Chan, Lambiel, Lysacek, Joubert, Tak, who had best and poorest career

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Andofanatic, Mar 18, 2013.

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Best and worst career out of Chan, Lambiel, Joubert, Lysacek, Tak

  1. Chan best career, Lysacek worst

    14.0%
  2. Chan best career, Joubert worst

    15.5%
  3. Chan best career, Takahashi worst

    3.4%
  4. Lambiel best career, Lysacek worst

    15.0%
  5. Lambiel best career, Joubert worst

    5.8%
  6. Lambiel best career, Takahashi worst

    1.9%
  7. Takahashi best career, Lysacek worst

    15.5%
  8. Takahashi best career, Joubert worst

    2.4%
  9. Lysacek best career, Takahashi or Lambiel worst

    3.9%
  10. Lysacek best career, Joubert worst

    15.0%
  11. Joubert best career, Takahashi or Lambiel worst

    1.0%
  12. Joubert best career, Lysacek worst

    6.8%
  1. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I don't recall a lot of downgrades back in the early years of the IJS, but it was so long ago, who knows ;)

    No, I did not bring that up. I responded to a post suggesting that Lambiel in 2006 was the closest to having brilliant in all three parts of a three-stage competition by noting that it was a bit more complicated than that. This does not imply that he should not have won, or that the QR should not have been counted, etc. etc. The rules back then called for three segments, Lambiel was the best over three segments. But he was not the best in each of the three segments, which kind of runs counter to the original point I was responding to.
     
  2. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    Ah, but I was responding to moviechick's post: "Yeah, and it was really not common to see skaters actually win worlds with brilliant performances in all 3 phases of competition."

    She didn't say winning with "the best" performances in all 3 phases or being 1st in all 3, but "brilliant performances", which I thought Stephane did.
     
  3. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I know, but I felt it was debatable. The actual result I have no problem with. Personally I liked his 2007 programs better, but obviously he didn't perform them as well as he could have in Tokyo.

    Anyway, I'm glad that both Lambiel and Joubert won world titles. I think that's a fair reflection of their careers and what they did in skating.
     
  4. Meteorlight

    Meteorlight Active Member

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    I can't really bring myself to vote for any of these men as having the worst career, but I'm actually surprised at how many chose Evan as having the worst. He's my least favorite skater of the lot, but to me he's had the most satisfying career. He's basically won everything there was to win and probably has no regrets, unlike some of these other guys on the list - that's gotta count for something.

    Plus, he's the only one in this poll who will (for now anyway) go down in history as OGM. The Olympics may be overrated, but I'll bet good money Chan would be willing to trade at least 2 of his World titles for that OGM (perhaps the two he won controversially?) - like it or not, it IS the ultimate, most coveted prize for most skaters, and I for one do value it over a couple (even a few) world titles (PS. I think Aliona Savchenko agrees with me on that one).
     
  5. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    I dont think Evan is completely satisfied with his career. If he did he wouldnt have tried so hard to come back, even against the odds. If anything Lambiel, Takahashi, Chan, and Joubert all seem more satisfied as they are all retiring on their own terms, and dont seem desperate to have something more to prove. Evan seemed too desperate to carry out an ultimately no hoper comeback for me to believe he is so satisfied with his career as you believe.

    There are some people (not most but a few) who think Michelle Kwan still had a better career than Yu Na Kim despite that Kim trumps her not only at the Olympics but everywhere but one event (Worlds). Well if that is the case then pretty much everyone should think Evan who is trumped by all these guys everywhere but the Olympics (again one event, even if the biggest) hasnt had a better career than any of them.

    I dont think Chan would trade his 2 of his world titles for the Olympic Gold. Maybe if they were spread out more, but as it is winning 3 World titles in a row followed by an Olympic silver is a bigger legacy than winning say the 2011 worlds and 2014 Olympics would ever be. It is a sign of true dominance, something none of these others ever enjoyed. He won almost everything there was to win this quad and will go down as the dominant skater of the quad, despite "only" the Olympic silver. Evan will not go down as the dominant skater of the 2007-2010 quad. That already shows Chan has clearly had the better career, and probably the best of all these guys, like him or not. Lambiel and Takahashi also werent the dominant skater of any quad, but they were alteast big forces over two different quads while you only think of Evan as even a force in the post Turin quad, despite his out of nowhere bronze at the bizarre 2005 worlds.
     
