Patrick? You'd think they'd immigrated for a reason.
     
  17. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    With that comment, I read Chan as saying: "Due to the way China's sports system works, financial hardship is not shifted to the parents. The sacrifices my parents made, such as my mother having to move with me to Florida and subsequently Colorado, would not be required there."
     
  18. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    I interpreted Chan's comment that his "parents wouldn't have had to make as much sacrifices as they have" to mean that they would have sacrificed less financially because China's elite sports programs fund their athletes (all expenses paid for the most part?). But I'm not sure if Chan is fully aware of the "down side" of being a part of the Chinese sports machine...
     
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  19. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    It's too bad Patrick has never performed in any of the Canadian shows or tours as Canada's other top eligible skaters have always done. He might be pleasantly surprised at the response he'd receive if he did.
     
  20. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't actually thinking of Johnny. But I get what you mean, aftershocks.

    I do agree that he puts his foot in his mouth. And frankly, as a Canadian, I'd say that if he doesn't like something about our country, he's welcome to move elsewhere and skate for whichever country he wishes (if he really thinks that would be better :p).

    I was just commenting on the fact that N.A. skaters are criticized for being politically correct, yet also criticized when they're not politically correct. Skaters from some other countries are applauded for being blunt.
     
  21. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Ah, Proustable, but again I think Chan needs to be clearer what he means. It seems pretty much that he says a lot of things without thinking. Lots of things would not have been required in China for his parents to "sacrifice," but you can be sure a whole lot of other things would have been required for him and his parents to "sacrifice." Chan needs to read, The Second Mark (section on Shen and Zhao), and Lucinda Ruh's Frozen Teardrop. He also needs to speak with Chen Lu and other retired former Chinese figure skaters about the "sacrifices" required of them and their parents by the Chinese federation, not to mention the Chinese government.
     
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  22. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    ^^^This. He cannot be wholly unaware of the life and sacrifices of Chinese elite athletes.
     
  23. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    What was unclear?
     
  24. taf2002

    taf2002 Texas slumlord

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    No, it's only successful NA skaters who are criticized that way. If any skater wins a lot, every word is scrutenized. And when that skater is also a NA, it's worse, they can do no right.
     
  25. Yukari Lepisto

    Yukari Lepisto Active Member

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    lol, patrick should know that those chinese athletes don't even get the chance to study or go to school. People would jump out and say oh they do study. but it's very different from the normal school system. It's more like they're taught how to do the basic reading. The athletes have no life but train.

    A lot of people think China's all great now, but that's only from the outside. There's a reason why more and more people are still emigrating out of China. Patrick needs to really know more to make these assertive comments.

    Also, Patrick might feel that Chinese people treat him really well from the shows or competitions he's done there. But he forgot people are treating him like that because he's FROM Canada.
     
  26. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    From the Globe and Mail response article:
    To be continued...
     
  27. bek

    bek Guest

    I think there are absolutely benefits to a sports system and drawbacks. But I read about the Chinese fed making Shen/Zhao a married couple live in dorms apart from each other yes, and think its just ridiculous. Even the Soviets didn't go that far. Although of course my understanding of the situation could be wrong.

    This being said in general, Patrick wouldn't be Patrick without the Canadian system. Its not like the Chinese system has tons of great coaches to provide Patrick. While they are starting to do well with some talented juniors, they are really just trying to build their system.. He was taught after all as a child by a legendary Canadian coach.
     
  28. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Ha ha, agalisgv! In this case, I'm referring to Chan's unthinking comments about his parents likely not having to "sacrifice" in China what they "sacrificed" for his skating in Canada. Actually, once again, it seems Chan is a bit confused in his thinking, but that often happens to young adults who are still maturing and gaining a broader perspective.

    What's more "confusing and unclear" to me (need I say ;)) are the scores Chan often receives.

    ETA:
    Thanks for the additional news item Sylvia, indicating when the "stream of consciousness" :p remarks were made (great spin way of putting it). Wonder why it is only now coming out -- the press cycle for the publication?

    ITA bek, and Yukari Lepisto.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2011
  29. Yukari Lepisto

    Yukari Lepisto Active Member

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    Exactly. He got to where he is now because he's born in Canada. His parents are from Canton, China, which is the southern china. There is exactly ZERO chinese figure skaters in the national team that's from the southern part of China until today. If he's born in China, his parents would not even think about having him learn figure skating, because it's just not even part of the option until recent years. there's simply no ice there. that's why s/z wanted to open up a rink in the southern part of china.
     
  30. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    I tend to agree with Sylvia's take that he was thinking of basically getting a free ride financially if he were to skate in China.

    But overall I think his comments were pretty clear--he doesn't feel he's getting enough recognition in Canada, and he thinks if he were competing in China, he would be getting that. Also, I don't think that Chan was being immature. I think he has (and has had for quite some time) a very strong ego. And I think his comments have consistently reflected that over the years. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it is what it is.
     
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