  6. moviechicko_o

    moviechicko_o New Member

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    Satisfaction could be more monetary related though not necessarily career. We all know figure skating is at an ebb in the US and for an American male skater, it's not as easy to just retire comfortably as it used to be. Certainly not the way skaters in Europe and Asia can these days.
     
  7. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    Yes, it is pretty shocking that the poll reflects that Lysacek had a "poorer" career than Joubert. Brian is clearly getting longevity and hottie votes. The porny appreciating public has spoken. ;)
     
  8. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    It seems most think Lysacek or Joubert had the poorest career. I am surprised more dont think Takahashi had the worst. In terms of just results it would probably be him. He has an Olympic medal but it is only a bronze. Joubert has so many World medals and European medals. I think you could argue any of those three as having the least excellent (I prefer that term, poor is ridiculous for any of them) career of these five, but my choice would probably be Takahashi as the least excellent, moreso than Lysacek or Joubert.
     
  9. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    I went with Evan best, as he's the only one who got the ogm, plus a world title and is somewhat lucky to have both being not the most naturally talented skater.

    I picked Brian for worst as he has no oly medals at all, only one wc and really stagnated toward the end, perhaps just staying in too long. He also seemed the most "just a jumper" out of this bunch.

    I'd put Patrick in second as he has an oly silver and 3 WC titles plus all that talent. Dai comes in 3rd as he has less hardware than chan, better artistry IMHO, but also had a bit of that Joubert "stayed beyond his prime" vibe going.
     
  10. shady82

    shady82 New Member

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    In terms of 'Career', the ranking is Chan, Lysacek, Lambiel, Takahashi, and Joubert. In terms of delivery (actual performances, skating level, and should-be titles rather than official titles), Lysacek and Takahashi should swap spots.
     
  11. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    I would say almost the same thing but instead stay in terms of career and just official results/achievements the ranking is Chan, Lambiel, Lysacek, Joubert, Takahashi, but in terms of delivery (actual performances, skating level, and should-be titles rather than official titles) Lysacek and Takahashi should swap spots.
     
  12. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    I am curious to those who honestly think Lysacek has had a better career than Chan (god knows how anyone thinks that) would you also consider Hanyu to have a better career than Chan if he wins the upcoming worlds. He has already basically achieved everything Evan has if he wins there, so by that logic he must have as well.
     
  13. David21

    David21 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I would do so. :)
     
  14. shady82

    shady82 New Member

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    I can't believe I actually would put Lysacek possibly last in delivery, because nothing he produced was really that remarkable. Joubert at least had the quad.

    :lol: Hanyu with one of the best careers, taking advantage of a likely weak post-Olympic Worlds, an Olympic gold with two falls, and gifted PCS this season.
     
  15. moviechicko_o

    moviechicko_o New Member

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    Is Joubert that memorable either? I mean other than his looks lol. I guess The Matrix was okay in a gimmicky way but I honestly feel like he needed the quads to make up for the rest.
     
  16. shady82

    shady82 New Member

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    I originally had Joubert last in both of my rankings but think Lysacek can make a decent case in terms of overall delivery. I agree, Joubert hits the quads and produces a lot of power from his blades, but the rest of his skater is relatively simple and unsophisticated compared to those who rank above him. He could only win gold when his contenders didn't produce. Even when he won in 2007, a flawed Takahashi and Lambiel beat him in the free.
     
  17. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    My point in referencing Hanyu was to show how ridiculous it is IMO to even suggest Lysacek had a better career, even purely results wise, than Chan, just due to the Olympic Gold. If you say that about him you would have to say that about Hanyu if he wins worlds since Hanyu's career is already equal to Evan's if he wins worlds. What would the differences be, Evan would have 1 more world bronze, Hanyu would have a world junior title which Evan never won even in 3 tries, and better showings and more appearances at the grand prix final. Of course most would say it is ridiculous to say Hanyu has a better career than Chan already even if he wins worlds, and that is my point, if it is ridiculous for him, it is also ridiculous to say for Evan.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014
  18. moviechicko_o

    moviechicko_o New Member

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    Well, I think you could also take into account that Lysacek had almost all his success in the easiest quad of the last few quads (06-10). It's kinda sad to even mention this but had Plushenko not staged his last minute comeback that year, Lyscaek would've been 10+ points ahead of the rest of the field there. That field was basically a bunch of great champions past their prime and some very young upstarts.

    Either way, Chan's 3 world titles is a bigger accomplishment than Lysacek's world and Olympic title within in the same year. 3 years in a row shows dominance, even if he didn't deserve 2/3 of them, the judges still saw something in him that persuaded them to gift him so many times so he's certainly had a bigger influence.
     
  19. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Is being memorable only about having the most complicated and sophisticated choreo? Yagudin's Winter is very memorable, and it's neither - for that matter, most of his programs were not complex and sophisticated (and he had a better career than all the guys in this poll). I think being a charismatic performer can also make a skater popular and memorable.

    Re 2007 Worlds, Joubert suffered a foot injury a month earlier and had tendon and ligament damage - he lost training time and couldn't train certain jumps before leaving for Worlds. He did the most difficult program he could given his condition, and did it well (IIRC, with no negative GOEs). Also, I think that had he skated cleanly in 2009, he'd have won gold even if the other contenders did produce. But he didn't, so it doesn't matter.
     
  20. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    Yeah Joubert would have won with all going clean in 2009 perhaps, but that was in a field without Lambiel and Takahashi who both had to take the year off due to injury (and Plushenko but he was retired at that point so I wont count him).

    I dont think Joubert is as good an all around skater as these others. His spins and footwork were not that impressive, his programs were relatively easy between the elements with tons of two footed skating and dance movements or stroking, and his artistry was substandard. However I might still put him above Evan also, since even if Evan is probably more all around, Evan isnt great at anything while Brian is atleast a great jumper.
     
  21. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    Just another point on Hanyu. While I only brought him up to show how crazy it is to even think of Evan having a better chan Patrick, if Hanyu wins the post Olympics worlds with an exceptional performance the field will mean nothing as far as devaluing his win there. After all if he skated perfectly with his current difficulty and technical ability, nobody even in a full field would have beaten him, including Chan.

    Even his Olympic winning competition wasnt bad when you factor in his absolutely incredible short program. He also would have still beaten Evan of 2010 in a head to head competition. Maybe losing the LP by a bit (although his LP was scored 13 points higher than Evan in Vancouver) but winning the SP by so much it wouldnt matter.
     
  22. shady82

    shady82 New Member

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    Yagudin's programs are predictably simpler compared to those on the poll here since he competed under 6.0. He wasn't subjected to CoP demands. His programs are still at a higher level than those of the competitors who finished directly below him (e.g. Eldredge, Goebel).
     
  23. shady82

    shady82 New Member

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    So many performance sets could beat Evan's though. Even Takahashi's performances at Worlds in 2010 would have easily won gold in Torino.
     
  24. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    That is true. In fact ever set of world title winning performances from 2006-2014, minus maybe Chan in 2013, would have beaten Evan for the 2010 Oly gold.
     
  25. kuzytalent

    kuzytalent Active Member

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    How does Hanyu now compare to them? I would rank them as:

    1. Hanyu
    2. Chan
    3. Lambiel
    4. Takahashi
    5. Lysacek
    6. Joubert

    in terms of best careers. Best skaters though would be:

    1. Chan
    2. Lambiel
    3. Takahashi
    4. Hanyu
    5. Joubert
    6. Lysacek
     
  26. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    I cant believe 36 people think Lysacek had the best career. I didnt realize he had so many votes until now. Just wow.
     
  27. moviechicko_o

    moviechicko_o New Member

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    He also has a lot of "worst" votes too though. Pretty much tells you who values the OGM.
     
  28. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    I dont think he is the worst either. Joubert or Takahashi is the worst. Chan, Hanyu, and probably Lambiel all had better careers than Lysacek, but I could see arguing Lambiel. So Evan is both way overrated and way underrated in the same poll.

    I notice now Takahashi also has 36 best career votes. That is even crazier. Chan and maybe Lambiel are the only ones who should get any votes.
     
  29. beyoncerocks

    beyoncerocks Member

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    I give out the following points:

    Olympic gold- 4 points
    Olympic silver- 3 points
    Olympic bronze- 1 point

    World gold- 1 point

    the rest- hard to say, less than 1 though

    Chan is the easy winner of this group. Lambiel collects 5 points from Olympic medals/world titles just like Evan. Since they both have 4 Olympic/world medals and Lambiel has an extra grand prix final title I give Lambiel the slight edge. Joubert probably 4th with his 6 world medals. Takahashi bringing up the rear in last place.
     
  30. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    1. Chan
    2. Hanyu (since he seems to have entered the discussion)
    3. Lysacek/Lambiel (tied)
    5. Joubert
    6. Takahashi

    Just careers, nothing about skating ability neccessarily.